I thought that if you started a journey under EU rules then the whole of that journey is under EU rules - but what happens if you fall in and out of scope when your dropping off machinery ? i.e you drop a trailer and mini digger off so you now drop below the 3.5 t limit?
im sure most units weigh more than 3 and half tonne?? 
SteveBarnsleytrucker:
im sure most units weigh more than 3 and half tonne??
most weigh more than 7.5T
Assuming you’re talking about a 4x4 and trailer type thing and sometimes you’ve got the trailer hitched and other times you haven’t. Basically you need the digicard or paper disc in if the trailer’s on and you’re engaged in commercial work. Theoretically you then need to be keeping a logbook or diary for the rest of the week for driving and other work, if the trailer’s not hitched. Personally if you’re on paper discs and unless you’re obviously towing weekly or more I would just bin the discs and if pulled say you’ve done no other in scope driving. The idea of a self-employed person keeping a diary of what work they do for six months is mental.
thats what i thought. didn’t want to feel daft though! 
Jenson Button:
I thought that if you started a journey under EU rules then the whole of that journey is under EU rules - but what happens if you fall in and out of scope when your dropping off machinery ? i.e you drop a trailer and mini digger off so you now drop below the 3.5 t limit?
You might as well just leave your tachograph recording because even though the journey without a trailer does not come within scope of the regulations, the driver does come in scope of the regulations. For the week. You could add a not on the rear of the chart to denote driving under EU regs or Domestic regs. Or if on digital (i’m guessing a bit here) change it to out of scope mode for Domestic regs work.
Mike-C:
Jenson Button:
I thought that if you started a journey under EU rules then the whole of that journey is under EU rules - but what happens if you fall in and out of scope when your dropping off machinery ? i.e you drop a trailer and mini digger off so you now drop below the 3.5 t limit?You might as well just leave your tachograph recording because even though the journey without a trailer does not come within scope of the regulations, the driver does come in scope of the regulations. For the week. You could add a not on the rear of the chart to denote driving under EU regs or Domestic regs. Or if on digital (i’m guessing a bit here) change it to out of scope mode for Domestic regs work.
Yep, unless you’re deliberately setting out to run bent there’s no real benefit in extra driving time by pulling the card for say the return journey after you’ve unhitched a trailer. I run 4x4s and 3.5t trailers and it works fine if driven by a full-time driver whose got their card in an in-scope vehicle of some sort all week, once you get into the odd bit of in scope driving with the trailer here and there it’s a total PITA.
3.5ton van etc pulling a trailer that takes it over 3.5ton train weight has always had to have tacho
Now have to have o licence aswell
If for hire and reward
I think Mike-C’s advice is about right.
Don’t forget however, on any day where mixed EU and Domestic activities take place, the domestic driving limit of 10 hours and duty limit of 11 hours MUST still be obeyed.
The two sets of rules do not work well together and mixed activities are best avoided - depending on who stops you at the side of the road.
If it was me - I would operate to EU rules for the full shift, record everything as normal. But that isn’t what the regs say.
If they’re going to continue with the silly trailer tacho requirement they’re really going to need to change it so the week can start from when you first do some in scope driving.
shep532:
I think Mike-C’s advice is about right.Don’t forget however, on any day where mixed EU and Domestic activities take place, the domestic driving limit of 10 hours and duty limit of 11 hours MUST still be obeyed.
The two sets of rules do not work well together and mixed activities are best avoided - depending on who stops you at the side of the road.
If it was me - I would operate to EU rules for the full shift, record everything as normal. But that isn’t what the regs say.
So if you drive domestic in a morning - say 8am until 11am - then EU in the afternoon - are you saying that you are still limited by the 10 hours drive and 11 hours duty in 24 hours ?
I can see it the other way round - where if you drove EU in the morn and then Dom in the afternoon you would be limited to 10 hours drive and 11 hours duty, as driving under EU is counted as driving under dom, but I thought that driving under dom is counted as other work under EU ■■?
Jenson Button:
shep532:
I think Mike-C’s advice is about right.Don’t forget however, on any day where mixed EU and Domestic activities take place, the domestic driving limit of 10 hours and duty limit of 11 hours MUST still be obeyed.
The two sets of rules do not work well together and mixed activities are best avoided - depending on who stops you at the side of the road.
If it was me - I would operate to EU rules for the full shift, record everything as normal. But that isn’t what the regs say.
So if you drive domestic in a morning - say 8am until 11am - then EU in the afternoon - are you saying that you are still limited by the 10 hours drive and 11 hours duty in 24 hours ?
I can see it the other way round - where if you drove EU in the morn and then Dom in the afternoon you would be limited to 10 hours drive and 11 hours duty, as driving under EU is counted as driving under dom, but I thought that driving under dom is counted as other work under EU ■■?
Have a read of GV262 page 29 - Mixed EU & Domestic. It says
Driving limits
GB domestic limit (a maximum of 10 hours of driving a day) must always be obeyed. But at any time
when you are actually driving under the EU rules you must obey all the rules on EU driving limits.
Other duty limits
GB domestic limit (i.e. no more than 11 hours on duty) must always be obeyed. But when working under EU rules you must also obey all the rules on breaks, daily rest (only on those days when actually driving) and weekly rest.
What you say about driving under domestic counting as work under EU is correct, but the book clearly states on a day where both activities take place the domestic limits must still be obeyed.
As I said - stick to tacho all shift and you won’t go wrong (in my opinion).
I suspect these rules are to stop something like: 5 hrs driving 3.5t van non stop, then get in 7.5t, record that as 5 hours work and drive 4.5h, 45m break, 4.5h(ignoring WTD) … that sort of thing. Not put a lot of thought into the example though!!
Ask a VOSA TE if they will bother with the 11 hours domestic regs duty time if also under EU regs in the same shift ?
Every time I have asked they say no because they deem the domestic regs to be so out of date (1968) that its silly to do so
They will stick to the max 10 hours driving time for the domestic regs because that matches up with the max daily driving time which can be done under EU regs
Drive for 5 hours on each set of regs and that is the max 10 driving for the domestic regs but only 5 driving for EU regs
ROG:
Ask a VOSA TE if they will bother with the 11 hours domestic regs duty time if also under EU regs in the same shift ?
Every time I have asked they say no because they deem the domestic regs to be so out of date (1968) that its silly to do soThey will stick to the max 10 hours driving time for the domestic regs because that matches up with the max daily driving time which can be done under EU regs
Drive for 5 hours on each set of regs and that is the max 10 driving for the domestic regs but only 5 driving for EU regs
The only problem I have with that is that any driving under domestic is clearly not driving under EU - it is work.
Therefore, drive van 4 hours, get in 7.5t and I haven’t done any driving. I would manually record work for the 4 hours and if stopped by VOSA say “I was working for 4 hours”. There’s no records for the driving of the van. it’s crazy
It’s a silly set of rules.