Educating the CPC trainer

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
21

muckles:

jakethesnake:

muckles:
Sadly from my experience of doing 70 hours of DCPC courses is that generally the instructors are poor, (Just because you can drive a truck doesn’t mean you have the skills to impart that information to a group of people) the course content is poor, (much seems to be regurgitated from the Transport Managers CPC, but not changed make it work from a Drivers view point), the whole thing is really a box ticking exercise. It could have been so much better, (but nobody wants that, Government, Industry or Drivers)
So for the next 35 hours, I’ll sit in the classroom, keep quiet, tick the box get the card.

Yep, you are quite correct muckles. Most I would imagine are not trained to instruct or deliver a lesson in a classroom hence all the poor courses.
It’s exactly the same as a lorry driver trying to teach another lorry driver without any proper instuctional techniques. It very rarely works.
There are some excellent DCPC Instructors though and I was lucky enough to get one during my one and only DCPC course.
Still reckon an awful lot depends on the attitude of the drivers attending the course. (reading on here…appalling)

Having done many courses in my time, some haulage related, some not, I can say the instructor can make a difference between and engaged group and an uninterested group, this includes drivers, even if many don’t want to be there.
One of those times was doing my ADR many years ago, the first instructor no doubt had a really good knowledge of the subject, but his delivery of it was so dry and boring most lost interest, the instructor who came in for the last day was different, he knew how to engage his audience, made it much more of a 2 way process, without letting the one, been there done that driver, tell yet another story and bore the rest of us.

Oh yes as usual you are spot on. I also have done many courses and have had the pleasure of assessing instructors on a instructional techniques course. Plenty know their stuff but just do not have the personality to deliver the info over without boring the pants off people.

22

Oh yes as usual you are spot on. I also have done many courses and have had the pleasure of assessing instructors on a instructional techniques course. Plenty know their stuff but just do not have the personality to deliver the info over without boring the pants off people.
[/quote]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
how about practising what you preach and post something different without boring the pants off the rest of us.
that might start a new trend?

23

muckles:

jakethesnake:

muckles:
Sadly from my experience of doing 70 hours of DCPC courses is that generally the instructors are poor, (Just because you can drive a truck doesn’t mean you have the skills to impart that information to a group of people) the course content is poor, (much seems to be regurgitated from the Transport Managers CPC, but not changed make it work from a Drivers view point), the whole thing is really a box ticking exercise. It could have been so much better, (but nobody wants that, Government, Industry or Drivers)
So for the next 35 hours, I’ll sit in the classroom, keep quiet, tick the box get the card.

Yep, you are quite correct muckles. Most I would imagine are not trained to instruct or deliver a lesson in a classroom hence all the poor courses.
It’s exactly the same as a lorry driver trying to teach another lorry driver without any proper instuctional techniques. It very rarely works.
There are some excellent DCPC Instructors though and I was lucky enough to get one during my one and only DCPC course.
Still reckon an awful lot depends on the attitude of the drivers attending the course. (reading on here…appalling)

Having done many courses in my time, some haulage related, some not, I can say the instructor can make a difference between and engaged group and an uninterested group, this includes drivers, even if many don’t want to be there.
One of those times was doing my ADR many years ago, the first instructor no doubt had a really good knowledge of the subject, but his delivery of it was so dry and boring most lost interest, the instructor who came in for the last day was different, he knew how to engage his audience, made it much more of a 2 way process, without letting the one, been there done that driver, tell yet another story and bore the rest of us.

Muckles you have hit the nail on the head there, I have just renewed my ADR and I found the instructor spot on and he engaged the class and kept everyone interested BUT was quick to stop any “bullshine driver talk”!

24

dieseldog999:
Oh yes as usual you are spot on. I also have done many courses and have had the pleasure of assessing instructors on a instructional techniques course. Plenty know their stuff but just do not have the personality to deliver the info over without boring the pants off people.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
how about practising what you preach and post something different without boring the pants off the rest of us.
that might start a new trend?
[/quote]
Behave DD or we will be bored to death with fridge engineering stories again

25

pete smith:

dieseldog999:
Oh yes as usual you are spot on. I also have done many courses and have had the pleasure of assessing instructors on a instructional techniques course. Plenty know their stuff but just do not have the personality to deliver the info over without boring the pants off people.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
how about practising what you preach and post something different without boring the pants off the rest of us.
that might start a new trend?

Behave DD or we will be bored to death with fridge engineering stories again
[/quote]
DD, you are one that seems to take a great interest in my posts, far more than any other member. I may be somethings but one thing I ain’t is boring.

Mr S , please give an explanation for your last sentence? I don’t understand?

26

I agree with you Weeto.
DCPC courses vary massively in quality. One of the reasons these characters who talk nonsense can get away with it is because there’s so many drivers who just put up with it: if the trainer is wrong then he needs to be told it’s wrong and it’s up to him to show his source material to prove his point. From the sounds of it he’s basing his course on anecdotal information.

Another reason is that many drivers just look for the cheapest option rather than getting a recommendation from someone whose opinion they might trust.

For the record JAUPT will approve course content as it’s set out on paper, which is basically topics and timings etc. However, a JAUPT auditor who attends a course will intervene if the trainer is making factual errors: I know for certain of one incident where they stopped the trainer and took them off for “a quiet word” telling them drivers would get infringements for following their “advice”.

27

muckles:
Sadly from my experience of doing 70 hours of DCPC courses is that generally the instructors are poor, (Just because you can drive a truck doesn’t mean you have the skills to impart that information to a group of people) the course content is poor, (much seems to be regurgitated from the Transport Managers CPC, but not changed make it work from a Drivers view point), the whole thing is really a box ticking exercise. It could have been so much better, (but nobody wants that, Government, Industry or Drivers)
So for the next 35 hours, I’ll sit in the classroom, keep quiet, tick the box get the card.

I’m doing my refresher this week and I’m dreading the next 4 days if today was any indication of what’s to come :frowning: . The trainer is a petite young girl who looks about 18 years old and has admitted she’s only been driving trucks for 3 years (!) doing night trunks to Willenhall for DX. She immediately got off on the wrong foot by requesting that we all engage with her and participate, then went on to say “I hate it when I have night trunkers on the courses as they’re the worst because they don’t engage and think they know it all”. Good start then! :smiley:

The problem with trainers like this is that they don’t have the life or work experience on the job to relate to when the drivers in the class inevitably share their stories and experiences in response to the stuff being shown in the module. There is no engagement or discussion, it just results in a wooden “oh right, I don’t know that/that sounds interesting” response from them because they haven’t got a clue what you’re rattling on about. By contrast, the 2014 refresher was from a trainer who had 30 years experience on the job and was still a full-time driver when not doing the courses, so straight away you were on the same wave length and could laugh and joke about stuff you could both relate to which makes the time go by faster.

And of course no DCPC class is complete without the presence of at least one gobby know-it-all who has an answer for absolutely everything and will use any opportunity to inform the room he does heavy haulage and the continent, repeatedly.

I don’t know whether I’ve just been unlucky but I’ve noticed a common theme on this course and also the previous one : driver hygiene! The stench is horrific. It’s not just isolated to one or two drivers, but most of the 25 in the room! Most of them are dressed like chavs : dirty tracky bottoms, t-shirt with egg stains, greasy hair and look and smell like they’ve not been anywhere near soap and water for at least a week. What on earth is going on with that? I’m no ‘clean freak’ by a long chalk but if you’re taking a classroom based course, why would you not smarten yourself up by cleaning yourself, having a shave, putting on some clean clothes and making yourself decent and presentable?

Driver’s Hours and Digital Tachographs tomorrow. Dear God help me. In before “I always understood it to mean that you need to take 30 minute before 6 hours” and then 6 hours of arguing back and forth :frowning: . The only saving grace is the trainer is reasonably aesthetically pleasing to the eye.

28

Best just keep quiet and enjoy the view.

Some years ago Prof Alice Roberts did a series on TV about the origins of the human race. It was fairly dull, and most of it was supposition…but I still avidly watched every minute of it.

:smiley:

th-1.jpg

29

At the end of the day RF420 as long as she gives correct info does it really matter about lack of driving experience. I am sure she might have more interesting stories to keep you happy.
Never been a DCPC instructor but during some courses we used to do we used to show vids presented by Suzi Perry and it was amazing how some suddenly took more interest.
Give the lass a chance. It will be quite daunting for her standing in front of a bunch of lorry drivers. Try to imagine standing in her shoes.

30

How can drivers hours and digital tacho possibly take seven whole hours? This sort of thing is whats wrong with DCPC. I have my last lot and will retire at the end of it.

31

jakethesnake:
At the end of the day RF420 as long as she gives correct info does it really matter about lack of driving experience. I am sure she might have more interesting stories to keep you happy.
Never been a DCPC instructor but during some courses we used to do we used to show vids presented by Suzi Perry and it was amazing how some suddenly took more interest.
Give the lass a chance. It will be quite daunting for her standing in front of a bunch of lorry drivers. Try to imagine standing in her shoes.

Hi Jake. I never said that her lack of driving experience was an issue with regards the delivery of the module content, it was meant to be more of a comparison of the difference between the trainers - and by extension, how bearable/unreadable the 7 hour course is - when one is time-served on the job and other is not. The modules are not even her own work; they have been put together by the HGV training centre where the courses are held so she is simply the ‘delivery vehicle’ from the Microsoft Powerpoint slides on the laptop to the drivers in the room. It’s all very wooden with little deviation from the script.

In general I think that drivers are more responsive and accepting of periodic training when it is delivered by a time-served driver as they are able to engage with the room better, which in turn goes a long way to keeping the drivers attentive. The combination of the wooden delivery method and poor engagement coupled with her clear lack of real life experience on the job does not bode well for a pleasant classroom experience and -rightly or wrongly - feels very ‘teaching your granny to ■■■■ eggs’.

32

You have probably hit the nail on the head RF. Of course the delivery of the training is very important and cannot always be done without prior training.
From what I know anyone delivering a DCPC course does not require training to do so hence there are so many complaints.
A good trainer also requires a type of personality something a lot of trainers seem to lack.
Its fine having plenty driving experience but it’s fairly obvious that’s not enough as most DCPC trainers are lorry/bus drivers or ex drivers and according to this forum most seem to be appalling.

Just to add RF personally I have only done one DCPC course and the trainer was excellent. A good trainer is required but drivers with the correct attitude also makes a big difference to all involved.

33

I said in jest a few days ago about the 6 hour rule. Sure enough, out she comes with it and 2 drivers in the room pulled her up on it. In fairness to her she didn’t argue back, but disappeared out of the room for 30 minutes to go check it out which essentially gaves us an unexpected 30 minute break to chat amongst ourselves :smiley: . She came back in and admitted she was wrong (or more to the point, the Powerpoint slide was). I wonder if anyone here has actually been on a DCPC course where the trainer has got that part correct? It seems that none of them bother to read the actual wording properly and just regurgitate what they’ve heard from other clueless drivers in transport yards and truckstops up and down the country :unamused: .

The ‘safe loading practices’ module was quite comical. At no point during the 7 hour course was there any mention of the pallet weights for securing nor anything about the requirements for a load to be deemed a positive fit. All we were told was that “if the curtain has an XL sticker you don’t need to strap it” (!). I couldn’t be arsed correcting her as the day was really dragging on. Given the focus by DVSA on load security these days you would think that this area would be covered quite extensively in the module.