Not quite a truck based question but since I’ve been a member on here forever I’ll be cheeky and ask.
I resigned today from my current role in a senior management job for a national company. I’ve been self employed for years and put that down as my last employer on the reference section.
I’ve worked for the company for 5 months however only now have they decided to check references and they say that they cannot accept a self employed reference and therefore resign or be sacked.
I know I have few rights as I’m under 2 years service but has anyone experience of constructive dismissal or knows where I can turn?
I hand in my keys tomorrow and get a month garden leave as they wouldn’t let me work my notice.
Not quite a truck based question but since I’ve been a member on here forever I’ll be cheeky and ask.
I resigned today from my current role in a senior management job for a national company. I’ve been self employed for years and put that down as my last employer on the reference section.
I’ve worked for the company for 5 months however only now have they decided to check references and they say that they cannot accept a self employed reference and therefore resign or be sacked.
I know I have few rights as I’m under 2 years service but has anyone experience of constructive dismissal or knows where I can turn?
I hand in my keys tomorrow and get a month garden leave as they wouldn’t let me work my notice.
For Constructive Dismissal you need a minimum of 2 years employment, you can always try ACAS for free legal advice, probably better than asking on here to be honest.
Hi, the bottom line is that they can dismiss you for ALMOST any reason they wish within the first two years.
The crux of your question is why they want you to resign or be sacked? I am guessing that you have BOTH come to the decision that this role isn’t for you?
Looking to the future, it would be better if you resigned as you can talk your way around this at future interviews. Getting sacked always looks worse to a future employer.
You can’t go for constructive dismissal unless you have been dismissed (you haven’t), and only for particular reasons within the two year period. Reasons include: Whistleblowing, Health & safety issues or ■■■, race and religion reasons.
Take the month off with pay, find something that you want to do and put this behind you.
Honked:
Hi, the bottom line is that they can dismiss you for ALMOST any reason they wish within the first two years.
The crux of your question is why they want you to resign or be sacked? I am guessing that you have BOTH come to the decision that this role isn’t for you?
Looking to the future, it would be better if you resigned as you can talk your way around this at future interviews. Getting sacked always looks worse to a future employer.
You can’t go for constructive dismissal unless you have been dismissed (you haven’t), and only for particular reasons within the two year period. Reasons include: Whistleblowing, Health & safety issues or ■■■, race and religion reasons.
Take the month off with pay, find something that you want to do and put this behind you.
Good luck in the future.
Thats what I was thinking. I’ve spoken to ACAS who said I couldn’t do much other than statutory rights if they were applicable.
I’ve resigned and hand my stuff in tomorrow, hey ho!
It sounds like they wanted rid and the reference issue is just a convenient excuse. If you were any good at your job, surely they’d have overlooked it?
Sorry for the brutal honesty but I’m not going to dress it up and pretend you’re now unemployed for another reason like your (ex)employer has.
You’ve no rights, you’re basically on probation for 24 months after starting a new job nowadays. If the reference issue hadn’t been dug up, they’d have found another reason, any reason, and there’d still be nothing you could do about it.
Move on and focus your energies on being a better manager.
Honked:
You can’t go for constructive dismissal unless you have been dismissed (you haven’t), and only for particular reasons within the two year period.
Constructive Dismissal does not mean you have been dismissed, it means you have resigned against your will due to your employers conduct.
Thought I would just clear that up, so no one gets confused!
You certainly can be constructively dismissed within two years, it’s a myth that within two years you have no rights. The difference is within that two year period they can give any excuse and not have to justify themselves. So for example they can say the are getting rid of you because you are rubbish at your job, when really it is because they are being sexist or racist or any illegal reason and just can’t say that. However if you can prove that the reason is illegal then you have the same rights as anyone else, but doing it is something else.
(this is all from a discussion I had about sacking a member of staff that had only worked for me for 6 months with our solicitor).
its pretty much as others have said unless you have some form of disability and you could claim on those grounds (the 2 year rule doesn’t apply to that).
otherwise I would just start looking you have 4 weeks!
Given that they would’ve been asked for previous employers references and they supplied references which were not from employers then the OP hasn’t a leg to stand on. In fact if they had submitted references and presented them as being from previous employers there is actually a criminal offence that has been committed of “obtaining pecunary advantage by deception” which is now classed as Fraud when the Theft Act 1968 was replaced by the Fraud Act 2006, in particular it is now classed as Fraud by false representation and it is also an offence if the OP merely IMPLIED that the references were from previous employers.
The employer has the right to recover all wages paid to date from the OP should it come to light that the OP had presented them as or implied the references were from previous employers.
There are some things you don’t fight because to do so is more than likely to end up with you coming out worse as things come to light and this is one of them.
Road2ruin:
You certainly can be constructively dismissed within two years, it’s a myth that within two years you have no rights. The difference is within that two year period they can give any excuse and not have to justify themselves. So for example they can say the are getting rid of you because you are rubbish at your job, when really it is because they are being sexist or racist or any illegal reason and just can’t say that. However if you can prove that the reason is illegal then you have the same rights as anyone else, but doing it is something else.
(this is all from a discussion I had about sacking a member of staff that had only worked for me for 6 months with our solicitor).
That would be wrongful/unfair dismissal, two completely different things in employment law.
They seem to be clutching at straws to get rid of you and are using this as an excuse. Quite possibly you are obviously better at the job than any of the management above you and they feel threatened. Whatever happens HR department have clearly failed abysmally in not reading your application form and asking you any relevant questions at interview. AFI understand it is usual for a self employed person to request a reference from their accountant for job application forms. This would run something like: Mr Joe Bloggs has been trading for the last 10 years as a self employed whatever. His books have always been presented to me in a professional manner and I have never had any issues regarding his manner of trading which has always been irreproachable.
I have no legal knowledge whatsoever.
If you stated at application and interview stages that you were previously self employed, surely they offered you the post with the understanding that you couldn’t provide a reference from a previous employer. So what has changed in the past five months?
Sounds dodgy to me. Get proper legal advice.
Well the regional manager and the rest of the senior management team have all fought for me to stay, it’s just HR in London who are being difficult.
I made it quite clear on my application, at interview, at second interview and at resubmission of references (They lost a ton of paperwork). It was never a secret that I had been self employed for years.
I’m not sure where Conor has got his advice from but I daren’t say that I’ve not done anything wrong here?
I apply for a job, tell you I was self employed, you give me the job, I work for you for 5 months and it takes that long for the HR team to check the references they should have checked before I was offered the job. I was a month into the role before my contract even arrived. It was dated 1st September and I started around 20th July!
Contraflow:
It sounds like they wanted rid and the reference issue is just a convenient excuse. If you were any good at your job, surely they’d have overlooked it?
Sorry for the brutal honesty but I’m not going to dress it up and pretend you’re now unemployed for another reason like your (ex)employer has.
You’ve no rights, you’re basically on probation for 24 months after starting a new job nowadays. If the reference issue hadn’t been dug up, they’d have found another reason, any reason, and there’d still be nothing you could do about it.
Move on and focus your energies on being a better manager.
CF. I agree with you on almost anything normally. Not this.
Do you have enough details from the sparse post to make such an assertion? I don’t. Companies force seek to force people to leave for all sorts of devious, self serving reasons. The bit you added about the 24 months is useful to his question, the rest is conjecture.
Well,…
You cood say they sacked you when they heard you are Gay.
Its now at same Powerfull as if a Disability were the Reason.
Not sure how many would go for that,just to stay in Job.
Do you have an employment contract, this may be an avenue to look down. Stat employment rights are one thing breach of contract is another.
Legal advice would be good but one has to weigh up if it’s worth felching about with this.
Consider how will this affect your next employer if references are sought.