Duty Time and extending the 10hr day

under what circumstances can your TM extend the 10hr driving day and or the 15 duty day.

TMs cannot change the law.
.
Eu rules? Single manned?
And you do mean a 15hr spread*, not 15hr duty, don’t you?
.
Off the top of my head, and outside of unforeseen/emergency/breakdown, which are covered in the regs, never.
There is summat about extending a day to start a weekend break at home depot, after 2 weekends away, in mainland Europe, I think, but the UK is not mainland Europe.
.
TMs can authorise nowt the law says is illegal.
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*mea culpa, but15hr spread is easier to say.

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I suspect you’re getting at the new rules regarding unforeseen or exceptional circumstances.
(August 2020, see Regulation - 2020/1054 - EN - EUR-Lex)

Basically it has to be the last shift of the week, your work must be completed (deliveries or collections) and you’re on your way back to the operating centre for a Weekly Rest, and you must have been unexpectedly delayed by one of these things: extreme weather event, delays to a ferry service, breakdown of your vehicle or (verifiable) accident on the roads.

If you meet all of those four requirements, you can exceed daily or weekly driving time by one hour without any pre-requisite, or by two hours if you take an extra 30 minute break immediately before doing the extra driving.
You need to do a printout (preferably two, one for you and one for the TM) and detail the reasons of the infringement.

This cannot be planned for by an operator, and if it is happing with some frequency they can expect DVSA to come calling at the operating centre for an investigation

Like Franglais said, the TM cannot authorise breaking the law, and they cannot tell you to use the new rules just when it suits them for you to have an extra long day

My reply to the o/p’ s question would be in the form of 3 more questions.

Starting with …

Why are you bothered?
(Unless you were daft enough to let them, and then go along with it.:roll_eyes:)

Why would you want to go along with it anyway in the first place?

Are 15 hour days with 10 hour drives not enough for you, and the drivers hours in general not excessive enough?

Only time I would ever contemplate it is in unforseen circumstances, the type of which that has already pointed out.
Even then I would maybe just opt to park up and leave them to solve the problem.

What the other 3 said , none ! It’s your licence not theirs , if they don’t like it chuck keys at them followed by stick job where sun don’t shine

Ok thats what i though, there is a lot of obscure stuff that im not aware of, which is why i joined TN
Thank you

Yep that is what TN is all about, and I’m assuming you are a new driver.

Can I just apologise if I came across in my reply to you a bit abrasive…I’ll try and explain why.

It just annoys me in this job how many firms try and push their drivers to the absolute limit (and in this case beyond it.)
I’m assuming this was/is the case with you?

Also (maybe even more so) it annoys me how and why drivers allow themselves to be pushed in this way with no resistance but lots of moaning…to the wrong people.

In my experience firms will do what tf they can get away with, and if drivrs continue to allow themselves to be treated somewhere between badly and like crap, these firms continue to push the boundaries…up to the point as in this case where they expect you to run bent.

As I said the working time limits in this job and the minimal rest times between maxing out,.are effin ridiculous,.and in my view make a mockery of H&S… which ‘they’ continuosly try and tell you (mostly in other,.and more trivial cases) that it is soooo important.

My advice to you as new driver is set your own safe sensible pace from day 1, do not allow them to push you to the limit,.and certainly not above the legal limit, keep legal,.and there is nothing they can do.
Oh yeah…and ignore what the other heroes/idiots are prepared to do.:roll_eyes:

It makes for a more easier life, and career and delays your first heart attack…which otherwise is inevitable, trust me I’ve seen it time and time again over the years.
Running like your arse is on fire routinely, only lasts so long and then takes it’s toll.

The world will not end if your bog rolls and beans are late at Tesco.

Good advice mate…take it or leave it.
Good luck

im 52 been driving tacho since i was 23, but our new TM keeps coming up with obscure rules, some i know are an abuse of interpretation others im not sure of

This link should give most of what you need to know.

If it isn’t clear how that applies to any specific instructions you get, just ask again.

If your TM starts talking about “grey areas” at any point, or different “interpretations” of the rules, you can be sure he is either a fool or a liar.
If pushed it sometimes pays to ask for instructions in writing (email / text etc) as this may make the TM think twice.

Depending on the size of your company, whether you have been there two years or longer, whether there are other managers to talk to, might influence how you go on.

Ah… One of those is he? Is he newly qualified? Or is he of the old-school-KCMG A-hole variety?

Depending on your situation, and your relationship with this person, you could challenge him as to how he keeps on top of his CPD to satisfy the TC, eg has he completed a TM Refresher within the past five years as TCs say TMs should? Where does his “new info/guidance” come from?

There are new/changed rules & guidance constantly finding their way into the system every week, but this info is accessible to all who might be interested, or simply want to keep on top of things. Any claims he makes should be easily verified, just get him to quote the official source of his new info.

Purely for example, there was one on Saturday about “enforcement weighing of vehicles”, not relevant to your issue but you can see what I mean about the constant changes to guidance.

Here’s one that could potentially be relevant for you, newly updated guidance on Friday 24th: The heading is “Report a heavy goods vehicle (HGV) driver or company if you think they’re breaking safety rules.” :wink:

relatively new, but also ops manager

Ok right then…so you aint new,.and over 50…ok
I’m a bit surprised you aint kicked off with them in that case, but maybe you have, who knows.
Btw ‘Ops manager’ :joy:…his over inflated job title says it all.
Is he a Wing Commander in charge of a squadron of Lancasters by any chance? :roll_eyes:

Anyhoo…
Ask him to send you a txt next time he tries and take the p.
When he asks why say,…
‘Just so I have a record of what you are asking me to do’.

I’ll guarantee he will then knock on the head what he has asked you to do.
Then he may (or may not) go down the ‘He’s a troublemaker route’ .
So then watch out for grounds of ‘constructive dismissal’, but before it gets that far, I would look at the advice that Zac has given to you.
These types of ■■■■ s should not be allowed in transport and driver management.

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he onpy qualified in 2022 buddy but thanks

Maybe I’m being obtuse/ignorant/both (I’m okay with it btw), but I thought all relevant EU law was written into UK law at the point of the UK leaving. I’m not sure if subsequent amendments were necessarily written into UK law. For international (EU) travel of course it would be relevant. Perhaps the wise one can enlighten me…

We were still in the EU when 2020/1054 came in, so yes, that is part of our legislation

This is just one part of a legislative bundle known as the EU Mobility Package (loads of stuff on line, I’ve added just two links from the many available).

The other parts of the package may or may not be adopted, we cannot say for sure yet, but if we DO adopt all parts of it, one thing it will mean is that from 01/01/25, drivers will need 56 days worth of records. We’re just going to have to wait and see what happens, but some stuff I’ve seen coming from DVSA seems to simply assume it’s coming.

or

@zac_a Maybe it was within the implementation period. It is on the UK legislation site I see.

There was, and still is, a lot of hangovers from Brexit.

Funnily enough, no one mentioned all this aftermath of trickiness during their for/against campaigning.
I’m often reminded of Johnny Rotten’s comment at a ■■■ Pistols gig in the US (from The Great Rock and Roll Swindle) “Ever get the feeling you’ve been had?”

@zac_a When Scotland was going through its own referendum back in 2014, I was pulling my hair out at the SNP not realising what a colossal headache it would have been to separate. Leaving the EU isn’t actually that bad in comparison to what that would have been like.

Yes, it would have been pretty insane - a hard border just beyond Berwick upon Tweed… :roll_eyes:

I suspect the SNP have had their moment, their police-related problems are, I would imagine, going to bite them hard, together with Humza Yousaf’s ill-advised attitude towards his power sharing pals, and making independence their central issue.

We’re not far from the border, and there’s always been plenty of cultural crossover between the two areas, so I can fairly easily imagine being Scottish and not wanting to vote for the SNP

Perhaps they are not obscure rules, but ones your prev TM chose not to apply or allowed you to get around.
Perhaps having a non-confrontational chat may help smooth things out, and despite doing tacho for 23 yrs, you may also learn something. Be open to change and updates :grinning: