Build5:
They do have a gearbox, diff, alternator, and clutch of sorts.
Surprising!..any links to plans, schemas or owt please?
Franglais:
Build5:
They do have a gearbox, diff, alternator, and clutch of sorts.Surprising!..any links to plans, schemas or owt please?
I don’t have plans or anything and don’t own an electric car yet but it’s something that really interests me. From what I can gather it’s something like an elastic band connected to a motor which is connected to a battery pack running through a regulator which controls current to the motor.
This guy explains it using petrol/diesel engine terminology so you can get your head around it.
This is the YouTube guy -
He’s done loads of videos and they’re really interesting.
switchlogic:
alamcculloch:
Imagine if all of those parked up trucks near Dover were electric, the drivers sitting in them with heating on and some “entertainment”. How would you get them moving after a few days never mind a week.You know we haven’t stopped all Development of the system don’t you? So far all I’ve seen are now problems, now problems because it assumes nothing will advance or change. I imagine a lot of the same stuff was said at the advent of fossil fuel powered vehicles.
I don’t think the invention of the internal combustion engine can be compared to electric vehicles.
Before the internal combustion engine we had steam engines that required coal and water at regular intervals along the route. The calorific value (if that’s the correct term?) of steam was very low compared to the internal combustion engine. Petrol engines went farther, produced more power and only required fuel at certain intervals. The invention of the combustion engine was a quantum leap forward in technology. It required very little infrastructure to keep them moving. They used to sell petrol in glass bottles and jerry cans if you can believe that! Lots of local shops would sell you a bottle of petrol.
In some ways, going electric is a massive step backwards. It isn’t as efficient as petrol/diesel. It requires huge infrastructure. The vehicle is ‘trapped’ to the infrastructure. It has a lot of similarities to steam.
I’m not saying for one second we shouldn’t explore electric and other forms of power but I’m not convinced the way it’s being rolled out and within the time frames government are suggesting is practical or achievable.
Electric definitely isn’t a quantum leap forward. It’s a huge step backwards. I get why we need to do it and agree 100% but I’m not going to say it’s a new or ground breaking idea.
Ah yes because petrol and diesel vehicles don’t need a massive infrastructure that they are ‘trapped’ to. And no one has claimed it’s new or groundbreaking, electric vehicles are as old as the hills. You’re blowing very hot and cold on this subject. One minute you Say you’re a fan but then disagree with every pro comment so I shall leave you all too it as while it’s a subject that interests me it doesn’t to that extent. Have a good Christmas
switchlogic:
Ah yes because petrol and diesel vehicles don’t need a massive infrastructure that they are ‘trapped’ to. And no one has claimed it’s new or groundbreaking, electric vehicles are as old as the hills. You’re blowing very hot and cold on this subject. One minute you Say you’re a fan but then disagree with every pro comment so I shall leave you all too it as while it’s a subject that interests me it doesn’t to that extent. Have a good Christmas
I apologise if you think I’m attacking electric vehicles. I’m not. I appreciate we need to make changes to the way we use fossil fuels but I won’t sit back and blindly say it’s a revolution or think everything will be fine and dandy. I’m genuinely interested in how they’re going to roll out the technology. I can see lots of problems and there doesn’t seem to be many answers on the internet on how these problems are going to be overcome. A trucking forum seems the perfect place to discuss the finer points of how these trucks will work day to day.
For our daily car an electric vehicle makes lots of sense. It’s cheaper to run and tax and produces less emissions. I say less emissions because that power has to be produced somewhere by something. I can park it on my drive and charge it at home while I sleep.
I don’t think anything I’ve said is wrong or a lie. I was rather hoping someone with more knowledge would tell me how it’s all going to work.
Build5:
switchlogic:
Ah yes because petrol and diesel vehicles don’t need a massive infrastructure that they are ‘trapped’ to. And no one has claimed it’s new or groundbreaking, electric vehicles are as old as the hills. You’re blowing very hot and cold on this subject. One minute you Say you’re a fan but then disagree with every pro comment so I shall leave you all too it as while it’s a subject that interests me it doesn’t to that extent. Have a good ChristmasI apologise if you think I’m attacking electric vehicles. I’m not.
For our daily car an electric vehicle makes lots of sense. It’s cheaper to run and tax and produces less emissions. I say less emissions because that power has to be produced somewhere by something. I can park it on my drive and charge it at home while I sleep.
Never apologise, it only encourages them.
Yes it appears cheaper, if you only consider fuel prices at the present time where the equivalent of fuel tax and full rate vat are not applied to electricity.
When you add up the initial extra cost of the EV, it’s limited lifespan before seriously expensive battery replacement is needed, and when fuel duty (anyone guess why they want smart meters everywhere?) and full rate VAT are applied together with however else they decide the proletariat must be penalised and taxed on because they dare to require individual transport, then the costs will balance out.
If petrol and Diesel fuels carried no fuel duty and the vat was at present electricity rates then internal combustion engined travel would probably be cheaper fuel wise than electricity, overall i suspect EV ownership is more expensive anyway currently (hoho) due to the ridiculous initial cost and scandalous depreciation.
Your/our electric bills are going to soar anyway over the next 10 years due entirely to the climate scam, and anyone who thinks the £billions of lost taxes due to diminishing petrol and Diesel usage is going to be written off is in for a nasty shock, the soon to be compulsory smart meter will change everything for EV users.
What am i going to do?
Well, depending on how internal combustion powered vehicles are penalised, or the fuel itself, over the next ten years and beyond to force you (fully masked and social pariah status, the new normal in utopia) to do the world govt’s owner’s bidding, then i’ll overmaintain whatever petrol/Diesel/dual/hybrid fuelled cars i own at the time to last as long as possible, in another 20 years if i’m still here i won’t care a ■■■■ what they do.
alamcculloch:
Imagine if all of those parked up trucks near Dover were electric, the drivers sitting in them with heating on and some “entertainment”. How would you get them moving after a few days never mind a week.
I should imagine most dock areas are going to get multiple charging stalls like they have in Zeebrugge.
Juddian:
alamcculloch:
Imagine if all of those parked up trucks near Dover were electric, the drivers sitting in them with heating on and some “entertainment”. How would you get them moving after a few days never mind a week.My thoughts exactly, but you’re not supposed to suggest anything other than the perfect fluffy bunny scenario will accompany this brave new utopia they have planned for us.
Meanwhile back in the real world, those second (pick a number with at least 4 digits) rate politicians, and those making a nice little earner for doing little out of this climate scam, promising jam tomorrow will be out of office and enjoying their 30 pieces of silver rewards as most of the type do for services rendered as they milk the dinner speech circuit.
Not a hope in hell the charging infrastructure or reliable fossil fuel free generating capacity will be in place for the great shift from 2030 onwards for cars let alone commercial usage, but never let practicalities get in the way of a good soundbite and the pages of unquestioning media worship that follows, it won’t be Johnson or any of the present unfit for purpose ministers having to quietly extend the 2030 date back to a more realistic timescale.
These people never tell the truth and never get a single estimate right, everything they plan either turns out to be a white elephant and/or it ends up costing twice or three times the original plan’s cost and is often unfit for purpose once up and running, not to worry some good mates will have earned £billions of our (taxpayers) money as they always do via lucrative dodgy ■■■■■■■ contracts
The charging infrastructure is already in place! The National Grid have laid under sea inter connector cables to European countries that will make the UK/EU one huge electric generator, The biggest & cleanest is the cable to Norway making use of their hydro power.
The main man at the National Grid said they could cope with however many BEV’s connected up to the grid, The interconnector program is only about 25% completed up to present & when all EU/UK countries are linked peak power problems will be a thing of the past.
Most EU/UK power grids can cope with normal power usage, It’s the peak times power usage that’s the problem, When it is peak power time in say France they will get power from other countries who are in different time zones & vice versa.
nationalgrid.com/our-busine … ner-future
The head guy at National grid Graham Cooper saiid the highest usage ever in the UK happened in 2005 & ever since power usage has declined despite the UK population increasing by approximately five million people during this time. Some factors for this decline are energy efficiency regulations, energy-efficient lighting and changing consumer habits. statista.com/statistics/323 … ingdom-uk/
lancpudn:
When it is peak power time in say France they will get power from other countries who are in different time zones …
I assume they do realise that most of Europe is in the same time zone. Plus if we’re all supposed to be charging overnight, then the demand is going to be there all night not just little peaks.
I assume these countries are going to make sure they have plenty of electric, so they’ll shut down the interconnection if there isn’t enough. If that happens in quite a few places, we’re screwed. Also what happens if say France decide to put the price up?
Would be much better to have the generating capacity ourselves, but the greenies won’t let us have nuclear which is the only reliable one.
Finally, there might be enough capacity coming in at certain points mostly in the south if England, but is there enough to spread it round country? That’s a lot of power to get from Hampshire to Scotland for example. Do we have enough pylons and substations for that?
Better build some power stations quick or we’re knackered.
Build5:
They do have a gearbox, diff, alternator, and clutch of sorts.
Actually they don’t.
One of the biggest issues with EVs has been tyre wear due to the fact the maximum torque is applied from 1RPM. They don’t need a clutch because these motors can turn extremely slowly and they can apply their full torque from 1RPM. The motors can rev up to silly speeds, and as I said they provide max torque from standstill so no need for a gearbox. Each driven wheel has it’s own motor so no need for a diff. The same motors that drive the vehicle also generate an electric current on over-run so no need for an alternator.
trevHCS:
Finally, there might be enough capacity coming in at certain points mostly in the south if England, but is there enough to spread it round country? That’s a lot of power to get from Hampshire to Scotland for example. Do we have enough pylons and substations for that?Better build some power stations quick or we’re knackered.
We already have enough generating capacity and the existing infrastructure can already cope. Over the past couple of decades the improvements in power efficiency of electrical devices has meant we use much less electricity than we used to. Just look around your house. Where you had an incandescent bulb that used to use 100W of electricity you now have an energy saving bulb that uses 1/10th of that and lighting used to be what used the vast majority of electricity people consumed. Virtually nobody uses those electric fires or convector heaters any more, your TV uses half the power the old CRT TVs used to do. Switch mode power supplies in electronics devices are much more efficient than they used to be, virtually nothing uses a linear power supply with a big heavy transformer and lossy voltage regulators that turned much of the electricity coming out of the transformer into heat. Electric cookers, washing machines, fridge freezers…everything electrical consumes much less power than it used to.
Even out of your home you can see the changes…street lighting and traffic signals are now using different types of bulbs or LEDs which are much more power efficient, quite a few areas even turn off the street lighting during the night. Go to the office and all the computers and the computer monitors are using much less electricity than they used to. All the outside lighting at Howdens is those superbright LED things, many of which such as in the staff car parks are on motion sensors.
trevHCS:
lancpudn:
When it is peak power time in say France they will get power from other countries who are in different time zones …I assume they do realise that most of Europe is in the same time zone. Plus if we’re all supposed to be charging overnight, then the demand is going to be there all night not just little peaks.
I assume these countries are going to make sure they have plenty of electric, so they’ll shut down the interconnection if there isn’t enough. If that happens in quite a few places, we’re screwed. Also what happens if say France decide to put the price up?
Would be much better to have the generating capacity ourselves, but the greenies won’t let us have nuclear which is the only reliable one.
Finally, there might be enough capacity coming in at certain points mostly in the south if England, but is there enough to spread it round country? That’s a lot of power to get from Hampshire to Scotland for example. Do we have enough pylons and substations for that?
Better build some power stations quick or we’re knackered.
Wind farms, The worlds biggest offshore wind farm off the east coast Dogger Bank will be online soon, It’s being built in three stages with blades the length of a football field.
electrek.co/2020/12/18/worlds-l … -turbines/
We definitely need more grid battery storage for solar, So much energy going to waste.
Conor:
Build5:
They do have a gearbox, diff, alternator, and clutch of sorts.Actually they don’t.
One of the biggest issues with EVs has been tyre wear due to the fact the maximum torque is applied from 1RPM. They don’t need a clutch because these motors can turn extremely slowly and they can apply their full torque from 1RPM. The motors can rev up to silly speeds, and as I said they provide max torque from standstill so no need for a gearbox. Each driven wheel has it’s own motor so no need for a diff. The same motors that drive the vehicle also generate an electric current on over-run so no need for an alternator.
Seems the Tesla S has one motor and a diff.
youtube.com/watch?v=3SAxXUI … ex=11&t=0s
Maybe some other designs may have separate motors for each side?
Tyre wear is not surprising if a two wheel drive car does 0 to 60 in 2.5sec…
youtube.com/watch?v=qLvpLGFacjQ
I doubt we’ll see an ICE car without an electric axle after 2025, They’re doubling down on climate targets now to reduce them even further. I’m not sure how this will effect truck emissions in the coming years! electrive.com/2020/12/11/eu … -for-2030/
~The upcoming Euro 7 will mean ICE cars wont pass the new stringent standards by 2025 never mind 2030. electrive.com/2020/11/16/vd … -standard/
There is an amendment to the Euro 6 starting on January 1st 2021 Euro 6 (D) that brings the diesel NOX emissions for private cars limit down to 80g/km
It’s beginning to look like the 1967 Dr Beeching railways cuts scenario all over again for transport. 
The big outfits will be first to adopt the EV change simply because it will give them the PR and they have the facilitys.
Their RDC’s are only around 4 hours drive from each other (to suit drivers hours)
Once on a bay they will simply connect into the fast charger that all bays will have, an hour on there will be plenty enough time to charge the vehicle for its return. (thinking Amazon, DPD ETC)
The big supermarkets the same, plus they can top up should they be doing store delivery’s as their store bays will also have charging ports.
Tesla are “now” producing double the capacity battery’s and these are what will go into their vehicles very soon & battery prices are continuing to drop as more company’s produce them now and new tech is progressing to drive this trend for ever cheaper/lighter packs.
Within the next 5 years the above will “start” to become the norm and all those above users cannot wait to change as the savings on maintenance & fuel are significant.
switchlogic:
Firstly I think there will always be a variety of power formats used in trucks and secondly nothing you ask about is an insurmountable problem. We are at the start of a long road with electrification, lots of advances to come with lots of solutions to problems that may not even be seen as a problem yet. Think of where the world was a century ago, and what’s to come isnt near as radical as what has been. Basically- watch this space.And now awaits Sir Carry of Fast to hijack the whole post because of course he’s the only one that knows anything
Well before a century ago we had already found out that electric cars let alone trucks ain’t going to work.
Batteries are bleedin heavy and expensive and not durable.Electrics are unreliable.
Electricity is just about the most expensive form of energy there is and also lethal in the form of nuclear generation.
Good luck with 18p per KWh + road fuel taxes and inevitably turning a large part of the country into Chernobyl sooner or later.
But you already knew all that.
I think electric cars are going to be ok mostly for two car households. What happens when there is localised flooding ,we sometimes see footage of cars up to their hub caps and worse. Will they be write offs? The charging set ups often are down for maintenance, when this happens they are all down, same as A.T.Ms. no point driving to the next one as it is off as well.
I wonder if lorries will skip batteries and go straight to hydrogen ,■■■■■■■ are on it as always 
Dodgy Permit:
the savings on maintenance & fuel are significant.
If that was true Electric vehicles would have won out a century ago.
18p per kwh + road fuel duty and VAT and electrics usually consign vehicles to being an economic write off before mechanicals do.
As opposed to 10 kwh contained in a litre of diesel.
Plus the cost and weight penalties of batteries.
At the risk of turning a large part of the country into another Chernobyl.
Good luck with that.
According to the Nissan website the Nissan Leaf takes 11.5 hours for a full charge of 239 miles in perfect conditions or 2 per day per charger. How will trucks charge in 1 hour