Here is what I have read: Most vehicles used for the carriage of goods by road and with a maximum permissible weight ( including any trailer or semi trailer) of over 3.5 ton are in scope of EU rules.
It has been suggested there is no need for a Tachograph or Operators Licence when using a Duel Purpose Vehicle with Trailer, could anyone provide a link to this information please. Someone on a previous thread also suggested it was possible to carry almost 7.5 ton in this way? Can this be right?
No need for o licence or dcpc, but does have to have tacho, for own goods use or hire & reward, unless under an exemption.
No you cant carry 7.5t heck thats a lot, think you need an 18t rigid to carry that can be a push on a 12t.
The plated train weight can be pushing 7t for some 4x4 (I have a 6.3t train weight shogun on the fleet) but is only ever gunna be able to tow 3.5t on overrun brakes minus even the lightest 3.5t trailer weight at say 800kg you can have a load of circa 2800kg plus in region of 500kg in a 4x4.
You also have to be careful with the ‘dual purpose’ description, are very few-if any 4x4 of the passenger type now that are under the unladen weight reg if that, a disco td5 or an older shogun are not for instance, a new disco is way way over. However then you just ignore yhe dual purpose exemption & go for the passenger vehicle one- note you can’t do this with a single cab pickup or a 4x4 commercial ie they do discos & shoguns as
Vans
You maybe confused ref the 7.5t bit & weights with the fact that a 3.5t van (noteinot a dual purpose vehicle, & light trailer esp ones with a 7t train weight can have a larger load capacity than a heavy built 7.5t rigid which can carry as low as 2t (worst case) vs the van & trailer yhst csn take up to 4.5t (best case)
It was said with a pick-up and 3.5t trailer you can get roughly the same payload in total as a 7.5t lorry. (ie 3.5t of payload spread across pick-up and trailer)
It was not said you did not need a tachograph, there is no useful exemption for tachographs for commercial towing if you intend exceeding a 50km radius. The dual purpose exemption applies to o-licensing.
Qualifying for dual-purpose and a decent tow capacity means pick-ups only really as mentioned passenger cars are all too heavy unladen to qualify. Isuzu D-max and Ford Ranger on certain models have the max 3.5t tow capacity Navaras and Mitsubishis are only around 2.7t. I would say the Ford is the better tow vehicle but the Isuzu has a very generous 5 year warranty. I believe both are tachograph ready and is a dealer option.
If you want to be legal it’s a pick-up with a tachograph and that’s it apart from the required calibrations for the tacho. Unless you already hold an operator’s licence for trucks I would not consider any other options as they are disproportionately more aggro. Another thing against 4x4 passenger cars like Discovery/Shogun etc. is that the tacho must be installed so the driver can easily see and operate the controls from the driver’s seat and this is very difficult to do in a way that doesn’t essentially wreck the interior of the car. In our Discovery it’s half stuck out of the cupholders and looks terrible.
As per the previous thread you started unless you set out exactly what you want to do no-one can give you cast-iron advice.
Yes, the van is 3.5 ton gross weight.
The trailer will only be used occasionally for larger equipment, is quite short so I believe it is less than 3.5 ton and is an Ifor Williams? or Brian James? something of that quality. The trailer and van will transport customers machinery too and from a workshop for service and repairs. Other drivers are already happily driving this combination without a Standard Operators Licence, tacho etc. Incidentally some equipment will be within 30km and some further than 30km.
The reason for inquiring about a duel purpose vehicle was to find a way to overcome the above and offer a solution rather than tell them what they don’t really want to hear. The 4x4 is not a pickup so it’s weight may be a problem if it’s even considered dual purpose that is.
Global.
global:
Yes, the van is 3.5 ton gross weight.
The trailer will only be used occasionally for larger equipment, is quite short so I believe it is less than 3.5 ton and is an Ifor Williams? or Brian James? something of that quality. The trailer and van will transport customers machinery too and from a workshop for service and repairs. Other drivers are already happily driving this combination without a Standard Operators Licence, tacho etc. Incidentally some equipment will be within 30km and some further than 30km.
The reason for inquiring about a duel purpose vehicle was to find a way to overcome the above and offer a solution rather than tell them what they don’t really want to hear. The 4x4 is not a pickup so it’s weight may be a problem if it’s even considered dual purpose that is.
Global.
Its 50 km not 30 km for the regs
If the 4x4 looks like a basic family type 4x4 such as a land rover discovery for example then that would be a dual purpose vehicle and exempt O licence
As the job entails moving machinery for clients then it is not tacho exempt no matter what is used if the combination of the plated weights exceeds 3.5 tonnes and if they are doing so then they are illegal
The tacho exemption is for own goods within 50km for base where the driving is not the main part of the job
To be legal they would be better off getting a flatbed 3.5t van if 1.5t payload is enough.
The only other tacho and o-licence free option is a dual-purpose qualifying 4x4 converted fully to lpg and remove the petrol tank but this would still be limited to a 50km radius.
O-licence isn’t an issue for drivers but personally I would not be happy to drive without a tacho with the circumstances outlined. It would be worth getting some paper discs and making manual records at least as supporting evidence the hours rules are being complied with.
Can I jump in on this thread and ask a similar question, with I hope enough info to get your collective wisdom?
Considering setting up a new business whereby I move clients vehicles from their homes in the UK to a location they can use them in Europe. SO I’m moving goods in connection with my business, which means an operators licence if over 3.5t (which it will be).
However, if I use a 4x4 pickup and smallish 5th wheel trailer, both modified to give a total train weight of around 6t, giving me a payload of somewhere between 2 - 3t, do I need an operators licence? (I know I will need a tacho due to weight).
I’m thinking not, as dual purpose vehicle, but would value your oinions please.
Dual-purpose vehicle and trailer
combinations
A dual purpose vehicle and any trailer
drawn by it, is identified as being exempt
from operator licensing under existing
legislation. Therefore, where you use a
4x4 and trailer, an operator’s licence will
not be required.
Examples of dual purpose vehicles can include
4x4 all-terrain vehicles or even estate cars —
vehicles which are constructed or adapted for
the carriage of both goods and passengers.
That looks like a dual purpose vehicle with a fifth wheel to me
So, to bring other threads together this is what understand, please correct anything as necessary.
Operators Licence.
Any vehicle or combination of vehicles such as a trailer which has the potential (even empty) to carry over 3.5 ton will require an Operator’s Licence.
To hold an Operator Licence a Certificate of Professional Competence in Road Transport and Haulage will be needed either by the organisation or held externally.
An Operating Centre and the ability to show they can financially maintain the vehicles as well as being of good character are all further requirements.
Tachograph.
Any vehicle or combination of vehicles such as a trailer which has the potential (even empty) to carry over 3.5 ton will require a tachograph on the basis the journey’s will be for hire or reward. The 50km exemption is for those transporting equipment or tools for their own use. For example a builder who drives tools and materials to a customers premises to carry out works.
Dual Purpose Vehicle + Trailer Combination.
A 4x4 all terrain vehicle or even an estate car constructed or adapted for the carriage of both goods and passangers is exempt from an Operator’s Licence.
However, as above, any vehicle or combination of vehicles such as a trailer which has the potential (even empty) to carry over 3.5 ton will require a tachograph on the basis the journey’s will be for hire or reward.
global:
Dual Purpose Vehicle + Trailer Combination.
A 4x4 all terrain vehicle or even an estate car constructed or adapted for the carriage of both goods and passangers is exempt from an Operator’s Licence.
However, as above, any vehicle or combination of vehicles such as a trailer which has the potential (even empty) to carry over 3.5 ton will require a tachograph on the basis the journey’s will be for hire or reward.
global.
Not to make new topic was looking to clarify the following.
If I have a 4x4 Isuzu Trooper, and a trailer Gross weight 2700kg and Im using it to carry my own cars, that I have bought from ebay, gumtree, etc.
Do I still need a tachograph as it is not for hire or reward, but rather for my own use?
