E.C directive.Driving hours

ASK THE EXPERTS SAFETY, LAW AND WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE FORUM (INTE
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ROG:
I suppose on idea, especially if you had a high value load on, would be to phone the local cops and ask for ‘advice’ :wink: - that then puts the onus of any over-run onto them - get the cops number though for reference - just in case

I should explain further - phone cops at least 30 mins before running out of hours and ask - they direct you to place - place is full - phone them again etc etc
Logging all the calls and the time of each one and the number of each cop that gives you ‘advice’

tachograph:
You can phone the police as many times as you wish but unless there are unforeseen circumstances I think you’ll find it’s still your responsibility to organise your run in such a way that you can park up before running out of hours :wink:

OK, the run has been organised properly but there is simply no-where to park in either your first or second planned choices and this happens six times in one month - what is the driver supposed to do :question: - reserve a ■■■■■■■■■■■■ in advance :exclamation:

Actually chaps, ROG isn’t wide of the mark here… ( :open_mouth: Did I really say that? :grimacing:)

There is a yellow card system for high-value loads, which is an FTA initiative without the force of law, but never having had anything to do with it, I’ll not comment on that. :sunglasses:

When it comes to dangerous goods, there’s normal dangerous goods and then there’s High Consequence Dangerous Goods (HCDG.) If there are HCDGs being carried, there is a legal requirement that the driver should be in posession of a ‘Dangerous Load Card’ issued by the vehicle owner. HCDGs are the most horribly dangerous of dangerous goods and are specifically listed as such in section 1.10.5 of ADR. When the HCDG system was implemented, it sought to keep certain types of dangerous goods from falling into the hands of terrorists by the use of enhanced security procedures. The concept of HCDG also applies to the dangerous goods Regulations relating to other modes of transport such as railways (RID), ships (IMDG) and aeroplanes (IATA.) That’s actually joined-up thinking, so there’s hope for the regulators yet. :grimacing:

Under the HCDG system that applies to road vehicles, the advice from the DfT (TRANSEC) is that the carrier (vehicle owner) should consider pre-booking the vehicle into a secure site and instruct the driver that this is where he/she is to park that evening. As regards aking for advice from the Police, I can tell you that that very point is included in the ‘Consortium’ ADR course as used by approx half (65ish) of the authorised ADR training providers in the UK. BTW folks, a currently serving Police officer is in charge of the ‘Consortium’ scheme, so I’d say it’s good advice. :smiley:

22

dieseldave:

ROG:
I suppose on idea, especially if you had a high value load on, would be to phone the local cops and ask for ‘advice’ :wink: - that then puts the onus of any over-run onto them - get the cops number though for reference - just in case

I should explain further - phone cops at least 30 mins before running out of hours and ask - they direct you to place - place is full - phone them again etc etc
Logging all the calls and the time of each one and the number of each cop that gives you ‘advice’

tachograph:
You can phone the police as many times as you wish but unless there are unforeseen circumstances I think you’ll find it’s still your responsibility to organise your run in such a way that you can park up before running out of hours :wink:

OK, the run has been organised properly but there is simply no-where to park in either your first or second planned choices and this happens six times in one month - what is the driver supposed to do :question: - reserve a ■■■■■■■■■■■■ in advance :exclamation:

Actually chaps, ROG isn’t wide of the mark here… ( :open_mouth: Did I really say that? :grimacing:)

There is a yellow card system for high-value loads, which is an FTA initiative without the force of law, but never having had anything to do with it, I’ll not comment on that. :sunglasses:

When it comes to dangerous goods, there’s normal dangerous goods and then there’s High Consequence Dangerous Goods (HCDG.) If there are HCDGs being carried, there is a legal requirement that the driver should be in posession of a ‘Dangerous Load Card’ issued by the vehicle owner. HCDGs are the most horribly dangerous of dangerous goods and are specifically listed as such in section 1.10.5 of ADR. When the HCDG system was implemented, it sought to keep certain types of dangerous goods from falling into the hands of terrorists by the use of enhanced security procedures. The concept of HCDG also applies to the dangerous goods Regulations relating to other modes of transport such as railways (RID), ships (IMDG) and aeroplanes (IATA.) That’s actually joined-up thinking, so there’s hope for the regulators yet. :grimacing:

Under the HCDG system that applies to road vehicles, the advice from the DfT (TRANSEC) is that the carrier (vehicle owner) should consider pre-booking the vehicle into a secure site and instruct the driver that this is where he/she is to park that evening. As regards aking for advice from the Police, I can tell you that that very point is included in the ‘Consortium’ ADR course as used by approx half (65ish) of the authorised ADR training providers in the UK. BTW folks, a currently serving Police officer is in charge of the ‘Consortium’ scheme, so I’d say it’s good advice. :smiley:

That must not work all the time then Dave. A mate of mine (whom Rikki knows) got prosecuted for exceeding his driving hours by 25 minutes. He was driving for Prestons of Potato, he had hazardous goods on board, he was caught up in an accident , well not the accident itself but the resulting delays. He wrote the reason for his derogation from the drivers hours when he parked up in Chesterfield Truclstop. He only got a couple of hundred quid fine and called before the North Eastern TC. :wink:
And yes they knew all about the delays from the accident and they knew all about the dangerous stuff he was carrying.

23

Mike-C:
That must not work all the time then Dave. A mate of mine (whom Rikki knows) got prosecuted for exceeding his driving hours by 25 minutes. He was driving for Prestons of Potato, he had hazardous goods on board, he was caught up in an accident , well not the accident itself but the resulting delays. He wrote the reason for his derogation from the drivers hours when he parked up in Chesterfield Truclstop. He only got a couple of hundred quid fine and called before the North Eastern TC. :wink:
And yes they knew all about the delays from the accident and they knew all about the dangerous stuff he was carrying.

Hi Mike, yes mate, that’s spot-on, cos it doesn’t quite work like that on every occasion.

HCDG has a very clearly written definition with very clear rules attached.
(As from 22/07/2005 in the UK.)

However, when it comes to the more mundane ‘ordinary’ dangerous goods, there’s still a system for getting parked-up correctly. This is quite often forgotten by carriers and drivers alike, but IMHO there’s far less of an excuse for a carrier not to know this stuff. After all, that’s exactly why they have to appoint a properly qualified DGSA and why it’s the DGSA’s job to see to it that the carrier is aware of the Regs. :wink:

Without knowing exactly which substances were on board the said vehicle, in what amount(s) and the date of the offence, I can only give a ‘general’ example of what a driver ought to do when it comes to parking-up at the end of a day. First off, the carrier ought to have told the driver whether ADR’s ‘supervision’ rules apply to the load, but many carriers simply don’t bother to tell the driver this info. :frowning:
If only they looked in the right part of the Regs, they’d find the applicable “S” code(s) for the ‘stuff’ on board the vehicle. :unamused:

Once the “S” code is known, then this kicks in:

ADR 8.4.1:
Vehicles carrying dangerous goods in the quantities shown in special provisions S1 (6) and S14 to S24 of Chapter 8.5 for a given substance according to Column (19) of Table A of Chapter 3.2 shall be supervised or alternatively may be parked, unsupervised, in a secure depot or secure factory premises. If such facilities are not available, the vehicle, after having been properly secured, may be parked in an isolated position meeting the requirements of (a), (b) or (c) below:

(a) A vehicle park supervised by an attendant who has been notified of the nature of the
load and the whereabouts of the driver;

(b) A public or private vehicle park where the vehicle is not likely to suffer damage from
other vehicles; or

(c) A suitable open space separated from the public highway and from dwellings, where
the public does not normally pass or assemble.
The parking facilities permitted in (b) shall be used only if those described in (a) are not available, and those described in (c) may be used only if facilities described in (a) and (b) are not available.

My guess in the example you gave is that VOSA was of the opinion that there was a “suitable” place that the driver could have stopped, rather than the driver opting for the creature comforts of a truckstop. I also guess that the driver was charged with an hours offence, rather than an ADR offence though… maybe.

If it was an hours offence and the driver attempted to justify the 25 mins extra driving by saying he had dangerous goods on board, then IMHO it might possibly have met the criterion of: to ensure the safety of “persons, the vehicle or its load,” but it would also depend on what was available to the driver at the time and at the place where he/she exceeded their permitted drivers’ hours. My last guess is that the court agreed with the view that the excess driving wasn’t justifiable in the particular circumstances of the case.

The reason that the date of the offence might be important is that up to and including midnight on 09/05/2004, it was the responsibility of the driver to know the above, but there was an easier system for knowing this. As from 10/05/2004, a more complicated system came in, but at the same time, the responsibility passed very squarely to the carrier to let drivers know ADR’s requirements relating to the load.

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Yeah it was prior to 2004 Dave, and you’re correct it was an hours offence and not an ADR one. And correct again, they where of the view that he could of stopped sooner. Still, lets not deter everyone from writing “had to get to safe parking” on the back of their tachos :smiley:
I’m certain that you can write it on every tacho on every day you use one, the only limitation may be the TC saying they’ve had enough !! :smiley: :smiley: