I’d like to place my bets that Cadburys at Bourneville will be nothing but a museum within 5 years.
jase:
I’d like to place my bets that Cadburys at Bourneville will be nothing but a museum within 5 years.
The way things are going, the whole of the UK will be a museum within five years, the only jobs left will be to dress up as Morris Dancers to be photographed by Japanese tourists.
Harry Monk:
jase:
I’d like to place my bets that Cadburys at Bourneville will be nothing but a museum within 5 years.The way things are going, the whole of the UK will be a museum within five years, the only jobs left will be to dress up as Morris Dancers to be photographed by Japanese tourists.
Happy new year 
Keep smiling lads
Testing in Spain a couple of years ago and a Polish guy in a newish MAN had brought the tyres down from Germany, sat there for a week loading the used tyres back on, then was taking them back. Can’t remember the exact price, but it was LESS than we had worked out it would cost in fuel and tolls!
Harry Monk:
gb1:
Whilst we object to anyone undertaking work at a lower price than we consider sufficient, it’s a symptom of the free-market economy. Any haulier,
providing he considers he can still make profit, would offer a lower rate than his competitors if it secured him the work. The ability to do so is based on a variety of factors, and the East Europeans have an advantage with their wage costs. I do think this will eventually level out as their wage demands increase inline with their general cost of living as the East develops towards Western social standards. In the meantime, East European hauliers will continue to exploit the need for the low haulage costs that we demand in order to keep our own manufacturing industry competitive.
You can’t really blame them! Likewise, you can’t blame the manufacturers/forwarders for trying to get their haulage costs as low as possible.No, you can’t blame anybody for legally taking advantage of the most favourable trading conditions, but the problem is that we have spent the last twenty years systematically dismantling our manufacturing industry, not because it was unprofitable but because it is more profitable to take advantage of the opportunity of arbitrage- essentially when Communism fell manufacturers discovered an army of third-world workers on the doorstep willing to work for a third of our wages.
A typical, and recent example is Cadbury’s plant at Keynsham. It was efficient and profitable, but it was simply more profitable to move the entire operation to Poland and lay off the 500 Keynsham workers, the majority of whom will now be on State Benefits. This is happening everywhere. The difference between the last recession and this one is that this time there will be no jobs to go back to this time.
If I had my way, third-party haulage would not be allowed. A load travelling from the UK to Spain would only be allowed to be carried by a British or Spanish haulier. What is the point of exporting our jobs and wealth to eastern Europe?
If that makes you feel better, the same happening in Poland. For example Polish textile industry is nearly dead, due to all factories moved to Ukraine and far east.
Welcome to the world of Global Economy…
fuse:
If you look at the statistics from vosa when there has been checks it is the foreign operators doing the most wrong,everything from hours to overloading and yes magnents so take your rose tinted glasses off,when you live in this country it takes untill may or somthing to pay the tax man then there is your rates, water rates ,transport to work and thank god I DONT USE THE TRAIN
Well, with VOSA “aiming at foreign lorries” I am not surprised that they find more fault in them.
Yet for example in 2006 Polish fleet was the most modern one in Europe…
And as for the paying tax man - in 2010 the tax freedom day in Poland was 23rd of June.
DoYouMeanMe?:
Testing in Spain a couple of years ago and a Polish guy in a newish MAN had brought the tyres down from Germany, sat there for a week loading the used tyres back on, then was taking them back. Can’t remember the exact price, but it was LESS than we had worked out it would cost in fuel and tolls!
Yeah, off course. Because he’s keen to pay for this job from his own pocket 
Harry Monk:
jase:
I’d like to place my bets that Cadburys at Bourneville will be nothing but a museum within 5 years.The way things are going, the whole of the UK will be a museum within five years, the only jobs left will be to dress up as Morris Dancers to be photographed by Japanese tourists.
I believe that Kraft is a move forward and can see with my own eyes that they are investing a lot of money to bring Bournville factory into the 21 century. and with that a good future for a good and loyal workforce
The above quote is from a man on the ground 
orys:
DoYouMeanMe?:
Testing in Spain a couple of years ago and a Polish guy in a newish MAN had brought the tyres down from Germany, sat there for a week loading the used tyres back on, then was taking them back. Can’t remember the exact price, but it was LESS than we had worked out it would cost in fuel and tolls!Yeah, off course. Because he’s keen to pay for this job from his own pocket
Ring Complog and ask them. They have their own trucks that normally do the job. They only took the trailer with the tyre fitting machines and sleeping/living accommodation (and a few tyres from their Melbourne depot crammed in it )as it would have cost him more in fuel and tolls to fetch the main load themselves. Maybe the fuel is much cheaper in Poland, he did have massive tanks? I don’t know why or how he did it, but can assure you, he was happy enough to sit at the track at Guadix for almost a week. I thought at first he was just after a load down there for a lucrative load back he had, until I found out he was taking the used ones back.
milodon:
not unlike brits doing internals in saudi a while back
But that was a drop in the ocean in comparison. I’d like to think there was nobody on here stupid enough to blame any Eastern European driver, or even his boss, for the situation - they are only earning a living, although some could do with being better at hours compliance and maintenance
I wouldn’t blame the driver or his boss. But it would not be difficult to legislate against a load travelling from the UK to Spain being carried by a Bulgarian haulier by re-introducing a permit system, or to discourage it using the tax system.
We simply have to stop exporting jobs, and I think people are just starting to wake up to that now.
DoYouMeanMe?:
orys:
DoYouMeanMe?:
Testing in Spain a couple of years ago and a Polish guy in a newish MAN had brought the tyres down from Germany, sat there for a week loading the used tyres back on, then was taking them back. Can’t remember the exact price, but it was LESS than we had worked out it would cost in fuel and tolls!Yeah, off course. Because he’s keen to pay for this job from his own pocket
Ring Complog and ask them. They have their own trucks that normally do the job. They only took the trailer with the tyre fitting machines and sleeping/living accommodation (and a few tyres from their Melbourne depot crammed in it )as it would have cost him more in fuel and tolls to fetch the main load themselves. Maybe the fuel is much cheaper in Poland, he did have massive tanks? I don’t know why or how he did it, but can assure you, he was happy enough to sit at the track at Guadix for almost a week. I thought at first he was just after a load down there for a lucrative load back he had, until I found out he was taking the used ones back.
I was refering only to the opinion of Poles who work below the real costs…
Yes, the fuel in Poland is still cheaper, but it’s not a significant difference anymore. Litr of diesel cost a bit over 1 euro (4.40 zÅ‚).
But I can see one point when they run below the costs, but it will be hardly undercutting anyone: much more is shipped from Poland to UK than from UK back, so to spare empty runs, they are getting some stuff like scrap cars for salvage etc. The people who ship these cars pay pennies, and both sides are happy: the guys who buy scrap cars on ebay would not be able to pay any more for transport and for hauliers its always better to take some pennies than to run all the way down empty.
Harry Monk:
I wouldn’t blame the driver or his boss. But it would not be difficult to legislate against a load travelling from the UK to Spain being carried by a Bulgarian haulier by re-introducing a permit system, or to discourage it using the tax system.We simply have to stop exporting jobs, and I think people are just starting to wake up to that now.
Do you think it’s really possible?
Just take a closer look on the train:
Tons of Walter Koops lorries, it’s not too Polish name, but they are Polish registered and driven by Poles. If you ban this, they will reregister their lorries to their country but I doubt that they will sack Poles. The Poles there earn about 6000 to 8000, which is in higher average for Poland. That’s about 300-400 quids per week, but remember that live there is still cheaper. As I know Britons not many will rise their bums from bed to work for such money…
Many lorries are staffed by Poles: G&S, HST, Walter Koops, Norberts, some Italian, Swedish, Dannish hauliers… As long as living costs in Poland are lower, they will accept lower wages and you (or we, if we think about living here I also should count myself) don’t have much chances against them.
Also: if the right for transport will be limited, you might get the job over the Bulgarian from Spain, but to Bulgaria you won’t have a chance against them. So any Eastern Europeanian country will have a huge advantage over you when talking about a run between UK and their country, so this directions will be monopolised by the cheaper Easterners, while on the runs to Spain you will still have to compete with Spaniards. To put the costs down, your boss will lower your wages…
orys:
Also: if the right for transport will be limited, you might get the job over the Bulgarian from Spain, but to Bulgaria you won’t have a chance against them. So any Eastern Europeanian country will have a huge advantage over you when talking about a run between UK and their country, so this directions will be monopolised by the cheaper Easterners, while on the runs to Spain you will still have to compete with Spaniards. To put the costs down, your boss will lower your wages…
Orys has hit the nail on the head again. We cannot compete with the Spaniards even if they use Spanish labour, standards are not as high in Spain, the drivers hours are more relaxed in general and it is much easier for a Spanish farmer to run a fleet of trucks then Farmer Giles in Lincolnshire.
I do miss the old IRFO system and it did segregate the international hauliers, we had a starting block as the UK could generally get a sufficient quota of permits and tramping books. So we could spend 6 or 8 weeks away from home, taking work from the Germans, French and Dutch and they welcomed us with open arms 
Wheel Nut:
…standards are not as high in Spain…
Just a bit off topic: is there any field where some other nation has higher standards than Britain? 
Don’t be silly man.
Big Jon’s dad:
Don’t be silly man.
what about snow clearance?
orys:
Wheel Nut:
…standards are not as high in Spain…Just a bit off topic: is there any field where some other nation has higher standards than Britain?
Very observant Orys 
orys:
Wheel Nut:
…standards are not as high in Spain…Just a bit off topic: is there any field where some other nation has higher standards than Britain?
Yes, immigration
Haha Good points Both snow clearance and immigration 