Election 2015 exit poll

Carryfast:

Olog Hai:

Carryfast:
Firstly the fact that the pensions are just a scam set up by an industry that isn’t in it for the pensioners’ benefit is nothing new.

You are certifiably crazy. The pension ‘scam’ that I am part of includes my employer contributing 5% of my salary to it at no cost to myself. I don’t know about you but I regard that as being to my benefit.

Or to look at it another way your actual total salary is automatically deducted to cover an uncertain amount,in real terms,of deferred wages on retirement.Bearing in mind that the total contributions are dependent on your continuing employment in an environment where no guarantee of a job for working life and minimising wages are seen as a good thing and it is in the pension provider’s interests to maximise the contributions profitability potential of the scheme,while minimising the eventual payout liability. :bulb: :unamused:

Have you run out of full stops again

got to have another 5 more years of billy hunt how can i ever cope ?

can not believe what happend in the election, i really was hoping the torys would be held to book, but i guess the south run this country.

its even harder to take when you look at over 60% of the people in this country who voted did not vote for this goverment, ukip got 4 million or more votes and yet have just 1 mp ?

i am glad labour got a punch on the nose, and made up the snp did so well, i just hope one day our own people will get together like the scots have

the only good news in this whole sorry mess is that at least the cons saved themselves by promising a vote on europe without that they would of surely been sunk so from my point of view ukip did manage to put the pressure on and we will get that vote and lets hope the country gets us out of europe for once and for all

i fear the torys will hurt a lot of people over the next 5 years, who knows maybe in 5 years time it might be you who read this that will be out of work looking to food banks or worse having to lose your home while the next door polish guys take over your job and your homes ?

we will have a better picture in another 5 years

but in the meantime we got 5 more years of people like billy hunt to put up with

you got it right billy i give you that with your prediction

Juddian:
Winseer i have to say this…oh and another excellent post by the way.

WTF are you poncing about driving lorries for, you’re one of the most articulate written posters i’ve seen on any forum and you stand out a mile because there’s bloody heaps of common sense in your postings, your posts whilst long don’t bore, especially convincing as you’re a genuine working class working man, something the champagne socialists/libs/tories can never be nor ever convince because they haven’t been there nor got the T shirt.

Have you submitted any blog posts to somewhere like Orphans of Liberty or thought about contributing to Breitbart London.

There’s a serious journalist with patriotic conviction lurking inside if i may say so, you should seriously consider using that brain and the written word to make a living, you could write speeches, anything.

Many thanks. This “Voice crying in the wilderness” will accept any recognition it can get.
I don’t have any idea how to actually approach “People empowered to employ me” in real life you could say. Not having been to University, I was always a bit of a loner when younger, and even now - most of my communications with others has been online - a place where I’ve had a presence since 1985 with my first bulletin board “The Chopping Block”. This board was primarily concerned with the then online gaming community and the new upcoming generation of home computer buffs. The Chopping Block was running on a BBC Micro, and used to annoy my parents (since I was living at home at the time) because it ■■■■■■■ the phone line every time dialled in to leave a message on the board! All the way back then people would also swap files such as music programs written in Basic or 6502 - and there were no copyright issues because (1) I’d coded the music myself and (2) the ‘music original work’ would have been a long-dead composer, such as my favourite - Bach.

I’m intrigued to explore these names above that I had not previously heard of. You could say that the main reason I “waste myself poncing about driving” is that I don’t have any other source of income. :frowning: I’d love a “journalist” type job where I’m actually paid to go to work & write for some outlet or other - but don’t consider myself leftie enough for something like being a Guardian Columnist, and have seen the publications of the right such as Daily Mail - sink down the plughole, seemingly attempting to become a “loony right” - having lost it’s way as a “sensible” Newspaper some time since alas.

I grew up with Radio 2, Daily Mail, & an eternal Conservative presence in local politics btw.

If I could dictate policy of ANY publication however - it would be for the moderators of such forums to STOP censoring input on the basis of “not agreeing with it” and do their jobs properly as an editor taking out bad taste remarks, illegal remarks, or outright seditious remarks. It’s damned hard to submit any typed material that satisfies the “auto-censor-mod” that has consigned a lot of my “Essay” type media submissions to the cyber dustbin over the past few years.

If I only said things nearly everyone agreed with - they wouldn’t be “controversial” for sure, and would probably be totally ignored as the meaningless claptrap it would be. On the other hand, saying something that those currently silent think “Yeh!” - but goes against conventional wisdom - THAT represents ‘a ball to kick around for all’, and if everyone turning up is here wants to give my proverbial ball a good kicking - then that’s better than the alternative of giving me a good kicking.

I consider my remarks to have been “well-received” if they provoke any reaction at all - good or bad.
As Oscar Wilde wrote: “The only thing worse than being talked about - is not being talked about” :slight_smile:

People keep saying it’s the end if the NHS etc, where’s the evidence■■?

I don’t like the Tories stance on foreign aid, the cash should have gone on important things like the police and armed forces. Generally however i’m pretty pleased with their work so far. Employment up, low inflation, economy booming.

The “bedroom tax” isn’t a tax, it’s a reduction in benefits. My step daughter tried to exchange her two bed council flat for a house as she wanted more space. According to the left, there are lots of people suffering due to this “tax”. The solution would surely be to exchange (for free) the larger council house with unwanted rooms for the smaller flat. She registered on the council exchange website. Guess how much interest she got to arrange a swap for her well presented flat?

None.

bazza123:
The “bedroom tax” isn’t a tax, it’s a reduction in benefits. My step daughter tried to exchange her two bed council flat for a house as she wanted more space. According to the left, there are lots of people suffering due to this “tax”. The solution would surely be to exchange (for free) the larger council house with unwanted rooms for the smaller flat. She registered on the council exchange website. Guess how much interest she got to arrange a swap for her well presented flat?

None.

That sounds more like a typical something for nothing socialist v socialist argument.IE zb social housing for all each according to their needs.Which then inevitably breaks down into the argument of one lot deciding who’s ‘need’ is greatest because none of them want to end up in the pokey flat they all want the biggest house possible in the nicest area.

In which case from the point of view of a real Conservative the point is they should be earning enough to buy their own house of choice and not be reliant on state allocated and rationed housing.But they won’t do that in an economy that is run on the lines of minimising wage levels.

Together with the obvious implication being that the policy also sets a precedent in the case of privately owned housing.In that older residents,or those hit by sickness or unemployment,could eventually,be forced out of their own hard earned homes,on exactly the same bs socialist idea.Especially those in high housing value parts of the country.By a simple change in the council tax and council tax relief system.Which of course is already a similar situation in the case of private homes having to be given up in order to pay for rip off private care costs which the so called NHS doesn’t cover.IE Communist type institutional theft of private property by the back door. :imp: :unamused:

old 67:

huggy:

wheelnutt:

Coffeeholic:
Hopefully the Union will be no more within 5 years.

You may want to read up a bit on how the union works, there is no way the Scots can leave, it is entirely up to the English and rightly so after we bailed you guys out, price of failure.

DELUDED DOESNT EVEN COVER THAT COMMENT . the union is finished poverty austerity and the dismantling of our nhs .in order for us to make missiles will end it . clock ticking

Security has to come first in my book, whether it’s the country you live in or the house you live in. The same principle applies to both. It’s no use spending to make your home a better place to live in if you don’t FIRST spend some on an decent lock for your front door. There are some nasty people/countries out there.
Regards. John.

Absolutely. Now if you could just give me your postcode I’ll nominate that they build the missile silos and stores 30 miles from your front door. That’s pretty fair.

desypete:
can not believe what happend in the election, i really was hoping the torys would be held to book, but i guess the south run this country.

I think it was more a case of the electoral system combined with Cameron’s trick of using media pressure in one form or another doing whatever it took to split or neutralise the UKIP vote.

However bearing in mind the fate of Major’s administration this could still get ‘interesting’ in the lead up to Cameron’s stated EU referendum ‘promise’.As the Party has to again come to terms with the contradiction in its ideologically federalist principles v the issue of sovereignty and the national interest.

This was with a majority of 18 not 12 and with no UKIP MP’s.Bearing in mind the implications of Cameron calling on the support of Labour and the SNP to defeat any Conservative rebellion. :smiling_imp: :smiley:

independent.co.uk/news/major … 86997.html

Olog Hai:
There is some top-quality straw-grabbing from one or two of the normal suspects in this thread… :laughing:

Own Account Driver:
Er, not really last time I checked. One party forms a government and the rest are in opposition.

Thanks for that, I would never have realised.

Own Account Driver:
Now UKIP enjoy substantially more popular support it will be very hard for them to be so easily ignored.

The media has largely been ignoring Nige and his buddies for the past couple of months and make no mistake, it is the media which governs what the population thinks, not political parties.

Own Account Driver:
Support will grow, not fall, there’s still plenty of Tory voters, and probably Labour too, who believe their parties can do something to sort immigration. At some point they’ll wake up and defect to UKIP.

Not likely. If Cameron keeps to his word and holds an in/out referendum then regardless of the result, UKIP will drift away into the ether if they haven’t done so already.

I quite agree, if they enjoyed full media support it almost certainly would be a UKIP landslide.

Janos:

Carryfast:

kr79:
Labour needs to break away from unions dictating to them as they will make the leader the person that panders to them not the person who can win the floating voter.
That’s why Michael Foot got the job over Denis Healey and why Ed Milliband got the job over his brother.

The problem isn’t the unions having a large say in what the ‘Labour’ Party does.It is the fact that the unions have too often followed the Socialist agenda.But make no mistake the real ideological difference between Cons and Labour would/should be just as big if not bigger and strong unions will/would need to be an essential part in that.While the idea of the ‘floating’ voter is an issue of ‘pandering’ to a vote which is basically too stupid to understand all the basic differences in ideology and policy and therefore hasn’t got a clue what it is voting for or why.God help us if if it comes to a government based on that being the idea.

There should no ideological agenda at all. People preaching socialist, anti-capitalist spiel, including you carryfast, should be shipped east, where you can argue amongst your comrades as much as you like. The rest of us will enjoy a liberal democracy. When will people like you understand that a country has to make money before it can spend money. Labour was bankrupting this country, and if they had got in again, they would of finished the job.

I’m not claiming it wouldn’t have been worse under Labour but, the price of the economy being what it has been (not too great albeit not technically in recession in my view) for the last five years has been a doubling of the national debt.

Own Account Driver:
the economy being what it has been (not too great albeit not technically in recession in my view) for the last five years has been a doubling of the national debt.

Probably because the government and its economic advisors are still in denial concerning the link between trade deficit especially in manufacturing,employment,income levels and tax revenues.

IE an economy that is too all intents and purposes now in a similar situation as Greece and the Irish Republic.Mostly because the government decided to turn our oil wealth into a foreign aid scam by effectively giving it away in exchange for imported manufactured goods.Thereby increasing the labour supply and reducing spending power and tax revenues. :unamused: :frowning:

desypete:
got to have another 5 more years of billy hunt how can i ever cope ?

can not believe what happend in the election, i really was hoping the torys would be held to book, but i guess the south run this country.

its even harder to take when you look at over 60% of the people in this country who voted did not vote for this goverment, ukip got 4 million or more votes and yet have just 1 mp ?

i am glad labour got a punch on the nose, and made up the snp did so well, i just hope one day our own people will get together like the scots have

the only good news in this whole sorry mess is that at least the cons saved themselves by promising a vote on europe without that they would of surely been sunk so from my point of view ukip did manage to put the pressure on and we will get that vote and lets hope the country gets us out of europe for once and for all

i fear the torys will hurt a lot of people over the next 5 years, who knows maybe in 5 years time it might be you who read this that will be out of work looking to food banks or worse having to lose your home while the next door polish guys take over your job and your homes ?

we will have a better picture in another 5 years

but in the meantime we got 5 more years of people like billy hunt to put up with

you got it right billy i give you that with your prediction

Why do you think I would have disappeared if it had been a labour win? Or a ukip one come to that. As far as ukip are concerned it worked out as I suspected, it seems the public weren’t taken in by the routine after all, not when it comes to the bigger issues anyway. Seems they are more scared of the scots than your much hated poles coming here.
In five years time I will be out of work, I will have retired, my houses are all paid for and, as I’ve said before, I’ve no problem with polish people wherever they are, a young lady has just bought the house next door so it’s happy days all round on that score.
Just to remind you of the conservative stance on the in/out euro referendum, I think they said it will happen if they don’t get a better deal from Europe, we will have to wait & see on that. Also I wouldn’t be betting your house on a out vote being a certainty,
I think it would be a lot closer than many, certainly on this forum, reckon.
Five more years of me to put up with! At least I try & have a positive outlook on things, certain senior members on here see gloom & doom at every turn. I think we are better off than five years ago & will be better off again in another five, what’s wrong in that?

Havent trawled through the full thread yet tbh, so dont know if this has been covered.
It is postulated (by some) that we enjoy one of the greatest systems of democratic governance in the “civilised” world.
These graphs however, tell a starkly different story.
We are NOT being governed democratically, that much is certain.

Seats if under proportional representation.png

Actual seats gained.png

Percentage of national vote.png

This chestnut has been around for years, usually it’s the lib dems, or whatever their title was at any given time, banging on about it. The fact is it’s the way we do it, everyone knows that at the outset & only bleat when it doesn’t work out for them. Even saw the 1 kipper MP banging on about it, funnily he wasn’t that bothered about it when he was a Tory MP.
Don’t forget we had a referendum on it a couple of years ago & it was massively rejected. Now I’m aware there will be members coming on saying it was rigged blah blah blah, but the result stands.

Hiya Billy!!! Here we go. :laughing:

Agreed that it suits the politicians - but only when it suits them (if you get me). Im not commenting on them though - im speaking for the electorate (you know, the people whos collective will is supposed to be observed and represented. IT IS NOT, and to say "oh well, thats the way it is and that`s the way we do it" is pretty limp. Do you, on looking at the graphs (which is that rarest of things i.e. a TRUE set of figures), honestly hold the opinion that the people of this country are being fairly represented? If you do, then LOOK GAIN until you see the reality.

Obviously looking at the graphs it shows a huge disparity in votes versus seats, but as I said, we had a referendum on wether to go with PR and rejected it. Do you think we should have one every time there is an election & some get miffed about not getting in. The thing is it’s not a huge issue in this country, never has been.

Coffeeholic:
At least the highlight of the whole thing is the UKIP total failure to get any significant number of seats. That’s the best news of all. I’m going to bed now, I’m bored with it already.

Of course UKIP failed to get any seats, because of the bias voting system we have, with PR they would have 81 seat and rightly so. never read so much crap.

I cannot for the life of me fathom why a move towards a truer, fairer system of democracy would be rejected, and the result doesnt sit entirely comfortably with me as to its truth tbh. We none of us know the degree to which we are manipulated and deceived - just that we are. The end rejection result of the PR issue however, is pure conjecture, and not something even you and i, Billy, can constructively argue about! :smiley:

I think that this old chestnut will not go away though, and like to believe that ultimately it will come to pass. Not a huge issue presently, granted, but a growing issue undoubtedly, as the peripheral parties continue to get a raw deal under this fundamentally flawed system. As the THIRD most supported party in British politics, UKIP are hardly peripheral though - more a major force, if they were allotted their rightful place. Sadly, but almost certainly, this will not come to fruition in my lifetime, but true democracy will not be realised until it does.

BillyHunt:
Just to remind you of the conservative stance on the in/out euro referendum, I think they said it will happen if they don’t get a better deal from Europe, we will have to wait & see on that. Also I wouldn’t be betting your house on a out vote being a certainty,
I think it would be a lot closer than many, certainly on this forum, reckon.

Firstly it’s a reasonable bet that,as usual,at worse,the Cons ideologically federalist principles will fudge the pre election ‘conditions’ of a Euro referendum being met in order to maintain the status quo of avoiding a Brexit at all costs.Or at best they’ll put the pre referendum in campaign into maximum over drive as in 1975.

However against that at least such a referendum isn’t going to be lumbered with the vagaries of the parliamentary system IE it’s all about numbers not local concentration of numbers and bs seat allocations.

In which case you’re basically betting on every Labour voter being an EU supporter and the unknown of just how many Conservative voters ( let alone MP’s and Euro MP’s ) are actually federalists at heart,as opposed to having UKIP symapthies but were scared off by the perceived or real tactical implications in the General Election of acting on them.The LibDem,Green and majority of the SNP vote.On that basis it is a fair bet that the UKIP vote numbers in the election were just the tip of a small iceberg in relation to the level of anti EU vote potential numbers in the country v their opposition as listed above.

Added to which is the fact that the Scottish call for independence is actually now only going to get stronger.Especially after I’ve reminded them of the difference between a Confederation v a Federation. :smiling_imp:

On that basis Cameron and his Federalist,pro EU,lap dogs are arguably in a worse position than Major ever was and as they say a week is a long time in politics.I’d be listening to people like Dannan and Davis for just two if I was Cameron. :smiling_imp: :smiley:

Security has to come first in my book, whether it’s the country you live in or the house you live in. The same principle applies to both. It’s no use spending to make your home a better place to live in if you don’t FIRST spend some on an decent lock for your front door. There are some nasty people/countries out there.
Regards. John.
[/quote]
Absolutely. Now if you could just give me your postcode I’ll nominate that they build the missile silos and stores 30 miles from your front door. That’s pretty fair.
[/quote]
Hello Craig. The opinion I was trying to express was that I believe its of little use spending money on making your country or your home a better place to live in if you don’t first ensure its security. There are numerous ways of achieving this security including having missiles. Whether missiles was or is the right way to go is a huge question which has caused heated debate for many years and I don’t profess to know the answer.
Do you live " 30 miles " from Faslane " ? Would you be safer if the silos were down here in Yorkshire ? I don’t think you would. IF we are going t have a missile base in the UK , it doesn’t matter much to me where it is. It has just occurred to me though, that if I lived in an independent country and a very close neighbouring country had a missile defence system, which I did not have to pay for, I might think that was not a bad idea. :wink:
Regards. John.

■■■■■■■:
I cannot for the life of me fathom why a move towards a truer, fairer system of democracy would be rejected, and the result doesnt sit entirely comfortably with me as to its truth tbh. We none of us know the degree to which we are manipulated and deceived - just that we are. The end rejection result of the PR issue however, is pure conjecture, and not something even you and i, Billy, can constructively argue about! :smiley:

I think that this old chestnut will not go away though, and like to believe that ultimately it will come to pass. Not a huge issue presently, granted, but a growing issue undoubtedly, as the peripheral parties continue to get a raw deal under this fundamentally flawed system. As the THIRD most supported party in British politics, UKIP are hardly peripheral though - more a major force, if they were allotted their rightful place. Sadly, but almost certainly, this will not come to fruition in my lifetime, but true democracy will not be realised until it does.

You might not be able to fathom it, but rejected it was in 2011, and by quite a big margin. Just looking it up, on a turnout of 41%, yes that’s how interested the general public were & that was bigger than expected, the yes vote got 32.1% and the no vote got 67.9%. I cannot see any rush to move to a PR system in this country and tbh I don’t see what difference it would make to us in the end. You would change one bunch of faceless politicians for another, the colour of the rosette might change but they’re only disgruntled Tories when all is said & done.
As for another Scottish referendum forget it, the conservatives are committed to working for a United Kingdom, wether the scots like it or not, they have a majority & would be backed by labour & lib dems if nessessary. They had one, they rejected it, they have to live with it.