I’m not trying to tell them what to do at all I’m a guest in there country I work to there ways and live by there laws I have no right to do anything else.
The fact is you go in any truckstop here or pick up any of the trade press you hear the same moans and groans. Fuel going up but the rates not going up in line with them. The emissions controls making trucks more complicated which is a massive problem as I can testify as I dropped two weeks work last month with breakdowns although that is partly the way American garages seems to to work. Make the Spanish and Italians look hard working lol. Which meant me been hit in the pocket due to mileage pay but that’s the way it is do I have no right to moan.
Increased legislation the e log is bound to replace log books at some point. Which will hit a lot of drivers as especaly us drivers often get left for hours and days waiting for loads.
Carryfast:
kr79:
Hauliers are going skint as they are not getting paid enough to do the job. It doesn’t matter if you do 100 miles a day or 1000 miles a day if you don’t cover the costs you will end up skint.
Say your truck costs 200quid a day to cover the drivers wages ni contributions tax insurance finance etc plus fuel on top you use £100 of fuel on locals and earn 400 quid your doing ok
Same truck goes up the road uses 300 quid of fuel you get 550 you are making less profit and that’s how it is in the low margin sectors like boxes.
Scrap fuel duty the rates will drop. Boxes ferry trailers subbing for forwarders who advertise in the press is a waste of time as there is over capacity as to many people think I want a truck il buy a tractor and maybe a skelly and go into boxes or traction as its easy to get started and are happy to pull a drivers wage if that not a wage plus additional renu,elation to cover there time on paperwork maybe doing some maintenance 4 weeks paid holiday what an employee gets.
Christ I sound like Rob K here.You’re right you do sound just like RobK there.
Here’s an idea.Why don’t you tell those redundant drivers all that having first told them that it doesn’t matter to you because you’ve zb’d off to a place where they have a more road transport friendly government and where diesel costs ( a lot ) less than £1 per litre.Although you’re currently trying to explain to the Canadian government why it should put British levels of road fuel taxation onto the Canadian road transport industry,together with all the other uk/euro type bs regs,in order to make their industry even stronger as long a rates are increased to match.
The thing is here you haven’t got the Eastern European threat say if Mexican trucks could run all across North America that would screw it. The Canadians are lucky as a lot of yam firms won’t cross the border.
I wouldn’t wish any man to lose his job either. It’s like when people say I hope stobart goes skint at the end of the day he pays a lot of people’s wages and if they went pop it ain’t the directors of to the dhss.
kr79:
I’m not trying to tell them what to do at all I’m a guest in there country I work to there ways and live by there laws I have no right to do anything else.
I already knew that it was meant in the sarcastic sense. 
So are you saying that the Canadian road transport industry would,in your view,be better off with British levels of road fuel taxation and prices,together with all the other euro type bs regs,so long as rates were increased to match,or not 
.
kr79:
Carryfast:
kr79:
Hauliers are going skint as they are not getting paid enough to do the job. It doesn’t matter if you do 100 miles a day or 1000 miles a day if you don’t cover the costs you will end up skint.
Say your truck costs 200quid a day to cover the drivers wages ni contributions tax insurance finance etc plus fuel on top you use £100 of fuel on locals and earn 400 quid your doing ok
Same truck goes up the road uses 300 quid of fuel you get 550 you are making less profit and that’s how it is in the low margin sectors like boxes.
Scrap fuel duty the rates will drop. Boxes ferry trailers subbing for forwarders who advertise in the press is a waste of time as there is over capacity as to many people think I want a truck il buy a tractor and maybe a skelly and go into boxes or traction as its easy to get started and are happy to pull a drivers wage if that not a wage plus additional renu,elation to cover there time on paperwork maybe doing some maintenance 4 weeks paid holiday what an employee gets.
Christ I sound like Rob K here.You’re right you do sound just like RobK there.
Here’s an idea.Why don’t you tell those redundant drivers all that having first told them that it doesn’t matter to you because you’ve zb’d off to a place where they have a more road transport friendly government and where diesel costs ( a lot ) less than £1 per litre.Although you’re currently trying to explain to the Canadian government why it should put British levels of road fuel taxation onto the Canadian road transport industry,together with all the other uk/euro type bs regs,in order to make their industry even stronger as long a rates are increased to match.
The thing is here you haven’t got the Eastern European threat say if Mexican trucks could run all across North America that would screw it. The Canadians are lucky as a lot of yam firms won’t cross the border.
I wouldn’t wish any man to lose his job either. It’s like when people say I hope stobart goes skint at the end of the day he pays a lot of people’s wages and if they went pop it ain’t the directors of to the dhss.
In this case,according to the news reports,it wasn’t the east european competition issue that did it.It also wasn’t the issue of low rates.It was the issue of customer resistance to sending a container load throughout the country by road instead of rail at current rates,let alone higher rates,that did it.
Are Elite in this position because of low rates and rail utilisation as some have mentioned?
I ask this because there are container hauliers working for the same Lines for the same rates who are operating a profitable business, there are also container hauliers who make a decent living on railhead work, again on the same tariffs
It’s true that things are tight and there isn’t much margin to be made on containers but some managements are achieving and some are not, so is the issue solely with the rates?
stringy:
Are Elite in this position because of low rates and rail utilisation as some have mentioned?I ask this because there are container hauliers working for the same Lines for the same rates who are operating a profitable business, there are also container hauliers who make a decent living on railhead work, again on the same tariffs
It’s true that things are tight and there isn’t much margin to be made on containers but some managements are achieving and some are not, so is the issue solely with the rates?
It’s obvious that the only way in which intermodal journeys can be made to pay is by creating an artificially hostile trading environment in regards to long haul container movements by road and by creating an equally artificial trading environment in regards to unsustainable rates to compensate for the under utilisation of trucks covering the short haul road sector of intermodal road/rail transport.
I think cases such as this one are just the tip of the iceberg,in regards to what is going to follow in the medium to longer term.Unless the road transport industry gets it’s head out of the sand and starts fighting it’s corner regarding the threat which government transport policy,concerning the switch of freight from road to rail,presents to those employed in it.
stringy:
Are Elite in this position because of low rates and rail utilisation as some have mentioned?I ask this because there are container hauliers working for the same Lines for the same rates who are operating a profitable business, there are also container hauliers who make a decent living on railhead work, again on the same tariffs
It’s true that things are tight and there isn’t much margin to be made on containers but some managements are achieving and some are not, so is the issue solely with the rates?
I’ve no idea of Elites circumstances, so can only guess. Like you say, they’re operating the same as everyone else, looks like they’re going to pick up and go again. There problems could be anything like someone changing their credit terms on fuel, vehicles etc… leaving them unable to operate.
Carryfast:
If I read the report right it actually said that other container haulage firms are also at risk and it also seems to confirm my view of the situation that it’s all about loss of work to rail ( because rail has an obvious trading advantage ) not haulage firms needing to put their rates up.Which in that trading environment would be suicide.If the loss of the long distance sector isn’t a problem and assuming that the short haul intermodal sector is so lucrative as you seem to think,then it’s obvious that the trucks and redundant drivers in this case would have all been employed doing that at higher rates than they were getting on longer haul work and obviously problem solved.
Respectfully, you’re away with the fairies. Without mentioning a primeminster, country, year or political party show me where the loss to rail is in the container trade. Not where it might be in the future but where it is now, say over the last 5 years ? Because i’m sure you’re making it up as you go along.
Mike-C:
Carryfast:
If I read the report right it actually said that other container haulage firms are also at risk and it also seems to confirm my view of the situation that it’s all about loss of work to rail ( because rail has an obvious trading advantage ) not haulage firms needing to put their rates up.Which in that trading environment would be suicide.If the loss of the long distance sector isn’t a problem and assuming that the short haul intermodal sector is so lucrative as you seem to think,then it’s obvious that the trucks and redundant drivers in this case would have all been employed doing that at higher rates than they were getting on longer haul work and obviously problem solved.Respectfully, you’re away with the fairies. Without mentioning a primeminster, country, year or political party show me where the loss to rail is in the container trade. Not where it might be in the future but where it is now, say over the last 5 years ? Because i’m sure you’re making it up as you go along.
m.dailyecho.co.uk/news/10130785. … uit_city_/
So you’re saying that if more freight goes by rail from the docks like Southampton that went by road previously that isn’t a loss from road transport to rail.According to that ( accurate ) article it’s not me who’s away with the fairies.Like I said it’s time those in the road transport industry got their heads out of the sand.
So putting up rates would have solved that problem on planet trucknet.
Carryfast:
Mike-C:
Respectfully, you’re away with the fairies. Without mentioning a primeminster, country, year or political party show me where the loss to rail is in the container trade. Not where it might be in the future but where it is now, say over the last 5 years ? Because i’m sure you’re making it up as you go along.
m.dailyecho.co.uk/news/10130785. … uit_city_/
So you’re saying that if more freight goes by rail from the docks like Southampton that went by road previously that isn’t a loss from road transport to rail.According to that ( accurate ) article it’s not me who’s away with the fairies.Like I said it’s time those in the road transport industry got their heads out of the sand.
So putting up rates would have solved that problem on planet trucknet.
No, i’m saying that article is a croc of crap. And i’m also not suggesting that putting rates up will get more work or it won’t, i’ve no idea. On the face of it that article you linked to above would suggest that Elite have pulled out of Soton because of a downturn in traffic that is moving over to rail. Thats not true. Also the downturn was supposed to be 8%. Logically, if you lost 8% of your business you could downsize by a certain percentage to correct the balance? That article was December 2012. Since then it transpires that Elite have applied for a CVA. Now i read that as company troubles. I mean Elite transport who have depots in Manchester and Leeds, note…there’s no ports there, they service the rail terminals, are filing for a CVA for what ? You reckon its because its because to much freight is going on a train ? Do us a favour.
Mike-C:
Carryfast:
Mike-C:
Respectfully, you’re away with the fairies. Without mentioning a primeminster, country, year or political party show me where the loss to rail is in the container trade. Not where it might be in the future but where it is now, say over the last 5 years ? Because i’m sure you’re making it up as you go along.
m.dailyecho.co.uk/news/10130785. … uit_city_/
So you’re saying that if more freight goes by rail from the docks like Southampton that went by road previously that isn’t a loss from road transport to rail.According to that ( accurate ) article it’s not me who’s away with the fairies.Like I said it’s time those in the road transport industry got their heads out of the sand.
So putting up rates would have solved that problem on planet trucknet.
No, i’m saying that article is a croc of crap. And i’m also not suggesting that putting rates up will get more work or it won’t, i’ve no idea. On the face of it that article you linked to above would suggest that Elite have pulled out of Soton because of a downturn in traffic that is moving over to rail. Thats not true. Also the downturn was supposed to be 8%. Logically, if you lost 8% of your business you could downsize by a certain percentage to correct the balance? That article was December 2012. Since then it transpires that Elite have applied for a CVA. Now i read that as company troubles. I mean Elite transport who have depots in Manchester and Leeds, note…there’s no ports there, they service the rail terminals, are filing for a CVA for what ? You reckon its because its because to much freight is going on a train ? Do us a favour.
No one is saying that it’s not a case of company troubles.What we’re arguing about is the reasons why.The ‘combination’ of loss of long distance traffic to rail,high fuel costs and over capacity caused by previously long distance container haulage operators trying to switch to unsustainable local only work,seems to provide a more credible explanation than what you’ve provided there.No surprise that you couldn’t answer the question concerning idea of putting rates up just like kr couldn’t.But it really shouldn’t be that difficult to have an ‘idea’ as to what would happen in the present trading environment if anyone was stupid enough to do that rather than to just shut down assuming the figures don’t add up.
So you think the article is bs.Yeah right.But what would the Southampton Port director know over your expert view.
Carryfast:
No one is saying that it’s not a case of company troubles.
Yes they are, you said this a few posts back…
If I read the report right it actually said that other container haulage firms are also at risk and it also seems to confirm my view of the situation that it’s all about loss of work to rail ( because rail has an obvious trading advantage ) not haulage firms needing to put their rates up
Carryfast:
What we’re arguing about is the reasons why.The ‘combination’ of loss of long distance traffic to rail,high fuel costs and over capacity caused by previously long distance container haulage operators trying to switch to unsustainable local only work,seems to provide a more credible explanation than what you’ve provided there.
You think Elite didn’t know how to make a profit or loss when they opened depots at Manchester and Leeds, they should of just listened to your hypothesis? Also if what you suggest is true why didn;t the depots servicing the short haul rail work go ■■■■ up first?
Carryfast:
No surprise that you couldn’t answer the question concerning idea of putting rates up just like kr couldn’t.But it really shouldn’t be that difficult to have an ‘idea’ as to what would happen in the present trading environment if anyone was stupid enough to do that rather than to just shut down assuming the figures don’t add up.
I’ve no idea because i’ve never run my own truck and i havn’t the first idea about rates, prices or anything. But i do know this as several subbys who run their own trucks tell me…i’m better to get three locals a day rather than a long job. I know no more than that what they say. That sort of blows your ‘long haul sector’ theory out the water, albeit its only my own anecdotal evidence. You may have more practical eveidence to back your theory up than i have?
Carryfast:
So you think the article is bs.Yeah right.But what would the Southampton Port director know over your expert view.
From the article itself we can substantiate that its inherently untrue, due to what we know the company has done now. BY untrue i mean that an 8% fall in volume for soton is able to make the company fold. I couldn’t care less what the soton port director said as its nothing in substance. He says volumes have fell for them by 8%, the only way he’ll know this is if they tell him. BUt i’d imagine him saying that is a bit of PR so it doesn;t appear the company is in the crap, like it actually is and we know this now and didn;t then. You’d be forgiven after reading that snippet that its problems was localised to Soton for the reasons stated, they wheren’t.
Your consultation on growth of rail is nothing new, i’m well aware of this. Right now though, nothings growing. Thats all predictions based on 2008 studies compiled in the boom years prior. That will probably still hold true that rail is the way its going to go for long haul, but thats not a conversation i’m getting into now as its nothing to do with Elites demise.
if we can et through this without mentioning Margret Thatcher and the Polish in WWtwo then i’ll consider it quite an achievement !!! 
Mike-C:
if we can et through this without mentioning Margret Thatcher and the Polish in WWtwo then i’ll consider it quite an achievement !!!
i wouldnt like to put money on that mike 
Mike-C:
Carryfast:
No one is saying that it’s not a case of company troubles.Yes they are, you said this a few posts back…
If I read the report right it actually said that other container haulage firms are also at risk and it also seems to confirm my view of the situation that it’s all about loss of work to rail ( because rail has an obvious trading advantage ) not haulage firms needing to put their rates up
Carryfast:
What we’re arguing about is the reasons why.You think Elite didn’t know how to make a profit or loss when they opened depots at Manchester and Leeds, they should of just listened to your hypothesis? Also if what you suggest is true why didn;t the depots servicing the short haul rail work go ■■■■ up first?
Carryfast:
No surprise that you couldn’t answer the question concerning idea of putting rates up just like kr couldn’t.But it really shouldn’t be that difficult to have an ‘idea’ as to what would happen in the present trading environment if anyone was stupid enough to do that rather than to just shut down assuming the figures don’t add up.I’ve no idea because i’ve never run my own truck and i havn’t the first idea about rates, prices or anything. But i do know this as several subbys who run their own trucks tell me…i’m better to get three locals a day rather than a long job. I know no more than that what they say. That sort of blows your ‘long haul sector’ theory out the water, albeit its only my own anecdotal evidence. You may have more practical eveidence to back your theory up than i have?
Carryfast:
So you think the article is bs.Yeah right.But what would the Southampton Port director know over your expert view.From the article itself we can substantiate that its inherently untrue, due to what we know the company has done now. BY untrue i mean that an 8% fall in volume for soton is able to make the company fold.
Your consultation on growth of rail is nothing new, i’m well aware of this.That will probably still hold true that rail is the way its going to go for long haul, but thats not a conversation i’m getting into now as its nothing to do with Elites demise.
I don’t see anything that’s inconsistent in my statement concerning it’s all about the government’s policy of switching freight from road to rail and the fact in this case it’s resulted in ‘company troubles’ just as it will others in future.
The fact that it’s now more viable to do local runs than distance actually says everything about what that government policy has done to the long haul sector not how lucrative the local sector is in real terms.While even that can’t remain as lucrative in the longer term when more operators who are displaced by the switch to rail try to enter that sector instead.
As for the loss of work to rail in this case,being able to bring down a company,the facts seem to show that’s the case. Bearing in mind that the size of the fleet would have been based on the original amount of work in the form of mileage run and that the margins could well have been tight enough to need every last per cent of that work.While the fact that just running short haul rail terminal work obviously wasn’t a viable alternative,to employ the fleet on,says everything about your ideas concerning the sustainability of that sector.All the evidence seems to show that the firm was brought down by the direct and indirect knock on effects of the switch of freight from road to rail.Of which this is just the beginning.As I said the road transport industry needs to get it’s head out of the sand.
I blame Thatcher…all her fault.
Give me a while and i’ll find a way of roping the Poles in for some of the blame as well…
DonutUK:
I blame Thatcher…all her fault.Give me a while and i’ll find a way of roping the Poles in for some of the blame as well…
Not to mention they bought the wrong fleet too.
If they’d run Detroit two stroke 6 x 4 Peterbroke wagon and drags with 20 speed spicer boxes they’d be bigger than Stobart 
billybigrig:
DonutUK:
I blame Thatcher…all her fault.Give me a while and i’ll find a way of roping the Poles in for some of the blame as well…
Not to mention they bought the wrong fleet too.
If they’d run Detroit two stroke 6 x 4 Peterbroke wagon and drags with 20 speed spicer boxes they’d be bigger than Stobart
And if they put in some frilly curtains, some bag of feathers dream catcher detail and lobbed a couple of spot lights up. they could have under cut NIKE far east labour costs in wages paid.
And Uk drivers would be screaming for it as it was shiny, whilst blaming the poles for crap wages.
How is it that you never see Dyslexia spelled wrong?
Anyone know how yesterday’s drivers meeting went, are the guys still in there?