A friend of mine is driving class 1 for a local firm delivering steel. He starts his driving at 7am every day. He always has loads of breaks as he tips throuout the duration of his driving, but they arent always neccessarilly in the right order or place. He is usually back to base for 12 - 1pm so is never seriously exceeding driving hours, but nevertheless he isnt taking his breaks at the right times or for the right length of time. He only drives 5 days a week so prob never even exceeds 25 hours a week total driving. What sort of penalty would he incurr if caught doing this■■?
Doesn’t seem like very long shifts, 5 - 6 hours so he may not even need any breaks. With shifts that short and taking out the times for deliveries etc he would be unlikely to accumulate 4.5 hours driving and if he doesn’t exceed 6 hours he doesn’t require a WTD break either. Even if he does go over 6 hours a couple of 15 minute breaks will cover the WTD requirements.
The_Jammer:
A friend of mine is driving class 1 for a local firm delivering steel. He starts his driving at 7am every day. He always has loads of breaks as he tips throuout the duration of his driving, but they arent always neccessarilly in the right order or place. He is usually back to base for 12 - 1pm so is never seriously exceeding driving hours, but nevertheless he isnt taking his breaks at the right times or for the right length of time. He only drives 5 days a week so prob never even exceeds 25 hours a week total driving. What sort of penalty would he incurr if caught doing this■■?
If he’s doing 25 hours driving over 5 days then he’s not complying to the driver hours regulations, I would have thought that he really needs to check more precisely what driving hours he’s doing, though if as you say he spends plenty of time tipping then he’s probably not exceeding the driving hours.
Also does he finish work when he returns to base or does he then do some form of other work ?
Is this friend really you? 
If he is on multidrop and local work, especially at regular drops he (you) probably have worked out a routine. Pull in, chains off and go and find someone while (you) go and make a pot of tea. It must take 15 minutes to do that, or I would make sure it did.
One reason why I prefer the continent, is that is the first thing they tell you when you arrive. “coffee is over there” I will be with you in 10 minutes.
Im sure he, (you) could also sneak in a 30 minute break around lunchtime too
tachograph:
The_Jammer:
A friend of mine is driving class 1 for a local firm delivering steel. He starts his driving at 7am every day. He always has loads of breaks as he tips throuout the duration of his driving, but they arent always neccessarilly in the right order or place. He is usually back to base for 12 - 1pm so is never seriously exceeding driving hours, but nevertheless he isnt taking his breaks at the right times or for the right length of time. He only drives 5 days a week so prob never even exceeds 25 hours a week total driving. What sort of penalty would he incurr if caught doing this■■?If he’s doing 25 hours driving over 5 days then he’s not complying to the driver hours regulations, I would have thought that he really needs to check more precisely what driving hours he’s doing, though if as you say he spends plenty of time tipping then he’s probably not exceeding the driving hours.
Also does he finish work when he returns to base or does he then do some form of other work ?
So how is he not complying with drivers hours regulations?
Kate:
tachograph:
The_Jammer:
A friend of mine is driving class 1 for a local firm delivering steel. He starts his driving at 7am every day. He always has loads of breaks as he tips throuout the duration of his driving, but they arent always neccessarilly in the right order or place. He is usually back to base for 12 - 1pm so is never seriously exceeding driving hours, but nevertheless he isnt taking his breaks at the right times or for the right length of time. He only drives 5 days a week so prob never even exceeds 25 hours a week total driving. What sort of penalty would he incurr if caught doing this■■?If he’s doing 25 hours driving over 5 days then he’s not complying to the driver hours regulations, I would have thought that he really needs to check more precisely what driving hours he’s doing, though if as you say he spends plenty of time tipping then he’s probably not exceeding the driving hours.
Also does he finish work when he returns to base or does he then do some form of other work ?So how is he not complying with drivers hours regulations?
but nevertheless he isnt taking his breaks at the right times or for the right length of time
Because if he’s doing 25 hours driving over 5 days he’s averaging 5 hours a day driving, which in turn means having the regulatory driving breaks, if he isn’t having the breaks for the correct length of time or in the correct order then he’s not complying with the drivers hours regulations.
But as has already been said there’s a good chance that he’s not really doing that much actual driving in such a short shift when taking into consideration the tipping time.
To answer the original question “What sort of penalty would he incurr if caught doing this■■?”, I’ve just found this but it should be noted that the fines mentioned are the maximum fines and not necessarily what a court would impose :
In the "Rules on Drivers’ Hours and Tachographs" is:
Verbal warnings
Minor infringements that appear to enforcement staff to have been committed either accidentally
or due to the inexperience of the driver/operator and are isolated instances may be dealt with by
means of a verbal warning. This will include a clarification of the infringement and an explanation
of the consequences of continued infringement.
In the "Rules on Drivers’ Hours and Tachographs" is:
Penalties for infringements of the drivers’ hours rules in Great Britain
Maximum fines
As contained within Part VI of the Transport Act 1968 (as amended), the maximum fines that
can be imposed by a court of law on conviction are as follows:
- failure to observe driving time, break or rest period rules: fine of up to £2,500 (Level 4);
- failure to make or keep records under the GB domestic rules: fine of up to £2,500 (Level 4);
- failure to install a tachograph: fine of up to £5,000 (Level 5);
- failure to use a tachograph: fine of up to £5,000 (Level 5);
- failure to hand over records relating to recording equipment as requested by an enforcement officer:
fine of up to £5,000;- false entry or alteration of a record with the intent to deceive: on summary conviction fine of £5,000,
on indictment two years’ imprisonment;- altering or forging the seal on a tachograph with the intent to deceive: on summary conviction fine
of £5,000, on indictment two years’ imprisonment; and- failure to take all reasonable steps to ensure contractually agreed transport time schedules respect
the EU rules: fine of up to £2,500 (Level 4).
Fixed penalties and deposits
Following the Road Safety Act 2006, fixed penalties and deposits are likely to be introduced during
- Infringing drivers with verifiable UK addresses will, in the most routine cases, be dealt with by
means of a fixed penalty, which can be considered by the driver for up to 28 days. Drivers without a
verifiable address will be asked to pay a deposit equal to the fixed penalty and further driving will be
prohibited pending receipt of that payment. This is predicted to result in fewer court prosecutions. More
serious and multiple offences will continue to be prosecuted through the courts.
[What is the correct order for breaks
skip207:
What is the correct order for breaks
Driving breaks
After four and a half hours driving, a driver must take a break of at least 45 minutes.
This break may be split into smaller periods and distributed throughout the 41/2 hour. In this case, the first period must be at least 15 minutes, and the second period must be at least 30 minutes.
WTD breaks
No mobile worker shall work for more than six hours without a break.
Working time shall be interrupted by a break of at least 30 minutes, if working hours total between six and nine hours.
Working time shall be interrupted by a break of at least 45 minutes, if working hours total more than nine hours.
Each break may be made up of separate periods of not less than 15 minutes each.
Well say he has accumulated 4.5hrs driving time and he hasnt had a full half hour brake, but perhaps has had a few 15 minute ones throughout the time, through your experiences is it more likely to be a slap on the wrist sort of thing rather than a serious penaulty■■? Thanks for the help btw guys.
Mr “tachograph” omitted to also detail
That if your doing multiple drops, and you have not accumulated 4.5 hours recorded driving time
before accumulating 6 hours working period,
That you would be required to take a 30 minute break period as defined under the WTD
either:
a) Only 15minutes of that break can be counted as a “break” from driving under EU driver rules.
[ i.e under the permitted spilt break system, as the 1st break can only be either 15minutes or 45minutes ]
b) Or alternately that 1st break should be extended to 45 minutes
in order to comply with both EU driving rules and WTD
Also:
If the 1st driving break is taken early
(ie before 4.5 hours at the wheel has been accumulated)
any driving time remaining in the 1st period,
can NOT be carried over to the next 4.5 hour driving period.
Returning the tread to “The_Jammer”(s) original question
It is my belief / interpretation (of the rules)
That actually, his “Friend” does not require any break (at all) providing that either:
His TOTAL working period does not exceed 5 hours 59 minutes
Or 4 hours 29 minutes at the wheel (ie driving)
Personally if faced with a similar situation, I would grab 15minutes break 3hours into the shift, and record it on the tacho.
Then if for any reason I found myself requiring a second break, then only 15 or 30minutes would be required.
( there being nothing more frustrating than finding yourself, only a few miles from base and being forced to find a suitable parking place, and sit still for 30 or 45 minutes )
Regards Double Q
DoubleQ:
Mr “tachograph” omitted to also detailThat if your doing multiple drops, and you have not accumulated 4.5 hours recorded driving time
before accumulating 6 hours working period,
That you would be required to take a 30 minute break period as defined under the WTD
Wrong, the WTD does not define that 30 minutes are required at the 6 hour point. He would only require a 15 minute break at that point under the WTD. Further WTD breaks will depend on the length of his shift, which will also define when they will need to be taken and assuming he does not in fact accumulate 4.5 hours driving during the shift.
DoubleQ:
Also:
If the 1st driving break is taken early
(ie before 4.5 hours at the wheel has been accumulated)
any driving time remaining in the 1st period,
can NOT be carried over to the next 4.5 hour driving period.
Not sure what you mean by carried over. Certainly at no point during the shift can you accumulate more than 4.5 hours driving without the correct breaks but any driving time which wasn’t used before taking a 45-minute break is still available to be used during the shift. For instance taking a 45-minute break after 2.5 hours driving would still leave 6.5 hours driving available for a 9 hour driving day or 7.5 hours for a 10.