Riho:
This post will be ignored as 2.4 euros is better to prove the argument.
A couple of facts:
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Kreiss pays around 2000-2200 euros per month in Europe, Scandinavia is paid more due to harsh winter conditions and the fact drivers don’t like to work there.
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Low hourly wage is set because of the astronomical Employer National Insurance contributions and the rest is paid as night out money as previously mentioned.
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Kreiss is not the most ethical company however it is very successful if we consider the cards they were dealt with to start with in 1994. To grow a company out of nothing in a country with virtually no financing institutions and complete lack of knowledge as to how a market economy is run is remarkable and frankly speaking I don’t think any Germen, French or British businessman would be able to do it. So in that respect kudos to the owners.
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The problem is much wider than Kreiss, Girteka, Finejas or Batim or Waberers. The fundamental problem lies in consumers. Everyone wants everything cheap, but at the same time everyone wants to have a high salary. Guess what, it doesn’t work like that. Something, somewhere has to give and transport industry (because its an overhead and 90% of time outsourced) is the giver.
Interesting stuff however I think you’re missing two very important points that come together as one.
The issue, very clearly, is the hourly wage, not the total, of course no one believes these drivers only earn 2.4 euros a day and that’s all.
The reason for the ban is the hourly rate, it’s a protectionism by Norway in an attempt to protect its own industry/workers and its hopefully going to spread, that’s the fundamental issue, not the consumers, consumers are consumers and we will always want things as cheaply as possible .
Norway, like others has a minimum wage structure and that’s meant to be relevant to its economy so that people/ consumers can live a basic life ( how basic can be argued another day ) if you want more then earn it and of course if things were cheaper then great.
Do you think that what ever was brought in to Norway was sold cheaper due to the drivers wage/transport costs being lower or do you think that the distributor/seller just made more profit?
The fundamental issue for me is the exploitation of the EU economic/border structure that allows companies to take advantage of lower wages from lesser economies and undermine entire industries in more developed countries using the massive imbalance of economic needs.
I have no issue at all with drivers coming into the uk and working, the system allows it for the moment and you’d have to be pretty dumb not to come here and earn up to 6 times your own countries rate but not have to tramp in a cab for 6 weeks at time relying on night out money! The issue I have is that the system we have allows it and therefore has pretty much destroyed our own wages and work opportunities because we have different wage needs/expectations.
There is a reason why where we once used to see polish plates we then saw Hungarian plates and now we see Romanian and Bulgarian plates taking over the roads in this country. I noticed over the last few months that one of those big spanish companies that hauls fruit and veg over here is now running only Bulgarian registered trucks, same as the uk ones that do it, are they doing it to survive as a business, my arse, they do it to lower costs, dodge charges and increase profit.
If I had any money in one of those big EE companies I’d be bailing out, I hope, but doubt very much, that they start to enforce it over here…
Mazzer2:
Andrejs:
muckles:
edd1974:
Minimum wage in Norway is 17.81 euro an hour.
Yet there paid 2.43 euro.
Unbelievable. All.the directors managers should be jailed have there mansions sports cars confiscated.
Is modern.day slavery.
But how.on earth did they mange to recruit drivers on 2.43 and hour. Drivers must been really desperate.
Have some sympathy for the drivers. But why on earth accept a job paying next to nothing.
Maybe €2.43ph is a good wage in Lithuania where Girteka is based is apparently the minimum wage is €550pm, although that’s still 50+ hours a week, my understanding is the way a lot of these drivers are paid includes a lot of other payments, but these aren’t included in the hourly pay figures.
But isn’t this why the whole thing is so crap, basically workers employed by East European companies being used by wealthy Western Europe and Multi nationals to move goods round at rock bottom rates, far less than a local company can compete with if they to pay even the their own countries minimum wage, all in the name of free movement of goods and labour, something which our own successive governments were more than happy to sign up to, although never seemed as keen to sign up to workers rights.
After many years of complaints by unions and other organisations, even industrial in actions which was ruled illegal by the ECJ, the EU finally responded, but only after Germany and France forced the issue by bringing in their own legislation in about 2014-2015.
Kreiss drivers taked home 580 eiro per week or about 2500 euro per month.Simply wages about 430 and 2000 night out money.Uk drivers as well avoid paid tax.When i was in Uk that my personal money was just about 600 quid but all another company profit,divident.But in total about 2500 per month.
You cannot compare what a UK based tramper takes home with an EE tramper a UK based driver will spend a lot less time at work than the EE driver so you are dividing the wage by a higher number of working days.
A UK based tramper will generally be out for 5 days and return home at the weekend most EE trampers I have spoken to do roughly 6 weeks at a time with there being roughly 22 week days in a 30 day month the UK tramper is working a lot less and also getting time out of the lorry ask anyone who has done long stints in the lorry after a while it does affect you, whereas the EE is at work everyday, however his wage is made up 2500 euro divided by 30 is a poor rate per day roughly 80 euro per day (£70 a day at current exchange rates) then divide that by roughly 12 hours and you are nowhere near the minimum wage of the countries that you are working in
.in most situation in Europe drivers spend less hours st wotk.There less traffic,much more companie tipped without booking time.Sweden fscyory wotk til 3-4pm.Much less factory work till late.It is just in Uk ambiend RDC eork 24/7.In different country thousand people work away from home,stay weekend away ftom home.And nobody pay for this.If people agree work away that it is own choice.
Mazzer2:
Andrejs:
muckles:
edd1974:
Minimum wage in Norway is 17.81 euro an hour.
Yet there paid 2.43 euro.
Unbelievable. All.the directors managers should be jailed have there mansions sports cars confiscated.
Is modern.day slavery.
But how.on earth did they mange to recruit drivers on 2.43 and hour. Drivers must been really desperate.
Have some sympathy for the drivers. But why on earth accept a job paying next to nothing.
Maybe €2.43ph is a good wage in Lithuania where Girteka is based is apparently the minimum wage is €550pm, although that’s still 50+ hours a week, my understanding is the way a lot of these drivers are paid includes a lot of other payments, but these aren’t included in the hourly pay figures.
But isn’t this why the whole thing is so crap, basically workers employed by East European companies being used by wealthy Western Europe and Multi nationals to move goods round at rock bottom rates, far less than a local company can compete with if they to pay even the their own countries minimum wage, all in the name of free movement of goods and labour, something which our own successive governments were more than happy to sign up to, although never seemed as keen to sign up to workers rights.
After many years of complaints by unions and other organisations, even industrial in actions which was ruled illegal by the ECJ, the EU finally responded, but only after Germany and France forced the issue by bringing in their own legislation in about 2014-2015.
Kreiss drivers taked home 580 eiro per week or about 2500 euro per month.Simply wages about 430 and 2000 night out money.Uk drivers as well avoid paid tax.When i was in Uk that my personal money was just about 600 quid but all another company profit,divident.But in total about 2500 per month.
You cannot compare what a UK based tramper takes home with an EE tramper a UK based driver will spend a lot less time at work than the EE driver so you are dividing the wage by a higher number of working days.
A UK based tramper will generally be out for 5 days and return home at the weekend most EE trampers I have spoken to do roughly 6 weeks at a time with there being roughly 22 week days in a 30 day month the UK tramper is working a lot less and also getting time out of the lorry ask anyone who has done long stints in the lorry after a while it does affect you, whereas the EE is at work everyday, however his wage is made up 2500 euro divided by 30 is a poor rate per day roughly 80 euro per day (£70 a day at current exchange rates) then divide that by roughly 12 hours and you are nowhere near the minimum wage of the countries that you are working in
.in most situation in Europe drivers spend less hours st wotk.There less traffic,much more companie tipped without booking time.Sweden fscyory wotk til 3-4pm.Much less factory work till late.It is just in Uk ambiend RDC eork 24/7.In different country thousand people work away from home,stay weekend away ftom home.And nobody pay for this.If people agree work away that it is own choice.
Andrejs:
[quote="Mazzer
You cannot compare what a
UK based tramper takes home with an EE tramper a UK based driver will spend a lot less time at work than the EE driver so you are dividing the wage by a higher number of working days.
A UK based tramper will generally be out for 5 days and return home at the weekend most EE trampers I have spoken to do roughly 6 weeks at a time with there being roughly 22 week days in a 30 day month the UK tramper is working a lot less and also getting time out of the lorry ask anyone who has done long stints in the lorry after a while it does affect you, whereas the EE is at work everyday, however his wage is made up 2500 euro divided by 30 is a poor rate per day roughly 80 euro per day (£70 a day at current exchange rates) then divide that by roughly 12 hours and you are nowhere near the minimum wage of the countries that you are working in
.in most situation in Europe drivers spend less hours st wotk.There less traffic,much more companie tipped without booking time.Sweden fscyory wotk til 3-4pm.Much less factory work till late.It is just in Uk ambiend RDC eork 24/7.In different country thousand people work away from home,stay weekend away ftom home.And nobody pay for this.If people agree work away that it is own choice.
[/quote]
Look at the bits in bold I am comparing two jobs that have the same title not the dayman who toodles around Frankfurt or Stockholm
I was lived in Uk and work for Uk company for day driver ,trampers.Now do internation tramping job for not Uk company.In most day i work less hours than i was do in Uk