Eaton Twin Splitter

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS OLD TIME LORRIES, COMPANIES AND DRIVERS (INTERACT
41

Pat Hasler:
Design a vehicle 30 years ago and just stick to that design for ever :laughing:

I was driving trucks in the 80ā€™s that were more advanced than the newest trucks they build here.

Pat, you drive a Freightliner, of course you would say that :laughing:

The facts however are different, even when it comes to Freightliner, the DD15 engine that has been available in the US & Canada since 07 is going to be the next engine in Mercedes Benz trucks in Europe, they wonā€™t see it until Euro6, whenever that is.

Electronically controlled engines were available in American trucks in the early 90s, at least three or four years before the Europeans got them, the same with air suspension, many trucks from the early 80s over here had it, it was not until 40 tonnes that England adopted air suspension really.

You are correct about gearboxes though, but the reason the yanks stick with constant mesh boxes is longevity for one & more importantly the union controlled Eaton Corp sued the arse off of ZF as Paul said, that gave them a virtual monopoly in the market so they had no need to invest money changing things around, the new auto shifters like I shift use a constant mesh box so the reliabilty & longevity questions should be answered, theyā€™ve also given Eaton a push in the right direction & by all accounts their new auto shifter is pretty good.

All they (the Yanks) need to do now is go to disc brakes & put decent headlights on their motors, oh & Peterbilt could try a steering set up that actually turns the front wheels when you turn the steering wheel :laughing:

Paul, I heard the other day that the Paccar MX engine will use something other than DEF (or Ad-blue as everyone else calls it) as a medium to reduce emissions, interestingā€¦

42

Newmercman, you asked if the Twinsplitter was a UK only option on MAN/IVECO, well I donā€™t know about IVECO, but when I was on EBT, one of the German Schmidt subbies had 6 MAN F90 19.402s, a model we never saw in the UK, but they all had Eaton gearboxes; most twin spitters, but a couple had 13 speed Fullers. He was very anti ZF, he taught me most of the German swear words I know, all related to ZF. This was quite amusing as he came from near Friedrichshafen. I have been trying to remember his name but its not coming.

43

Hi Mark, I have not heard anything different about Paccars 13 l MX regards DEF. Perhaps there may be some confusion with Navistars 13 L engine which is the MAN D24 with MASS EGR, or even their 15 l which is the old CAT C 15 block with the MAN head, again M-EGR no DEF reqd. I have not come across any myself but believe those new pro stars Walmart are running are fitted with 13 l maxforce diesels.
Did you get the opportunity to stop at the Mid-America show on the way home? Ollie Dixon posted some picā€™s, on BLB and iirc there was a front axle disc braked Pete or KW there.
I didnā€™t mention in the earlier post that I had a twin splitter in a twin steer ERF matched to a 14l 320 ā– ā– ā– ā– ā– ā– ā– ā–  and a couple of rented MAN 332ā€™s, my favourite gearbox.
Cheers Paul quote=ā€œnewmercmanā€]

Pat Hasler:
Design a vehicle 30 years ago and just stick to that design for ever :laughing:

I was driving trucks in the 80ā€™s that were more advanced than the newest trucks they build here.

Pat, you drive a Freightliner, of course you would say that :laughing:

The facts however are different, even when it comes to Freightliner, the DD15 engine that has been available in the US & Canada since 07 is going to be the next engine in Mercedes Benz trucks in Europe, they wonā€™t see it until Euro6, whenever that is.

Electronically controlled engines were available in American trucks in the early 90s, at least three or four years before the Europeans got them, the same with air suspension, many trucks from the early 80s over here had it, it was not until 40 tonnes that England adopted air suspension really.

You are correct about gearboxes though, but the reason the yanks stick with constant mesh boxes is longevity for one & more importantly the union controlled Eaton Corp sued the arse off of ZF as Paul said, that gave them a virtual monopoly in the market so they had no need to invest money changing things around, the new auto shifters like I shift use a constant mesh box so the reliabilty & longevity questions should be answered, theyā€™ve also given Eaton a push in the right direction & by all accounts their new auto shifter is pretty good.

All they (the Yanks) need to do now is go to disc brakes & put decent headlights on their motors, oh & Peterbilt could try a steering set up that actually turns the front wheels when you turn the steering wheel :laughing:

Paul, I heard the other day that the Paccar MX engine will use something other than DEF (or Ad-blue as everyone else calls it) as a medium to reduce emissions, interestingā€¦
[/quote]

44

Paul, no I know about the International engines, they have 4 radiators to keep everything from melting with the amount of EGR they run, Iā€™ve seen the Walmart ones & assumed they were still running the ISX, it seems strange if theyā€™ve gone for the international engines, most of the reliability issues on post 04 engines are all EGR related & that increased ten fold when they added them stupid DPFs in 07.

As you have an engineering background, what are your thoughts? I reckon SCR is the way to go (well actually Iā€™d prefer pre emissions full stop) that way the engine is allowed to run as efficently as possible & the emmisions are treated after the fact, to me EGR is like breathing in your own ā– ā– ā– ā– ā–  all day, surely that canā€™t be good for an engine!

Oh & to keep to the topic, acd1202, thanks, that answers my question, I know MAN used the 13spd, I myself had it in a 30-291 & a 20-321, I know the trucks you mean, IIRC the 402 was the first of the ā€˜Lamarinā€™ engines to beat the Austrian night driving bans, I recall them having a twin upright exhaust that ran side by side like the later V10 models.

45

Best Box Ever Made-Even better in a 362 MAN Air Assist.
My first experiance was my 1st brand new truck F reg E14 ERF 320 ā– ā– ā– ā– ā– ā– ā–  (At a very lucky young age of 21yrs) ,The keys went over the hedge after 2hrs but after alot of looking to find them we tried again & again until I mastered it!Like said in previous posts it was fastest box around even quicker if you manually changed it.

46

Paul John:

Pat Hasler:

TNT Overniter:
Lots of trucks had twin splitters,iveco,man,erf if you speced them on order you could have them.LIDL at Magna Park had a load of ERF EC10s fitted with them and they were a dream to drive,once you had mastered them.Expensive when they went wrong.I am sure that is the last box they made before they stopped producing gearboxes.

ā€œStopped producing gearboxesā€ ā€¦ come over here and drive the damm out dated antiques they still make here, crash boxes that went of of use in Europe in the 80ā€™s are still made here, but thats the American way :laughing:
Design a vehicle 30 years ago and just stick to that design for ever :laughing:

I was driving trucks in the 80ā€™s that were more advanced than the newest trucks they build here.

Hi Pat, you are correct the North American trucks are behind the times, but with so much European input these days its 5 / 7yrs difference possibly!
TNT overnite, Eaton are based in Cleveland Ohio, and currently produce E/ Fuller 9,13,18 super 10 ( automated top two ) and smart shift automated manual transmissions. Every truck manufacturer supplies them, the competition being Meritor with a ten speed manual and automated version ultrashift, and the I shift from Volvo which is shared with Mack and really being pushed hard in 2010. A few years ago ZF tried to enter the market, but Eaton won a court case preventing them importing or manufacturing for a number of years. Their technology was way ahead, and probably their manufacturing capabilities as well, supplying Daf, MAN and Iveco. Volvo I believe have got around the problem because they are a truck manufacturer not gearbox. I believe Mercedes/ Freightliner will bring their box over to match up with their world platform Detroit Diesel motors. Later this year Paccar will begin manufacturing their 13l MX Daf engine and I think they may find a way to match their engine to a ZF Astronic. With the exception of Mack most large American companies were assemblers , but the European influence is slowly using more of their own manafactured products, and cutting the options list.
Paul

An ā€˜outdated antiqueā€™ thatā€™s always been better to use than a heavy to use slow shifting synchro bag of bolts which the europeans like to use because they donā€™t think that we know how to drive with a proper box.Having said that there are some drivers here who donā€™t know how to use the real thing probably because theyā€™ve never been given the chance to learn.I was driving euro trucks here in the 1990ā€™s such as Mercs with a 16 speed synchro box which was no where near as good to drive as earlier wagons fitted with constant mesh 9 or 13 speed fuller roadrangers but who needs the twin splitter.It was a waste of time with those well proven others available.But like synchro boxes the automated manual idea seems just another way of dumbing down the job.

47

newmercman:
Paul, no I know about the International engines, they have 4 radiators to keep everything from melting with the amount of EGR they run, Iā€™ve seen the Walmart ones & assumed they were still running the ISX, it seems strange if theyā€™ve gone for the international engines, most of the reliability issues on post 04 engines are all EGR related & that increased ten fold when they added them stupid DPFs in 07.

As you have an engineering background, what are your thoughts? I reckon SCR is the way to go (well actually Iā€™d prefer pre emissions full stop) that way the engine is allowed to run as efficently as possible & the emmisions are treated after the fact, to me EGR is like breathing in your own ā– ā– ā– ā– ā–  all day, surely that canā€™t be good for an engine!

Oh & to keep to the topic, acd1202, thanks, that answers my question, I know MAN used the 13spd, I myself had it in a 30-291 & a 20-321, I know the trucks you mean, IIRC the 402 was the first of the ā€˜Lamarinā€™ engines to beat the Austrian night driving bans, I recall them having a twin upright exhaust that ran side by side like the later V10 models.

Hi Mark, I just checked the latest news on Paccar engines and there is no mention of any changes to the European version. Last info posted was at the Mid America show last month. If they were to introduce something different to DEF/ Adblue, it could be problematic with regard to proven test results and distribution. I agree exhaust gas after treatment ( SCR ) is the way to go, as you pointed out it will be breathing in cleaner air.
It is hard to know how many 2010 engines are being run at present, except for feeders probably very few. Most are looking to have them in service second half of the year, Volvo leading the drive with an order for 300 + VNs coming from Knights with the I shift . If Walmart have taken pre 2010 ISX ā– ā– ā– ā– ā– ā– ā– ā–  then I guess they have little confidence in Navistars EGR route, even MAN admit over 400hp you will need SCR or a mix of both, so did ā– ā– ā– ā– ā– ā– ā–  !
Better change GEAR and get back on topic. Paul.

48

As normal Carryfast talking ā– ā– ā– ā– ā– ā– ā– ā–  again :laughing:

The TSO does everything an RT does and more. Why make life difficult when you can just enjoy the ride :sunglasses:



49

Never drove a Twin Splitter, but I certainly spent a few years stirring the other 'boxes in that thread (and the 13 speed Fuller as well). You can change gear in reverse, you just pull it into neutral while reversing and let the revs drop to practically nothing, it will slip in niceley then. Essential when reversing a quarter of a mile or so on tarmacing jobs :wink: . Also crawler in high range was a brilliant gear, but never marked on the guide. The Foden was the same gearbox that I did my driver training and test on, never been bettered in my opinion though I guess the Twin Split must have been similar. Never drove a synchro box, but I know that with a Fuller I could beat most Volvoā€™s and Scaniaā€™s away from traffic lights etc. I could be through 5 cogs while they were still thinking about changing, and the gearbox was far more reliable.
Autoā€™s I would imagine spoil the fun of driving?
Pete.

50

Wheel Nut:
As normal Carryfast talking ā– ā– ā– ā– ā– ā– ā– ā–  again :laughing:

The TSO does everything an RT does and more. Why make life difficult when you can just enjoy the ride :sunglasses:



Blimey Wheelnut I never saw any of those diagrams fitted in any of the fuller equipped wagons that I first drove,except for the TM I think,and I just ignored it and I probably would have given up on the idea if I hadā€™nt have done :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: But honestly thereā€™s nothing difficult about shifting a roadranger itā€™s as easy and as light to use as the the box in the the old school Ford cars and whoā€™d want to miss out on the pleasure of that great mechanical feel through the shift by cutting down the amount of proper gear changes and putting more of them them on the splitter instead of the rangechange.Using something with a good box like the fuller roadranger is one of the pleasures of driving trucks which is becoming just a memory on this side of the Atlantic.

51

windrush:
Never drove a Twin Splitter, but I certainly spent a few years stirring the other 'boxes in that thread (and the 13 speed Fuller as well). You can change gear in reverse, you just pull it into neutral while reversing and let the revs drop to practically nothing, it will slip in niceley then. Essential when reversing a quarter of a mile or so on tarmacing jobs :wink: . Also crawler in high range was a brilliant gear, but never marked on the guide. The Foden was the same gearbox that I did my driver training and test on, never been bettered in my opinion though I guess the Twin Split must have been similar. Never drove a synchro box, but I know that with a Fuller I could beat most Volvoā€™s and Scaniaā€™s away from traffic lights etc. I could be through 5 cogs while they were still thinking about changing, and the gearbox was far more reliable.
Autoā€™s I would imagine spoil the fun of driving?
Pete.

Carryfast:

yappie:
just as i thought carryfast you carnt drive a twinsplitter with or with out a DD !!! :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Not canā€™t just never have because it wasā€™nt in use when I was driving trucks with ā€˜properā€™ fullers in them and I canā€™t understand why anyone could be bothered to spec a twin splitter in a wagon when there was a roadranger available :smiley: and all the rest had euro type synchro boxes :cry: . :unamused: :open_mouth: :laughing: :laughing:

There you go.

"If, "But and "When is back on his mechanical horse again. yet has never done any European work but knows how it should be done, the bloke hasnā€™t driven an Eaton Twin Splitter but comments how a RTO 11609 or RTO 11613 is a better gearbox. Even amongst this thread there are many positive comments about the TSO, these forums are full of For and Against posts about the Eaton.

But to make any kind of comparison you had to use them both :open_mouth:

If someone tells me that an Eaton Twin Splitter is a crap gearbox, that only tells me he either hasnā€™t driven one or cannot use one.

On another thread a comparison is made between Detroit Diesels and a musical instrument. Pianos make a lot of noise too :stuck_out_tongue:

52

Wheel Nut:

windrush:
Never drove a Twin Splitter, but I certainly spent a few years stirring the other 'boxes in that thread (and the 13 speed Fuller as well). You can change gear in reverse, you just pull it into neutral while reversing and let the revs drop to practically nothing, it will slip in niceley then. Essential when reversing a quarter of a mile or so on tarmacing jobs :wink: . Also crawler in high range was a brilliant gear, but never marked on the guide. The Foden was the same gearbox that I did my driver training and test on, never been bettered in my opinion though I guess the Twin Split must have been similar. Never drove a synchro box, but I know that with a Fuller I could beat most Volvoā€™s and Scaniaā€™s away from traffic lights etc. I could be through 5 cogs while they were still thinking about changing, and the gearbox was far more reliable.
Autoā€™s I would imagine spoil the fun of driving?
Pete.

Carryfast:

yappie:
just as i thought carryfast you carnt drive a twinsplitter with or with out a DD !!! :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Not canā€™t just never have because it wasā€™nt in use when I was driving trucks with ā€˜properā€™ fullers in them and I canā€™t understand why anyone could be bothered to spec a twin splitter in a wagon when there was a roadranger available :smiley: and all the rest had euro type synchro boxes :cry: . :unamused: :open_mouth: :laughing: :laughing:

There you go.

"If, "But and "When is back on his mechanical horse again. yet has never done any European work but knows how it should be done, the bloke hasnā€™t driven an Eaton Twin Splitter but comments how a RTO 11609 or RTO 11613 is a better gearbox. Even amongst this thread there are many positive comments about the TSO, these forums are full of For and Against posts about the Eaton.

But to make any kind of comparison you had to use them both :open_mouth:

If someone tells me that an Eaton Twin Splitter is a crap gearbox, that only tells me he either hasnā€™t driven one or cannot use one.

On another thread a comparison is made between Detroit Diesels and a musical instrument. Pianos make a lot of noise too :stuck_out_tongue:

Wheelnut Iā€™ve never driven a Ferrari or a Mini but I know for a fact that a Ferrari is a lot better to drive.As for the comparison between Detroit two strokes and pianos Iā€™ve never seen a piano yet which could move around 35 tonnes+ at 100 mph :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: But as far as I know the Fuller roadranger is also an Eaton product ? and I never said that the twin splitter was crap but itā€™s just difficult,in my opinion that is, to see where the big improvement is over the roadrangerā€™s range change and splitter idea in the real world of driving trucks and it seems that most American operators agree with me,where the Fuller roadranger type box has always been used more than the twin splitter (and Euro type synchro ones which really are ā€˜crapā€™ in my view and on that comparison I have driven both types) ever were.

53

Eaton Twin Split?

Yep, you are so right ā€œjust like marmiteā€. I have as friends that hate the box and many like me who love it. I had a twin splitter in a new 1990 ā€˜325ā€™ ERF and at first hated it mainly because I kept getting a bag of neutrals when coming down the gears. Especially when you really needed the gear?

After a week away with it I absolutly loved the gearbox, so easy and a no stress at all with it, smooth and gentle. I loved the ERF as well even tho it was like looking out a from a post box with its short windscreen. it was nice to have a chocalate brown dash rather than the blue one on the older model. Happy days. That said the Daf I drive today has a blue dash and seats? :blush:

54

who cares whats good or bad !!,if you are given it you drive it and as long as it gives you the peanuts at the end of the day who give a s%*t. :slight_smile:.i do have to say i never drove atruck with a detroit in so i dont know how they perform but I know one thing is that they sound crackin so that would be enough for me.BIT LIKE GO FASTER STRIPES IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

55

Carryfast:
ā€¦Iā€™ve never driven a Ferrari or a Mini but I know for a fact that a Ferrari is a lot better to driveā€¦

You do like talking b&Ā£$0cks dont you? How do you know that for a fact? Itā€™s only your opinion. As for my informed opinion, the Eaton box I drove in a Seddon was the dogs, where as the the one I drove in an Iveco of roughly the same age was a dog (in my humble opinion it very much depended on being fitted correctly in the first place.

56

Scotchbaz:

Carryfast:
ā€¦Iā€™ve never driven a Ferrari or a Mini but I know for a fact that a Ferrari is a lot better to driveā€¦

You do like talking b&Ā£$0cks dont you? How do you know that for a fact? Itā€™s only your opinion. As for my informed opinion, the Eaton box I drove in a Seddon was the dogs, where as the the one I drove in an Iveco of roughly the same age was a dog (in my humble opinion it very much depended on being fitted correctly in the first place.

If only I could buy a Ferrari for the same price as a Mini to prove myself wrong :unamused: :laughing:

57

curnock:
who cares whats good or bad !!,if you are given it you drive it and as long as it gives you the peanuts at the end of the day who give a s%*t. :slight_smile:.i do have to say i never drove atruck with a detroit in so i dont know how they perform but I know one thing is that they sound crackin so that would be enough for me.BIT LIKE GO FASTER STRIPES IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Yeah, who cares? Whats the point of this forum? But give me a truck that sounds good and some peanutsā€¦ :confused:

58

Carryfast:

Scotchbaz:

Carryfast:
ā€¦Iā€™ve never driven a Ferrari or a Mini but I know for a fact that a Ferrari is a lot better to driveā€¦

You do like talking b&Ā£$0cks dont you? How do you know that for a fact? Itā€™s only your opinion. As for my informed opinion, the Eaton box I drove in a Seddon was the dogs, where as the the one I drove in an Iveco of roughly the same age was a dog (in my humble opinion it very much depended on being fitted correctly in the first place.

If only I could buy a Ferrari for the same price as a Mini to prove myself wrong :unamused: :laughing:

Had an MG Metro turbo bout 15 years ago- would have left a Ferrari eating dust from a standing start . . . for the first 50 yards :sunglasses: :laughing:

59

Carryfast:
As for the comparison between Detroit two strokes and pianos Iā€™ve never seen a piano yet which could move around 35 tonnes+ at 100 mph :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

You did have a fair point in your comparisons on your other thread.

Detroit Diesel

Triumph Bonneville

=

OIL LEAKS

60

An ā€˜outdated antiqueā€™ thatā€™s always been better to use than a heavy to use slow shifting synchro bag of bolts which the europeans like to use because they donā€™t think that we know how to drive with a proper box.Having said that there are some drivers here who donā€™t know how to use the real thing probably because theyā€™ve never been given the chance to learn.I was driving euro trucks here in the 1990ā€™s such as Mercs with a 16 speed synchro box which was no where near as good to drive as earlier wagons fitted with constant mesh 9 or 13 speed fuller roadrangers but who needs the twin splitter.It was a waste of time with those well proven others available.But like synchro boxes the automated manual idea seems just another way of dumbing down the job.
[/quote]
I think you will find the twinsplitter was a constant mesh gearbox it just reduced the number of stick movements to get to top gear and was not a way off dumbing down driving.
I was never a big fan myself but i only used one for a odd day here or there and all the people i know who love them have driven them day in dayout and learnt to get the best of them.
I will aggree i would rather a 13 speed roadranger than any of the big synchro gearboxs on offer. But i think given the option now id go for a volvo i shift over the lot.