Election 2015 exit poll

OUT OF HOURS BULLY'S TRUCKSTOP BAR (INTERACTIVE)
181

Carryfast:

BillyHunt:
Well it seems Lord Nigel didn’t like being on the dole too long, back in charge of the kippers after being persuaded to change his mind. Looks like we dodged a bullet there if he’s liable to change his mind that quickly.

No together with Dannan he can do more damage to Cameron’s administration back in the EU parliament than he could ever have done in the UK one under the present electoral system and while it remains a puppet of Brussels. :bulb: :smiling_imp: :smiley:

The difference with UKIP is that it isn’t a bunch of amateurs like the Labour ranks.It has a purpose and it will eventually succeed in smashing the federalist dream of a federal Europe.

He pontificated about being a man of his word, he said he would resign if he didn’t win, he didn’t do either. Looks like he’s an ideal man for parliament.
Given the stated aim of getting out of Europe, you would think they would support the government as it tries for a better deal with a view to getting out if they don’t. Maybe they don’t really want out of Europe for some reason.
A little light reading for you.
theweek.co.uk/politics/60702 … weaknesses

182

BillyHunt:

Carryfast:
No together with Dannan he can do more damage to Cameron’s administration back in the EU parliament

The difference with UKIP is that it isn’t a bunch of amateurs like the Labour ranks.It has a purpose and it will eventually succeed in smashing the federalist dream of a federal Europe.

He pontificated about being a man of his word, he said he would resign if he didn’t win, he didn’t do either. Looks like he’s an ideal man for parliament.
Given the stated aim of getting out of Europe, you would think they would support the government as it tries for a better deal with a view to getting out if they don’t. Maybe they don’t really want out of Europe for some reason.
A little light reading for you.
theweek.co.uk/politics/60702 … weaknesses

Firstly he did honour his word.He resigned in good faith.

So are you saying that if the Labour or LiDem parties had decided en masse that Miliband or Clegg had done more than a good enough job to not need to fall on their swords and refused that gesture of good faith and asked them to re consider and stay,that they still would have been guaranteed to go.

I’d suggest that providing UKIP with a vote of around 4,000,000 fits the definition of more than a good enough job and Farage still deciding that wasn’t good enough shows massive strength of character.Not surprisingly the Party then asked him to re consider and ( very ) luckily for the anti EU cause he decided to stay.Although I can understand how that is a terrifying prospect to Cameron being that he is in a worse situation at the start of his time in office than Major was in the middle of his majority wise.Let alone having to face the calibre of people like Hannan and Farage just waiting to throw a grenade at Cameron’s credibility amongst his ‘friends’ in the EU parliament. :open_mouth: :smiling_imp: :smiley:

On that note supporting Cameron in any way whatsoever would be the most stupid suicidal move now that UKIP could make.Bearing in mind an electoral mandate that’s based on getting us out and hopefully smashing the whole EU federal project apart in the process.Not negotiating to keep us in the federalist EU mire.This is now a fight to the finish and there isn’t much point in Cameron now calling for the help of those that his propaganda machine branded as fruitcakes,loons and racists.Especially being that if Farage was seen to offer any such ‘help’ to Cameron then his credibility really would/should ( rightly ) be called into question.Meanwhile the media frenzy concerning Farage’s decision to stay shows just how zb scared and shocked that the Cons really are concerning the issue.

My money is now on us not having to wait until 2017 for the referendum and as I said,unlike the election,that will be all about vote numbers not first past the post.That’s assuming that Farage can’t now make life so uncomfortable for Juncker that they decide to throw us out before he and Hannan have a chance to really pish on Juncker’s chips. :smiling_imp: :bulb:

As for Cameron I’m sure that his credibility will end up worse than Major’s assuming he has to ask for support from the SNP,Lab and what remains of the LibDems against his own,hopefully,Eurosceptic rebels.

Some light reading for you.

That’s going to help the in referendum vote no end :unamused: :laughing: .When what’s left of the Labour vote,realises that yet more poverty stricken immigrants,competing for what’s left of the uk budget,is all we need in an economy that can’t afford to look after its own.

euractiv.com/sections/social … tas-314471

183

For starters he didn’t resign, he, allegedly, tendered his resignation, it was refused. His story about taking the summer off to consider his position lasted 3 days. He could have stuck to that, taking up the reigns on his return but couldn’t face time out of the spotlight. Carswell is not happy at all, having to take direction from someone that cannot win a seat after 7 attempts. And yes, if the others had been asked to reconsider I believe they would still have gone.
What pressure could those muppets put on Cameron, other than to ensure he doesn’t get a better deal for the UK from Europe in the hope that we would vote to get out. That would play well next election time.
Please put all you have on the referendum being before 2017, you will lose the lot.

184

cameron’s played a blinder , by the time the proposed referendum comes round there will be far too many voters with a vested interest in keeping the door open it will be a no vote .

185

BillyHunt:
For starters he didn’t resign, he, allegedly, tendered his resignation, it was refused. His story about taking the summer off to consider his position lasted 3 days. He could have stuck to that, taking up the reigns on his return but couldn’t face time out of the spotlight. Carswell is not happy at all, having to take direction from someone that cannot win a seat after 7 attempts. And yes, if the others had been asked to reconsider I believe they would still have gone.
What pressure could those muppets put on Cameron, other than to ensure he doesn’t get a better deal for the UK from Europe in the hope that we would vote to get out. That would play well next election time.
Please put all you have on the referendum being before 2017, you will lose the lot.

Yes Farage handed in his resignation.To which the answer obviously ( rightly ) went along the lines that nothing has changed in fact the Party’s position is actually stronger in terms of support because of his leadership.Therefore please re consider because that support will obviously be threatened if he resigns.

As for Carswell if he really prefers Cameron’s idea of ‘re negotiation’ and working with the real muppets like Juncker,rather than the realisation that the EU was always a federalist scam which the muppet Heath took us into and the idea of doing whatever it takes to get us out and hopefully also smashing the EU project in the process,then he can obvously go back to join Cameron’s ranks at any time.Being that the former strategy was never UKIP policy.While the latter was and still is to my knowledge.In which case,as I’ve said Farage,hopefully together with Hannan,can do far more damage to Juncker’s federal fiefdom and Cameron’s plans to keep us in at all costs,from within the EU parliament,than he can within the UK parliament.

The fact is Cameron has everything to lose and UKIP everything to win from now on assuming it holds its nerve.Farage’s decision to stay on being the first hammer blow to Cameron’s chances.

186

here is somthing that is being passed around about human right act being abolished by the torys it seems there is a petition aimed at trying to save them, i havent had much time to get into what its all about but here is a link for my friend billy to have a read of or anyone who might be interested

change.org/p/david-cameron- … eated=true

i am happy nigel is staying on as the leader, he should never of even thought about giving up his job as he has done a fantastic job in such a short space of time, its not his fault that the party got 4 million votes yet it only gets them 1 mp that is the system that is at fault not him

he has given all political correct nutters a right good kicking, daine race card abbot and harriet hatemen spring to mind and all people like them hate our nigel with a passion so he had done wonderful and its no longer being seen as racist to want to put our own people and our own country first, something the political correct nutters have got away with for far to long trying to control the people of this country in what they can say or can not say

nigel will be a thorn in anyones side its a shame he didnt get a seat himself but i dont know of anyone else or any other party leader that has what he has

cameron ran away from head to head debates as he was and is a coward, scared he would damage the cons chances etc and it looks like being a coward helped

so please dont take this personally billy but up yours mate with a gold handled knob on.

fact is 33% of the people want to be ruled by torys 67% dont

yet they have a majority so the 67% have to suffer tory rule and this is fair ■■?

already some people took to the streets in london with minor riots kicking off

187

desypete:
fact is 33% of the people want to be ruled by torys 67% dont

yet they have a majority so the 67% have to suffer tory rule and this is fair ■■?

already some people took to the streets in london with minor riots kicking off

Ironically that argument probably has more to do with the fact that we don’t have a decent Labour opposition which needs to share UKIP’s views on everything except arguably the idea of replacing EU membership with yet more global free market economics.While even if we did in terms of rioters we’re probably looking at the misguided lost cause Socialist side of the potential Labour vote.

Make no mistake UKIP are ( very ) close to the Conservatives in terms of their economic policies but just as in 1975 the issue of sovereignty and federalism far outweighs that issue.In which case ironically in that respect Cameron’s parliamentary LabLibdemSNP/Green ‘opposition’ are actually his allies.

Basically what’s missing is a party which can do anti free market economics but with Ron Paul,Hannan and Farage type anti federalist politics.IE a nationalist government that acts in the interests of the country which is what the French FN is all about.That’s the future for the ‘Labour’ Party if only it knew it.But it can’t do Nationalist because it is ideolically lumbered with all the Socialist baggage which views nationalism as fascism.When ironically it was actually the Socialist component of its ideology which defined the nazis not Nationalism. :unamused:

188

desypete:
fact is 33% of the people want to be ruled by torys 67% dont

yet they have a majority so the 67% have to suffer tory rule and this is fair ■■?

already some people took to the streets in london with minor riots kicking off

Trouble being, the only alternative makes an even smaller party, who even LESS people wanted to govern, the final arbiters on all decisions…

You can’t do that, you must do this we will/won’t let that policy pass…

Please explain how putting such muppets with even LESS support in effective control isn’t even less fair?

LDs just RIGHTLY got an absolute drubbing for pulling this unjust stunt… yet now many are clamouring to make that or it’s equivalent a permanent situation…

189

I have no idea what carswells ideas are, I just know he thought he would be leader when Nigel left, as promised, since reneged. I bet Cameron won’t lose a wink of sleep over Nigel changing his mind, he’s got bigger fish to fry.
What’s Cameron got to lose? He’s promised a referendum, we will have a referendum. I would think the kippers have more to lose as that’s all they have in their bag, which ever way the vote goes the government will move on, ukip will have to come up with another plan. Btw, is it hannan or dannan? You seem to be a little confused, unless it’s two people.
Ah desypete, still bitter & twisted I see, you’ve hurt me deeply with that gold knob remark, it brought a tear to my japs eye. I would agree that Nigel has something no other leader has, 7 attempts at getting into parliament & failing every time.
Looks like the 67% are going to have to ■■■■ it up for the next five years then doesn’t it. Are you still making plans to move to kiddy fiddler central, oops, I meant the Far East. Do you see the irony in someone that hates immigrants is gagging to become one?

190

BeardedBlunder:

desypete:
fact is 33% of the people want to be ruled by torys 67% dont

yet they have a majority so the 67% have to suffer tory rule and this is fair ■■?

already some people took to the streets in london with minor riots kicking off

Trouble being, the only alternative makes an even smaller party, who even LESS people wanted to govern, the final arbiters on all decisions…

You can’t do that, you must do this we will/won’t let that policy pass…

Please explain how putting such muppets with even LESS support in effective control isn’t even less fair?

LDs just RIGHTLY got an absolute drubbing for pulling this unjust stunt… yet now many are clamouring to make that or it’s equivalent a permanent situation…

The house doesn’t work in the way which you seem to be describing.It has always been the case that just being the largest Party doesn’t provide the right to govern.IE the house works on the basis that no MP has any more power than any other on every bill it passes.It is just done on a head count for or against and that would be the same wether under the present system or PR.The only difference would be in the relationship between the way in which each MP’s electoral mandate is calculated.Which as we’ve seen provides the figures given previously not those at present.Which is the issue.

As for the reason why the LD lot got massacred by its own that was ‘actually’ the fact that it did a ‘deal’ that provided the Cons with more power in the previous government than their number of MP’s warranted.Had it been a minority government under all the usual conditions of same.In which case the LD’s will now be kicking themselves that they didn’t turn down the offer of co alition and just act independently on a vote by vote basis.Although knowing the level of intelligence of that Party maybe not.

IE please explain how you can justify,an electoral system that calculates representation in the house on a variable basis.Varying from around 26,000 votes required per MP in the case of the SNP to almost 4,000,000 in the case of UKIP.Bearing in mind all the above.Let alone a situation where the Cons were complaining about present boundaries putting them at an electoral disadvantage at less than 35,000 votes required per seat. :unamused:

191

The house effectively works exactly as I described, and will until such time as legislation is decided by secret ballot of members.

It also works that way in just about every country that uses PR

You’ve still to explain how who has decisive power being given in fact to groups elected by an even smaller minority is fairer than giving it to those with the greatest one… come on, explain how it’s fairer…

I need a good laugh.

192

BillyHunt:
I would agree that Nigel has something no other leader has, 7 attempts at getting into parliament & failing every time.

It’s worth pointing out that in the same ballot UKIP took control of Thanet District Council, meaning many people who voted UKIP in the local election voted Conservative in the nationals, and I’d say that with the opinion polls showing the two main parties neck and neck that it was far more important to many people to keep a Labour/SNP government out than to vote a UKIP member in.

193

BillyHunt:
I have no idea what carswells ideas are, I just know he thought he would be leader when Nigel left, as promised, since reneged. I bet Cameron won’t lose a wink of sleep over Nigel changing his mind, he’s got bigger fish to fry.
What’s Cameron got to lose? He’s promised a referendum, we will have a referendum. I would think the kippers have more to lose as that’s all they have in their bag, which ever way the vote goes the government will move on, ukip will have to come up with another plan. Btw, is it hannan or dannan? You seem to be a little confused, unless it’s two people.

How could it possibly have been a case of ‘when’ Farage left as opposed to ‘if’ Farage decided to go and/or who/what the Party actually wanted.Although you seem to be making a big leap from having ‘no idea’ what Carswell’s ideas are/were to then ‘knowing’ that he was going to be the guvnor. :unamused: The fact is if it was that important to him he’d obviously already be back with Cameron.

As for Cameron dream on.The fact is he is in a ( much ) worse situation than Major was and he knows it. :smiling_imp: :smiley:

194

BeardedBlunder:
The house effectively works exactly as I described, and will until such time as legislation is decided by secret ballot of members.

It also works that way in just about every country that uses PR

You’ve still to explain how who has decisive power being given in fact to groups elected by an even smaller minority is fairer than giving it to those with the greatest one… come on, explain how it’s fairer…

I need a good laugh.

So you’re saying that a minority government can’t be brought down by a united opposition on the basis of votes per head in the house. :unamused: Which is why,of course,Cameron was happy to do a deal with the LibDems to avoid exactly that situation.The fact is under PR the Cons are still a minority government.Subject to all the implications of same in which being the largest Party isn’t worth a can of beans.

As opposed to the situation in which a less than 35,000 votes requirement per MP v almost 4,000,000 for UKIP gets them where Major was.

195

Carryfast:

BillyHunt:
I have no idea what carswells ideas are, I just know he thought he would be leader when Nigel left, as promised, since reneged. I bet Cameron won’t lose a wink of sleep over Nigel changing his mind, he’s got bigger fish to fry.
What’s Cameron got to lose? He’s promised a referendum, we will have a referendum. I would think the kippers have more to lose as that’s all they have in their bag, which ever way the vote goes the government will move on, ukip will have to come up with another plan. Btw, is it hannan or dannan? You seem to be a little confused, unless it’s two people.

How could it possibly have been a case of ‘when’ Farage left as opposed to ‘if’ Farage decided to go and/or who/what the Party actually wanted.Although you seem to be making a big leap from having ‘no idea’ what Carswell’s ideas are/were to then ‘knowing’ that he was going to be the guvnor. :unamused: The fact is if it was that important to him he’d obviously already be back with Cameron.

As for Cameron dream on.The fact is he is in a ( much ) worse situation than Major was and he knows it. :smiling_imp: :smiley:

It was never the case that billy liar, or Lord farage if you prefer, would stay if he didn’t get his seat, he even tries to explain it again today, he said he would go, he hasn’t making his “word” worthless. Of course carswell wanted to be leader of a party, why do you think he left the Tories where he was an unknown, to move to a one man band? When the one man band has gone he would move up, I think it’s called politics. It was widely reported that he was furious when he heard Lord farage had lied and took over again.
Its irrelevant what happened to Major as Cameron has no discernible opposition with the other major patties in disarray, unless you think that Lord Nigel can bring the government down with all of his one seat.

196

Carryfast:

BeardedBlunder:
The house effectively works exactly as I described, and will until such time as legislation is decided by secret ballot of members.

It also works that way in just about every country that uses PR

You’ve still to explain how who has decisive power being given in fact to groups elected by an even smaller minority is fairer than giving it to those with the greatest one… come on, explain how it’s fairer…

I need a good laugh.

So you’re saying that a minority government can’t be brought down by a united opposition on the basis of votes per head in the house. :unamused: Which is why,of course,Cameron was happy to do a deal with the LibDems to avoid exactly that situation.The fact is under PR the Cons are still a minority government.Subject to all the implications of same in which being the largest Party isn’t worth a can of beans.

As opposed to the situation in which a less than 35,000 votes requirement per MP v almost 4,000,000 for UKIP gets them where Major was.

No, I’m saying as I’ve repeatedly said that a minority government can be, and in fact always is, controlled by whatever small party holds the balance, and is effectively controlled by their say-so, having the power to bring them down at any time, and thus veto anything they want… in spite of the fact they have possibly only tiny popular support…
PR results in this situation always obtaining…
Substituting “tyranny of the minority” for “tyranny of the even smaller minority”

Your above post is effectively arguing against your own case.

197

BillyHunt:
It was never the case that billy liar, or Lord farage if you prefer, would stay if he didn’t get his seat, he even tries to explain it again today, he said he would go, he hasn’t making his “word” worthless. Of course carswell wanted to be leader of a party, why do you think he left the Tories where he was an unknown, to move to a one man band? When the one man band has gone he would move up, I think it’s called politics. It was widely reported that he was furious when he heard Lord farage had lied and took over again.
Its irrelevant what happened to Major as Cameron has no discernible opposition with the other major patties in disarray, unless you think that Lord Nigel can bring the government down with all of his one seat.

Like any other Party it is ‘the Party’ which decides who its leader will be.Farage was chosen as its leader.In the case of ‘the Party’ having not ‘performed’ as well electorally as he’d have liked ‘he’ said that 'he’d go.‘However’ obviously with a voter base of almost 4,000,000 ‘the Party’ decided that Farage’s own definition of perform was maybe pessimistic.Therefore ‘the Party’,not Farage, ( rightly ) decided that ‘it’ wanted Farage to stay.IE Farage kept his word ‘the Party’ decided that ‘it’ could do the most damage to its opposition by keeping Farage where he is.The fact that the biased establishment anti UKIP propaganda machine,has gone into a frenzy over the issue,just confirms that ‘the Party’ has made the right decision.Carswell of course being governed,in that regard,by the Party he represents.

198

BeardedBlunder:

Carryfast:
So you’re saying that a minority government can’t be brought down by a united opposition on the basis of votes per head in the house. :unamused: Which is why,of course,Cameron was happy to do a deal with the LibDems to avoid exactly that situation.The fact is under PR the Cons are still a minority government.Subject to all the implications of same in which being the largest Party isn’t worth a can of beans.

As opposed to the situation in which a less than 35,000 votes requirement per MP v almost 4,000,000 for UKIP gets them where Major was.

No, I’m saying as I’ve repeatedly said that a minority government can be, and in fact always is, controlled by whatever small party holds the balance, and is effectively controlled by their say-so, having the power to bring them down at any time, and thus veto anything they want… in spite of the fact they have possibly only tiny popular support…
PR results in this situation always obtaining…
Substituting “tyranny of the minority” for “tyranny of the even smaller minority”

Your above post is effectively arguing against your own case.

No a minority party is ( rightly ) effectively controlled by the democratic process in the house.In which every MP’s vote counts equally on the basis of one vote per MP.It is then up to each MP to vote as they wish.That applies wether it is the first past the post system or PR.The argument in this case being the relatively ( massive ) difference and variable levels of electoral representation in the case of votes required by the electorate to elect each MP.In which case PR obviously reflects that count better than the present system of count.In which case under PR the Conservatives would be a minority administration.Just as Callaghan’s was under the first past the post system when Thatcher brought down his government.I don’t remember any complaints about the issue of the largest Party being defeated by an alliance of the smaller ones,based on the idea of one MP one vote,in that case.

IE the issue of minority government can apply exactly the same under either system.The relevant bit being the difference in number of electoral votes required to get the same level of representation in the house.The issue of minority government being a red herring and a diversion.

199

Carryfast:

BillyHunt:
It was never the case that billy liar, or Lord farage if you prefer, would stay if he didn’t get his seat, he even tries to explain it again today, he said he would go, he hasn’t making his “word” worthless. Of course carswell wanted to be leader of a party, why do you think he left the Tories where he was an unknown, to move to a one man band? When the one man band has gone he would move up, I think it’s called politics. It was widely reported that he was furious when he heard Lord farage had lied and took over again.
Its irrelevant what happened to Major as Cameron has no discernible opposition with the other major patties in disarray, unless you think that Lord Nigel can bring the government down with all of his one seat.

Like any other Party it is ‘the Party’ which decides who its leader will be.Farage was chosen as its leader.In the case of ‘the Party’ having not ‘performed’ as well electorally as he’d have liked ‘he’ said that 'he’d go.‘However’ obviously with a voter base of almost 4,000,000 ‘the Party’ decided that Farage’s own definition of perform was maybe pessimistic.Therefore ‘the Party’,not Farage, ( rightly ) decided that ‘it’ wanted Farage to stay.IE Farage kept his word ‘the Party’ decided that ‘it’ could do the most damage to its opposition by keeping Farage where he is.The fact that the biased establishment anti UKIP propaganda machine,has gone into a frenzy over the issue,just confirms that ‘the Party’ has made the right decision.Carswell of course being governed,in that regard,by the Party he represents.

So what your saying is that Lord farage wanted to quit but the “party” said no, therefore forcing him into extending a job he said he would walk away from if the results didn’t go his way, which they didn’t. He also said he would take the summer off then see what the situation was regarding the leadership, I watched it on the news, that lasted three days.
It just proves a couple of things, ukip are a one trick pony with not one other viable leader in their ranks, having to rely on a perennial failure to try & win votes, not a great idea as some people just don’t like him, how could he not beat the conservative candidate in a seat he picked himself, shows a lack of judgement. Lord farage has to be the centre of attention, sees ukip as his only way of keeping himself in the spotlight. It’s no good banging on about 4 million voters, they should have targeted seats better, a big mistake to spread themselves so thin, carried away by Nigel’s bluster.

200

dear billy japs eye

if it wasn’t for ukip my friend your party would never have included a referendum on Europe, if they didn’t have that offer included they would of felt the full weight of the public like labour felt it as they didnt think the issue on europe was important enough for them or they didnt trust the public to have a vote, well look what happend to labour they got a defeat, the torys won only because the people knew they would get a referendum on the issue they care about most and thats getting out of europe

its all come about because of ukip and its excelent leader who shows up the policitcal correct lot for what they are, king nigel might be a bit of a toff himself but he certainly talks like one of the lads, he has the same views as many in the country do and he is not scared to say so in public and no matter how much attacking anyone does towards him he just gets bigger and bigger

if they attack him over him staying on as leader or try to make people think they can not trust him as he isnt a man of his word, well the man in the street trust him more than any of the others, they know he did quit but the bosses wouldnt let him go so he didnt go back on his word at all and being honest the whole of the uk would know this man is what politics needs, someone who will kick people up there backsides

listen if he gets under your skin billy he gets my vote for that alone

now we can look forward to the day we get a vote to close the doors.

as for me going to find myself a bride in another country old billy japs eye i changed my mind since nigel has decided he will fight on i guess i will have to follow suit and carry on the fight as well

it happend in life we can say things and then change our minds you know ?