Has anyone got any experience of getting used engine oil or coolant analysed by oil companies.
Have read that it works similar to a blood test in a human and can tell a lot about condition of oil and the engine-for example can tell if coolant or fuel is going into oil and helps avoid expensive engine repair bills by spotting problems early on.
Have heard its expensive in the short term but some operators reckon its cost effective long term.
Has anybody got any experience of using this service from oil companies?
CALUM:
Has anyone got any experience of getting used engine oil or coolant analysed by oil companies.
Have read that it works similar to a blood test in a human and can tell a lot about condition of oil and the engine-for example can tell if coolant or fuel is going into oil and helps avoid expensive engine repair bills by spotting problems early on.
Have heard its expensive in the short term but some operators reckon its cost effective long term.
Has anybody got any experience of using this service from oil companies?
Millers Oils in Brighouse used to offer this service. However it seems they took over Falcon Lubricants in 2009 and the website seems to have gone awry.
Falcon offer this service from the same address so maybe Millers have taken on the mantel of Falcon
I seem to remember that either Volvo or at least Brian Yeardley and possibly Bowker used this service and were testing engines and oils in service
When I had the dump trucks I always used a company to sample the oil for engines and transmissions, I am sure it was Morris’s of Shrewsbury who did the analysis, it’s a good idea as it does pick up what the contaminants in the oil are - metal is very bad! I am surprised that truck operators don’t do this as a matter of course as it could save a huge repair bill in the long term.
Hi CALUM
SGS Vernolab do this kind of work.
Maybe it might be worth giving them (and some of their competitors 
) a ring to see whether oil sampling is worthwhile in your case?
As for actual experience of oil sampling… 'fraid I can’t help you with that mate.
dieseldave:
Hi CALUM
Maybe it might be worth giving them (and some of their competitors
As for actual experience of oil sampling… 'fraid I can’t help you with that mate.
We did it for a while to see the mileage that the oil could be left in the engine.
10.000km more or less is for big companies a massive difference in cost.
All the trucks in the trail had been fittet with a valve on the sump instead of a plug, this made it easy to take a spill free sample and change the oil without the splatters.
we checked over 50 vehicles every 2 weeks for a year, after that we didn’t use it anymore.
It wise to do it if you change to “other” fuels to see how the oil get affected, soem feuls give a rapid rise in acidity
Oil sampling is very popular over in Nth America, they use it in conjunction with oil bypass filters and get hundreds of thousands of miles from their oil, the by pass filters go down to 1 micron and need changing every 15-20,000miles, but as long as the oil is good it can stay in.
The samples look for things like wear metals and fuel/coolant contamination, to give you an idea on the state of the engine components, oxidation and nitration which give you an idea of the wear in the cylinders/pistons and TBN (total base number) which tells you the condition of the oil itself.
Personally I think it’s a great idea, but it’s only as good as the lab doing the tests, to ensure they’re doing their job right I would send in four samples, one as it came out of the engine, one with some diesel in it, one with coolant in it and a fourth untouched one sent in a week after the first three, all the results for wear metals, oxidation and nitration should be the same throughout, but the ones with the fuel and coolant should show that, if you get different values then the results are worthless.
I would also sample any used truck’s oil before I bought it (as long as I’d found a decent lab of course) that could stop you buying a lemon 
newmercman:
Oil sampling is very popular over in Nth America, they use it in conjunction with oil bypass filters and get hundreds of thousands of miles from their oil, the by pass filters go down to 1 micron and need changing every 15-20,000miles, but as long as the oil is good it can stay in.The samples look for things like wear metals and fuel/coolant contamination, to give you an idea on the state of the engine components, oxidation and nitration which give you an idea of the wear in the cylinders/pistons and TBN (total base number) which tells you the condition of the oil itself.
Personally I think it’s a great idea, but it’s only as good as the lab doing the tests, to ensure they’re doing their job right I would send in four samples, one as it came out of the engine, one with some diesel in it, one with coolant in it and a fourth untouched one sent in a week after the first three, all the results for wear metals, oxidation and nitration should be the same throughout, but the ones with the fuel and coolant should show that, if you get different values then the results are worthless.
I would also sample any used truck’s oil before I bought it (as long as I’d found a decent lab of course) that could stop you buying a lemon
Exactly the reason for this page.
■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ … lysis.html
I was always wary of these Fleetguard systems with extra long drain oils, having been previously told to change the oil regularly because it was cheaper than an engine.
All of a sudden the price of oil wasn’t cheap. I had an old 141 for a while and whilst cleaning the spinner I found all these traces of metal and gunge and decided it was time for it to be on its way.
I’m with you Malc, oil is cheaper than metal, but accurate oil analysis can be very useful in a preventative maintenance programme, for instance certain metals only appear in certain places within an engine, if you find copper in a sample the chances are your oil cooler is on its way out, you can then change it before it goes on the side of the road costing you a fortune in call out, tow in and late delivery charges.
It will also show up cross contamination, diesel or coolant in your oil will totally murder your bearings, I think Europe is way behind the Yanks in this respect, they really look after their kit out there, oil analysis is a very important part of this.
There’s a company OPS, Oil Purification Services, their strapline is ‘Change your thinking, not your oil’ it sums it up really, increasing costs and stagnant rates mean that saving money is becoming ever more important, oil analysis and bypass systems have a double whammy, you don’t throw good oil away and you always have clean oil in your engine, the analysis can save a fortune in needless roadside breakdowns too.
With the prices of top quality engine oil, it makes defiantly a big difference to be able to use the oil longer. It’s used in the formula one to check on wear and tear and if well done gives a brilliant picture of expected cost and breakdowns.
How do you sample overthere Newmercman? from the bottom or do you ■■■■ it from the dipstick pipe.
When we did a trail with different oils, we where instructed to take the samples from the bottom of a warm engine, that had been standing for 30 min to get any sediment with it.
Improved filtering, and higher qualities of lubricants gives a better lifespan for any engines, funny enough different drivers gives different readings, especialy with diesel content in the oil.
Them Fleetguard filters, where that the ones where the element looked like a toilet rol?
Oil sampling is done alot in the oilfields, where the engines can run for days without a shutdown. here are some links that may be of help.
howcleanisyouroil.com/CONTACTS
fluidlife.com/serv_basic.html
The Vacuum Pump is used to extract samples from a dipstick or non-pressurized system. When extracting the sample, it is important to use a new piece of tubing in order to avoid sample contamination. It is also important to have an appropriate container and follow all the directions thoroughly to ensure that the oil sample is representative of all the oil in the machine.
Step 1 – Carefully unpack the POLARIS Laboratoriesâ„¢ Sample Kit, place material on a clean surface and fill out sample jar label. Measure tube to the length of reservoir tank or dipstick, add 6 inches to the measurement and place mark on the tube.
Step 2 – Insert the tube through the head of the vacuum pump and tighten lock ring. The tube should extend about 1 inch beyond the base of the vacuum pump head.
Step 3 – Screw in the white sample jar to the bottom of the vacuum pump and tighten securely. Place tube into the oil, retaining tube up to the mark on the tube.
Step 4 – Push and pull the vacuum pump plunger a few times to start the suction. Continue pumping until sample jar is 3/4 full. Hold the pump upright in order to avoid contamination.
Step 5 – Unscrew the sample jar from the vacuum pump and place the lid back on the sample jar and tighten securely. Drain remaining fluid out of tube into tank and remove tube from fill port. Unscrew locking ring on vacuum pump, remove and properly dispose used tube. Place the sample jar label on sample jar and the appropriate return-mailing label on black return mailer. Send the sample to the lab immediately
polarislabs1.com/oil-analysis.php
Hi, yeah i agree with newmercman,sampling oil regularly is the best. I have a CAT Engine, and only use CAT filters. the best place to start is asking the manufacture, or the dealer, then, find a wholesaler or distributor for oils, or even look up say ESSO, or other make of oil in yellow pages, and ask them.
When you find them, ask them how they do the samples, and ask if it a bench top service. over here, we can get our trucks done at most places that offer oil samples. but the are the one’s that do a simple sample. the places like Newmercman said, OPS. they do a in-depth service. more details, that when you first get the sample back, looks so confusing, but normally you get a number to call to talk about it, so your can understand it more. Don’t take the first sample as that is what the engine needs a complete overhaul, do about 3. That way, you can a patten start to develop.
The way i get my oil, is when you pull the plug to drain. not straight away, but when it starts to slow a little, you can do it from the dipstick. sure. and thats a goos one too. probably better than the way i do mine.
Plus, try to stick to the same mileage when doing the sample and oil change, and the same filters too. it gives you a more accurate recording.
I do this helps.
Wayne.
caledoniandream:
dieseldave:
Hi CALUM
Maybe it might be worth giving them (and some of their competitors
As for actual experience of oil sampling… 'fraid I can’t help you with that mate.
We did it for a while to see the mileage that the oil could be left in the engine.
10.000km more or less is for big companies a massive difference in cost.
All the trucks in the trail had been fittet with a valve on the sump instead of a plug, this made it easy to take a spill free sample and change the oil without the splatters.
we checked over 50 vehicles every 2 weeks for a year, after that we didn’t use it anymore.
It wise to do it if you change to “other” fuels to see how the oil get affected, soem feuls give a rapid rise in acidity
What conclusions did you come to after your trial and why did you stop with oil analysis Caledonian?
What conclusions did you come to after your trial and why did you stop with oil analysis Caledonian?
we did it to determ what influence the the price / quality of oil had on the wear of engines and gearboxes and also to see if we could extend the service intervals on the vehilces.
We had a fleet that time of over 700 tractor units, and any small saving would be massive due to the size of fleet.
We used 5 different oil manufactures, new FH 12’s, F12 with more than 600K on the clock and F10/F12 with a million K’s on the clock, aswel as Daf 95 420, Mercedes Actros.
When we got our answers after a year of intensive testing, we choose our oil and set our service mileage.
The test route is a very expensive way and oil sampling on such a volumes (100+ trucks) is very labour intensive and costly.
If you are owner of a small fleet, I’m convinced that the benefits pay off in the long term, but on a large fleet are the cost to high against the benefits, we can probaly write a couple of engines off, for the cost of regular sampling.
caledoniandream:
What conclusions did you come to after your trial and why did you stop with oil analysis Caledonian?
we did it to determ what influence the the price / quality of oil had on the wear of engines and gearboxes and also to see if we could extend the service intervals on the vehilces.
We had a fleet that time of over 700 tractor units, and any small saving would be massive due to the size of fleet.
We used 5 different oil manufactures, new FH 12’s, F12 with more than 600K on the clock and F10/F12 with a million K’s on the clock, aswel as Daf 95 420, Mercedes Actros.
When we got our answers after a year of intensive testing, we choose our oil and set our service mileage.
The test route is a very expensive way and oil sampling on such a volumes (100+ trucks) is very labour intensive and costly.
If you are owner of a small fleet, I’m convinced that the benefits pay off in the long term, but on a large fleet are the cost to high against the benefits, we can probaly write a couple of engines off, for the cost of regular sampling.
What interval did you come up with after analysing the data and did it differ from make to make?..the Mercedes Actros was the first to exceed the 100,000km manufacturer’s recommended oil change interval if I’m not mistaken? Volvo F10/12’s used to run about 30,000km oil changes?
if a big firm thinks oil sampling is a waste of money the conclusions quite clear to me!!
spend your money on clean engine/gear oil not testing dirty old oil
from my point of veiw when an engine can only hold 6/8 gallons of oil the said oil can only stay at its best for so long as dirt and deposits are absorbed the oil quality and ability to cleen must decrease, you dont need a boffin with a test tube to tell you that!!
moose
Moose:
if a big firm thinks oil sampling is a waste of money the conclusions quite clear to me!!
spend your money on clean engine/gear oil not testing dirty old oil
from my point of veiw when an engine can only hold 6/8 gallons of oil the said oil can only stay at its best for so long as dirt and deposits are absorbed the oil quality and ability to cleen must decrease, you dont need a boffin with a test tube to tell you that!!
moose
It’s not that blach and white, the sampling tell a hell lot of things, wear and tear, over fueling, coolant leaks, filter and oil condition, and warns you beforehand that things can go wrong or expected to go wrong and you can take action on that.
This can give you as operator a fighting chance to save cost, plan or do unplannad maintenance.
For a big fleet is the cost against the benefit less, also in general are bigger fleets easier to absorb the cost of a rebuild.
What interval did you come up with after analysing the data and did it differ from make to make?..the Mercedes Actros was the first to exceed the 100,000km manufacturer’s recommended oil change interval if I’m not mistaken? Volvo F10/12’s used to run about 30,000km oil changes?
F10 / F12 where put on 50.000km, FH12 onto 70.000 later 90.000km, FH/FM13 on 90.000km, depending also on PTO time and long or short distance. This is tanker transport only. And yes there is a difference in oil, however the big players are coming very close to each other, But we are a big believer in the products of a Royal Dutch oil company so the choice went to them.
F10 / F12 where put on 50.000km, FH12 onto 70.000 later 90.000km, FH/FM13 on 90.000km, depending also on PTO time and long or short distance. This is tanker transport only. And yes there is a difference in oil, however the big players are coming very close to each other, But we are a big believer in the products of a Royal Dutch oil company so the choice went to them.
Any particular grade or viscosity you favour?..As a matter of interest,what interval did ye put the Mercedes Benz Actros on?
Riverstick:
F10 / F12 where put on 50.000km, FH12 onto 70.000 later 90.000km, FH/FM13 on 90.000km, depending also on PTO time and long or short distance. This is tanker transport only. And yes there is a difference in oil, however the big players are coming very close to each other, But we are a big believer in the products of a Royal Dutch oil company so the choice went to them.
Any particular grade or viscosity you favour?..As a matter of interest,what interval did ye put the Mercedes Benz Actros on?
RIMULA R3 X 15W-40, The Actrosses fell out before the end of test (Re-call MB) The current Actrosses run with the Volvos in schedule. There won’t be any new MB’s anyway 