DEANB:
Good thats saves us wasting time looking for that one then !
The trouble is after 40 years people’s memories i think become a bit confused sometimes which is fully understandable. One can only re search trucks that people tell you about ? Most of the people that tell you about lorries are in there 70s/80s now and obviously they are not trying to
give you false information,but things sometimes are not what they think they were. This is understandable with regard to steel cab MW5 & MW7’s . Some people refer to them as Belgium/Continental and European ■■?
Well you have a point and after a while you only recall the highlights with a loss of specific details.
On your earlier input/feedback with regard to Groen’s NGC-series and De Vos’ B-series, I strongly doubt if De Vos bought a second hand NGC from Groen or whatever livery, so that leaves it (for me) to 2x NGC for Groen and 2x NGC for De Vos. On the B-series it’s known that De Vos had 3x but with flat (Jennings) sleeper-roof, where the van Rumpt’s has an official sleeper as per 1977.
Just remarks and/or food for thought, with compliments for your sources and pictures
With regards to Groen having a 2nd NGC (rather than De Vos having a 3rd one) I am inclined to agree with ERF-Continental that this is more likely, especially in the light of your Groen driver’s insistence that there were two of them. Robert
robert1952:
With regards to Groen having a 2nd NGC (rather than De Vos having a 3rd one) I am inclined to agree with ERF-Continental that this is more likely, especially in the light of your Groen driver’s insistence that there were two of them. Robert
Like i said when i posted the picture it looked like a Groen lorry to me. However the person that sent me that picture tells me its definately De Vos ,i even queried it asking him if it was not a Groen truck.He said “No” and he is trying to get more information from the person he got the photo from.
I then emailed the picture to the driver of the Groen 16-37-FB truck. He said “No” its not a Groen truck,and that Groen only had 2 ERF’s his one, and the B series one i put the photo on of that was later sold to Van Rumpt. I am only the messenger here and can only tell you what i am being told.
Another lead i have been given is that the Comart looking ERF was UK registered and was from the Leeds Depot. Drivers name was Doone ? This has come from 2 seperate french drivers .I have asked if they can find out any more information ?
robert1952:
With regards to Groen having a 2nd NGC (rather than De Vos having a 3rd one) I am inclined to agree with ERF-Continental that this is more likely, especially in the light of your Groen driver’s insistence that there were two of them. Robert
Like i said when i posted the picture it looked like a Groen lorry to me. However the person that sent me that picture tells me its definately De Vos ,i even queried it asking him if it was not a Groen truck.He said “No” and he is trying to get more information from the person he got the photo from.
I then emailed the picture to the driver of the Groen 16-37-FB truck. He said “No” its not a Groen truck,and that Groen only had 2 ERF’s his one, and the B series one i put the photo on of that was later sold to Van Rumpt. I am only the messenger here and can only tell you what i am being told.
Not a problem, Dean: we can simply retain the ‘new’ 22-44-■■ unit as a possible Groen or De Vos lorry until we hear more refined info. Robert
DEANB:
Another lead i have been given is that the Comart looking ERF was UK registered and was from the Leeds Depot. Drivers name was Doone ? This has come from 2 seperate french drivers .I have asked if they can find out any more information ?
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It would be nice to know more about this one. John (‘Saviem’) informed me that it was French-registered before passing to a Belgian operator. Let’s see what transpires. Robert
It’s a ‘new’ picture, that one - I haven’t seen it before. I’d say that was Vermeulen’s 34-UB-99 / 919-99-HB (it was re-registered in '80, remember). Robert
robert1952:
With regards to Groen having a 2nd NGC (rather than De Vos having a 3rd one) I am inclined to agree with ERF-Continental that this is more likely, especially in the light of your Groen driver’s insistence that there were two of them. Robert
Like i said when i posted the picture it looked like a Groen lorry to me. However the person that sent me that picture tells me its definately De Vos ,i even queried it asking him if it was not a Groen truck.He said “No” and he is trying to get more information from the person he got the photo from.
I then emailed the picture to the driver of the Groen 16-37-FB truck. He said “No” its not a Groen truck,and that Groen only had 2 ERF’s his one, and the B series one i put the photo on of that was later sold to Van Rumpt. I am only the messenger here and can only tell you what i am being told.
Now you are so actively informing about leads and memories of (ex-)drivers/operators, perhaps you and/or your network know more (hence a confirmation) that Damco-GG Transport from Rotterdam (Spaanse Polder) had NGC’s operational for ICI-containers. We know that Cees Willemstein was one of the subbies with his NGC in Damco-GG Transport livery. Attached a picture showing the trailer carrying some of the ICI-containers.
Back on page 80 of this thread, ‘ERF-C’ mentions the possibility of an NGC at Wagner/Jumet/Gosseliers in Belgium (they being Caterpillar’s main freight-forwarder, apparently). He says that the CDB files carry no mention of Wagner but that ‘Alexander thinks that…’ He was referring to ‘Entourage’ who used to post on here, and who seemed very knowledgeable about Belgian transport of the period. So I am adding this lead to my list of ‘rumoured’ ERFs.
‘ERF-C’ also mentions a possible NGC at Gemappe. Anyone know if this leads is strong enough to be register under the ‘rumoured’ section on my version of the NGC Register? I spent hours searching at the time and came up with nothing - but that doesn’t mean there’s nothing out there! Robert
robert1952:
With regards to Groen having a 2nd NGC (rather than De Vos having a 3rd one) I am inclined to agree with ERF-Continental that this is more likely, especially in the light of your Groen driver’s insistence that there were two of them. Robert
Like i said when i posted the picture it looked like a Groen lorry to me. However the person that sent me that picture tells me its definately De Vos ,i even queried it asking him if it was not a Groen truck.He said “No” and he is trying to get more information from the person he got the photo from.
I then emailed the picture to the driver of the Groen 16-37-FB truck. He said “No” its not a Groen truck,and that Groen only had 2 ERF’s his one, and the B series one i put the photo on of that was later sold to Van Rumpt. I am only the messenger here and can only tell you what i am being told.
Now you are so actively informing about leads and memories of (ex-)drivers/operators, perhaps you and/or your network know more (hence a confirmation) that Damco-GG Transport from Rotterdam (Spaanse Polder) had NGC’s operational for ICI-containers. We know that Cees Willemstein was one of the subbies with his NGC in Damco-GG Transport livery. Attached a picture showing the trailer carrying some of the ICI-containers.
Had a word with Wim and he confirms that the only NGC was the Willemstein one.
No need to disguise it , there are flats & fridges on thread already, so a tanker would not be too out of place , it fits the axle configuration criteria .
With regard to the Calor NGC, I have asked questions on the Calor thread. At the same time, ‘ERF-C’ has reminded us of connections on the LHD 5MW thread. I’m just pulling a few strands of information together here. On the Calor thread ‘IAC60’ mentions that Imperial Continental Gas was at that time the holding company which owned both Calor and Estra - hence the link. It may be that they also owned Peethultra and Coulier (which in turn owned Wauters - as ERF-C pointed out). If this can be shown to be the case, then we may find that the Calor/Estra NGC is also the one used on the ICI trips, as apparently it didn’t always pull a tanker I’m told. Sorry to cross threads, but that’s the way it is with a forum like this. At least this gives us something to chew on. Robert
Just to refine the ^^^above; ‘5thdragoon’ on the Calor thread posted this today:
To clear a point Van Ess was never a Calor owned business, it was a joint operating venture where Calor supplied some kit and Pete van Ess managed it, it was always an enigmatic partnership. Imperial Continental who acquired Calor closed down Calor International but retained Coulier, until at some stage it was disposed of with a management buyout.
I won’t do any more thread crossing for now, but keep an eye on the Calor and 5MW threads for a day or two. Cheers, Robert
