Driving too slowly is dangerous

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
61

RoadsRat:

Nite Owl:
So terrorism never existed before 2003? I’m guessing all those Irish guys in prison were innocent then. That explains why they all got released and became politicians.

Who said there was no terrorism prior to 2003 because I haven’t said it. :confused:

The IRA was a different type of terrorism. That was a small scale war which primarily involved the military.

Between 1971 and 2001, there were 430 terrorist-related deaths in Great Britain. Of these, 125 deaths were linked to the Northern Ireland conflict. Since 2001, there have been almost 100 terrorist-related deaths in Great Britain, the vast majority linked to Islamic jihad and religious extremism.

Last year alone we had attacks at Westminster Bridge, Manchester Arena, London Bridge and Finsbury Park. The director general of MI5 Andrew Parker recently said that the tempo of counter-terrorism operations was the highest he had seen in his 34-year career. MI5 is running approximately 500 live operations involving 3,000 “subjects of interest”. There were 400 arrests on suspicion of terrorism-related offences in the year to the end of September 2017. That’s the highest recorded figure, up more than 50% on the previous year.

The latest official figures from December 2017, show nine Islamist plots had been foiled since March 2017 - and 22 since 2013.

So yes, I’d say the police are quite busy with terrorism.

Nite Owl:
If you take this forum as a cross section of society, a bunch of people working hard to earn money, then it’s fair to say that the public have lost faith in the police. We’re sick of high profile, resource intensive initiatives designed to make roads safer by fineing us but having a leaflet campaign to warn us about burglaries. How many on here have had our loads/diesel stolen and what was the police response? I’m guessing the answers would be “many” and “nothing”.

It’s not really a cross section of society though, is it? You’re all males aged 35-65 who all do the same job in the same industry. In reality, the vast majority of the public have support and respect for the police. Those that don’t tend to be individuals that want to please themselves and don’t like it when they get caught.

As supposed “professional drivers”, isn’t it right that you’re held more accountable for your actions than a car driver?

Nite Owl:
Make all the excuses you want about resources and different departments, we the public have no faith in the police any more.

You don’t speak for the public, just for a small section of middle aged men who drive trucks for a living. You are entitled to your opinion.

Since you’re so fond of stats I’ll give you a few. They’re from the government so take from them what you will.

data.gov.uk/dataset/154c28d4-e5 … the-police

Agree the police listen to the concerns of local people - 72% in March 2018, down from 76% in march 2017.

Agree the police can be relied upon to be there when needed- 74% March 2018, down from 79% March 2017

Agree the police treat everyone fairly regardless of who they are- 76% mar h 2018 compared to 79% March 2017

Knows how to contact their local ward officer- 16%

And in March 2018 just 67% of people thought the police did a good job in their area.

You can bury your head in the sand and give out excuses and smart arse replies as much as you like, it doesnt change the fact that the police are out of touch with the population.

62

Just for the record mate (Mr R. Rat) I fully understand you guys have to do as you are told by your superiors.
However what you are told to do leaves a lot to be desired, but your hands are tied.
I’ve baited you and you have not bitten and retaliated in an offensive way, so you aint all bad in my book. :smiley: …despite me addressing you after me coming home after a night out, with a few pints on board, …more than I should have while posting on a forum. :smiley: :

However despite your loyalty to the Police which is admirable, there comes a time when you can not defend the indefensible.

63

fingermissing:

good_friend:
Where’s Euro Truck Spotter when you need him?..

Wasn’t he on truckersworld

Yes. Used to talk a hell of a lot of sense. Seems to be rare these days…

64

RoadsRat:

idrive:
Police priorities have changed somewhat

youtu.be/2U1pxxueCTs

youtu.be/hZkEQTx5VRA

That’s funny. Some nutjob ranting about LGBT people and saying trans people are mentally ill. :laughing:

Far from a nutjob, a very clued up guy who regularly and successfully sues the police on behalf of those who are bullied by your lot.

The inclusive corporate drivel that you recite just proves how detached you are from reality, and confirms just what is wrong with so much of our establishment today.

65

robroy:

waddy640:
For years we have been told that “Speed Kills” now it appears that the opposite is the case, obviously the speed cameras are not making enough money.

My answer to the ‘‘Speed kills’’ is that it is not entirely true, it’s more of a case of ‘‘Inappropriate speed kills’’
It’s as ‘inappropriate’ to sit on a motorway at say 40 to 50 mph in normal conditions, as it is to teararse through a town at 60mph.

You get oblivious idiots ,… as it says in the article, trundling along at 50 in the middle lane, with maybe a couple more like minded sat behind them, in like a bloody carnival procession.
Then the speeding up behind them and getting baulked up occurs, then the undertaking starts, the dangerous tailgating by ■■■■■■ off truckers who are not allowed to use lane 3 (not condoning it btw, but sometimes you can see why some do it out of frustration if I’m honest)
Then the whole cluster [zb] of non lane discipline/free for all scenario starts which very often culminates into an accident of varying degrees of seriousness.

You mention speed cameras, there lies the problem, they are there not alongside the Police to supplement them, but instead of them, which creates many other problems as well as this one.

Here’s a controversial curveball, …if there are no longer any Mway Police to maintain lane discipline and to stop the hogging…give the HATO more powers to issue tickets for it. :bulb:

This is exactly it and is end of the matter really. It comes down appropriate or inappropriate speed. It’s not a blanket thing of cars should always do 70 on a motorway…but should if they can and the conditions means it’s safe to do so whilst being in the correct lane.

66

robroy:
Just for the record mate (Mr R. Rat) I fully understand you guys have to do as you are told by your superiors.
However what you are told to do leaves a lot to be desired, but your hands are tied.
I’ve baited you and you have not bitten and retaliated in an offensive way, so you aint all bad in my book. :smiley: …despite me addressing you after me coming home after a night out, with a few pints on board, …more than I should have while posting on a forum. :smiley: :

However despite your loyalty to the Police which is admirable, there comes a time when you can not defend the indefensible.

Not being pedantic Rob, the term “superiors” went out in the 80s, they’re now referred to as seniors, and boy do they have some senior moments! :laughing:

67

I will try to explain why some seem to have a big problem with the police on here. It’s exactly the same as drivers on here complaining about other drivers not knowing about lorries and how they should have to go in a lorry to learn the basics to eradicate lorry driver problems.(supposedly)
If you don’t do the job you only see it from the outside and do not have the knowledge to critisise where the faults are. Yes we know the roads need more police around to catch the idiots but the world has changed since the 60’s and 70’s and even the 80’s. Priorities with the police have changed and rightly so and as has been said the police are severely short staffed.
I have worked with traffic police in my early years and most are great guys who go through the most stringent training that most on here would probably really struggle with so before knocking them at every opportunity try to realise there is a lot more to it that you realise.

68

RoadsRat:

Nite Owl:
So terrorism never existed before 2003? I’m guessing all those Irish guys in prison were innocent then. That explains why they all got released and became politicians.

Who said there was no terrorism prior to 2003 because I haven’t said it. :confused:

The IRA was a different type of terrorism. That was a small scale war which primarily involved the military.

Between 1971 and 2001, there were 430 terrorist-related deaths in Great Britain. Of these, 125 deaths were linked to the Northern Ireland conflict. Since 2001, there have been almost 100 terrorist-related deaths in Great Britain, the vast majority linked to Islamic jihad and religious extremism.

Last year alone we had attacks at Westminster Bridge, Manchester Arena, London Bridge and Finsbury Park. The director general of MI5 Andrew Parker recently said that the tempo of counter-terrorism operations was the highest he had seen in his 34-year career. MI5 is running approximately 500 live operations involving 3,000 “subjects of interest”. There were 400 arrests on suspicion of terrorism-related offences in the year to the end of September 2017. That’s the highest recorded figure, up more than 50% on the previous year.

The latest official figures from December 2017, show nine Islamist plots had been foiled since March 2017 - and 22 since 2013.

So yes, I’d say the police are quite busy with terrorism.

Nite Owl:
If you take this forum as a cross section of society, a bunch of people working hard to earn money, then it’s fair to say that the public have lost faith in the police. We’re sick of high profile, resource intensive initiatives designed to make roads safer by fineing us but having a leaflet campaign to warn us about burglaries. How many on here have had our loads/diesel stolen and what was the police response? I’m guessing the answers would be “many” and “nothing”.

Since the late 1970’s the army took the backseat in Northern Ireland and were there to support the police, in Great Britain the police acted on their own except in a few exceptional cases.
As for public support for the police in general you do not have to look very far to see that public support is at a fairly low point. The results of an IPCC survey in 2014 showed satisfaction down from 75% to 66% and no signs of improving so fair to say it is probably lower than that now

69

jakethesnake:
I will try to explain why some seem to have a big problem with the police on here. .

:open_mouth: :open_mouth: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
Will you now? :unamused: …
Tell you what mate, stick to explaining your own ‘‘big problems’’ with certain groups, and do not attempt to be as arrogant as to explain things for other people…ESPECIALLY ME !
Thanks.

70

BossHogg:

robroy:
Just for the record mate (Mr R. Rat) I fully understand you guys have to do as you are told by your superiors.
However what you are told to do leaves a lot to be desired, but your hands are tied.
I’ve baited you and you have not bitten and retaliated in an offensive way, so you aint all bad in my book. :smiley: …despite me addressing you after me coming home after a night out, with a few pints on board, …more than I should have while posting on a forum. :smiley: :

However despite your loyalty to the Police which is admirable, there comes a time when you can not defend the indefensible.

Not being pedantic Rob, the term “superiors” went out in the 80s, they’re now referred to as seniors, and boy do they have some senior moments! :laughing:

I’m still stuck in the 80s BH mate, :blush: :smiley:
I haven’t recovered yet from cutting off my permed mullet and shaving off my Magnum tache. :laughing:

71

jakethesnake:
I am sure it’s the bosses decision what to target but the point remains they target what raises money.

Really, targeting terrorism raises money? Get real.

Leaving aside the human cost of terrorism let’s think about the financial aspect; terrorism is expensive! I’m not talking about the lone wolf ■■■■■■■■ armed with a kitchen knife and a Ladybird how to… book. High grade terrorism such as hijackings, aircraft attacks etc require millions of dollars in funding and increasingly our intelligence agencies target and confiscate these funds, so I’d definitely say that targeting terrorism raises money. Certainly more than busting a man with a tail light out! :wink:

72

jakethesnake:
I will try to explain why some seem to have a big problem with the police on here. It’s exactly the same as drivers on here complaining about other drivers not knowing about lorries and how they should have to go in a lorry to learn the basics to eradicate lorry driver problems.(supposedly)
If you don’t do the job you only see it from the outside and do not have the knowledge to critisise where the faults are. Yes we know the roads need more police around to catch the idiots but the world has changed since the 60’s and 70’s and even the 80’s. Priorities with the police have changed and rightly so and as has been said the police are severely short staffed.
I have worked with traffic police in my early years and most are great guys who go through the most stringent training that most on here would probably really struggle with so before knocking them at every opportunity try to realise there is a lot more to it that you realise.

I spent some years working for a police force, my job was to recover defective and accident damaged police vehicles. I was never short of work and was virtually guaranteed overtime every working day.

73

RoadsRat:

dieseldog999:
no thanks,im quite happy not to have angus and his ilk sharing the same airspace with myself directly or indirectly. :slight_smile:

I’m quite sure they wouldn’t want to waste their time interacting with a fantasist. :smiley:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
ok,il take the bait,pray tell what my posts would be fantasising about old bean?

74

the maoster:

jakethesnake:
I am sure it’s the bosses decision what to target but the point remains they target what raises money.

Really, targeting terrorism raises money? Get real.

Leaving aside the human cost of terrorism let’s think about the financial aspect; terrorism is expensive! I’m not talking about the lone wolf [zb] armed with a kitchen knife and a Ladybird how to… book. High grade terrorism such as hijackings, aircraft attacks etc require millions of dollars in funding and increasingly our intelligence agencies target and confiscate these funds, so I’d definitely say that targeting terrorism raises money. Certainly more than busting a man with a tail light out! :wink:

Im not sure what youre saying here?
Does terrorism really cost millions to set up? How much has been confiscated from terrorist organisations?
Terrorism does cost us loads, thats for sure. The drones that shut down Gatwick (not saying whether or not they were terrorist related) cost a couple of hundred quid, (half day for RM agency driver!) but meant well over 100,000 people lost flights, but many more lost due to knock-on effects. That cost us millions as a society. Terrorism isnt just about killing people, but can be cyber attacks on economic targets too, surely?

Keeping tabs on “persons of interest” costs many man hours of trained personnel. More expensive than locking up people on mere suspicion of course, but we do live in a country where you aren`t sent away on a whim. Expensive? But, but such it is. Better spend cash on a proper police service, than take the cheap option of locking up all who differ from the mainstream.
If the public are less satisfied with the police than in past years, why is that?
Less attention given to incidents such as theft, and bad driving?
Look at the figure NiteOwl quotes for satisfaction with police:

Nite Owl:
Agree the police listen to the concerns of local people - 72% in March 2018, down from 76% in march 2017.

Agree the police can be relied upon to be there when needed- 74% March 2018, down from 79% March 2017

Agree the police treat everyone fairly regardless of who they are- 76% mar h 2018 compared to 79% March 2017

Knows how to contact their local ward officer- 16%

And in March 2018 just 67% of people thought the police did a good job in their area.

You can bury your head in the sand and give out excuses and smart arse replies as much as you like, it doesnt change the fact that the police are out of touch with the population.

With an increasing population, increasing costs, and falling police numbers is it any wonder there is less satisfaction!?
UK pop went from 62m in 2010 to 66m in 2017, whilst police went from 140,000 to 120,000 over the same years. There have been increases in support staff, so that isn`t the whole story of course.
With more people, more to do, and less resources, what do we expect? Shout “efficiency” like a demented politician all we like, we all know that paying less usually gets us less. Cut police funding: expect less satisfaction.

75

Nite Owl:

RoadsRat:

Nite Owl:
So terrorism never existed before 2003? I’m guessing all those Irish guys in prison were innocent then. That explains why they all got released and became politicians.

Who said there was no terrorism prior to 2003 because I haven’t said it. :confused:

The IRA was a different type of terrorism. That was a small scale war which primarily involved the military.

Between 1971 and 2001, there were 430 terrorist-related deaths in Great Britain. Of these, 125 deaths were linked to the Northern Ireland conflict. Since 2001, there have been almost 100 terrorist-related deaths in Great Britain, the vast majority linked to Islamic jihad and religious extremism.

Last year alone we had attacks at Westminster Bridge, Manchester Arena, London Bridge and Finsbury Park. The director general of MI5 Andrew Parker recently said that the tempo of counter-terrorism operations was the highest he had seen in his 34-year career. MI5 is running approximately 500 live operations involving 3,000 “subjects of interest”. There were 400 arrests on suspicion of terrorism-related offences in the year to the end of September 2017. That’s the highest recorded figure, up more than 50% on the previous year.

The latest official figures from December 2017, show nine Islamist plots had been foiled since March 2017 - and 22 since 2013.

So yes, I’d say the police are quite busy with terrorism.

Nite Owl:
If you take this forum as a cross section of society, a bunch of people working hard to earn money, then it’s fair to say that the public have lost faith in the police. We’re sick of high profile, resource intensive initiatives designed to make roads safer by fineing us but having a leaflet campaign to warn us about burglaries. How many on here have had our loads/diesel stolen and what was the police response? I’m guessing the answers would be “many” and “nothing”.

It’s not really a cross section of society though, is it? You’re all males aged 35-65 who all do the same job in the same industry. In reality, the vast majority of the public have support and respect for the police. Those that don’t tend to be individuals that want to please themselves and don’t like it when they get caught.

As supposed “professional drivers”, isn’t it right that you’re held more accountable for your actions than a car driver?

Nite Owl:
Make all the excuses you want about resources and different departments, we the public have no faith in the police any more.

You don’t speak for the public, just for a small section of middle aged men who drive trucks for a living. You are entitled to your opinion.

Since you’re so fond of stats I’ll give you a few. They’re from the government so take from them what you will.

data.gov.uk/dataset/154c28d4-e5 … the-police

Agree the police listen to the concerns of local people - 72% in March 2018, down from 76% in march 2017.

Agree the police can be relied upon to be there when needed- 74% March 2018, down from 79% March 2017

Agree the police treat everyone fairly regardless of who they are- 76% mar h 2018 compared to 79% March 2017

Knows how to contact their local ward officer- 16%

And in March 2018 just 67% of people thought the police did a good job in their area.

You can bury your head in the sand and give out excuses and smart arse replies as much as you like, it doesnt change the fact that the police are out of touch with the population.

You do realise that your stats are from The Mayor’s Office for Policing And Crime (MOPAC) in London so only relate to The Met? Hardly a fair representation of British policing as a whole. :unamused:

Most of the stats rate the police in the 70% bracket so hardly lacking the support that you claim doesn’t exist. 7 out of 10 people rating the police as good sort of disagrees with that you say.

Maybe come back with some better stats if you think you’re right. :smiley:

76

Mazzer2:
Since the late 1970’s the army took the backseat in Northern Ireland and were there to support the police, in Great Britain the police acted on their own except in a few exceptional cases.

The military were active until the ceasefire of 1997.

At the peak of the operation in the 1970s, the British Army were deploying around 21,000 soldiers. By 1980, the figure had dropped to 11,000, with a lower presence of 9,000 in 1985. The total climbed again to 10,500 after the intensification of the IRA use of barrack busters toward the end of the 1980s. In 1992, there were 17,750 members of all British military forces taking part in the operation. The British Army build-up comprised three brigades. There were six resident battalions deployed for a period of two and a half years and four roulement battalions serving six-months tours.

Mazzer2:
As for public support for the police in general you do not have to look very far to see that public support is at a fairly low point. The results of an IPCC survey in 2014 showed satisfaction down from 75% to 66% and no signs of improving so fair to say it is probably lower than that now

Yes, the IPCC (now defunct) investigated complaints against the police. Of course they would rate the police poorly else they wouldn’t be complaining to the IPCC. Again, it proves nothing.

77

robroy:
Just for the record mate (Mr R. Rat) I fully understand you guys have to do as you are told by your superiors.
However what you are told to do leaves a lot to be desired, but your hands are tied.
I’ve baited you and you have not bitten and retaliated in an offensive way, so you aint all bad in my book. :smiley: …despite me addressing you after me coming home after a night out, with a few pints on board, …more than I should have while posting on a forum. :smiley: :

However despite your loyalty to the Police which is admirable, there comes a time when you can not defend the indefensible.

When someone’s being polite and fair to me, I’m the same in return. Name calling and getting into slagging matches does nothing for anyone so it’s nice to be able to have a grown up discussion with someone who has opposing views. :smiley:

I still disagree with a lot of what you say though. :wink:

78

Here are some actual stats for policing as a whole.

ethnicity-facts-figures.ser … ice/latest

Overall in 2017/18, 78% of people aged 16 years and over in England and Wales said they had confidence in their local police – up from 76% in 2013/14.

The percentage from all ethnicities has broadly remained the same since 2013, between 70-80%.

79

A couple of things.

Raising money from fines. Police have a direct interest in this. Speeding fines do indeed go direct to central government. But police have a mechanism to circumvent this, and siphon funds directly into their own pockets. It’s called the speed awareness course.

£35 a pop? Potentially £200mil going directly into police coffers? Can anyone define conflict of interest for me?

Police busy with terrorism. I too was once busy with terrorism, having served in NI. Me and some of my former colleagues (yes, we do keep in touch) always have the fear that some little oik in a back office who wasnt even an ache in their dads balls when we were being bombed/shot at will decide to come after us for stuff we did for queen and country decades ago. Any front line police thinking they are protecting us now, better look over your shoulder, and keep doing it for the rest of your life. Because unless you have one of those little get out of jail free letters so handily dished out to some proper scum, you will never be safe from future authorities. Better hope there isnt a future Phil Shiner already starting to pick up a law book! And for what the current so called authorities are doing -of which the police are a small part of-persecuting pensioners, some with alzheimers, for what they did decades ago under conditions and stresses that some bobby can have no real concept of, well, mere words alone cannot adequately express the anger, frustration and contempt that I and my pals feel.

Police really do go after the low hanging fruit first. Anything with the prospect of a quick conviction will always be pursued at the expense of more difficult crimes. This is why burglary victims have to check second hand shops and ebay themselves. And go chasing after any cctv footage. So when someone finds their stuff they have the choice of going back to the police, only for police to act too slowly to recover property/arrest villains/turn over to clown prosecution services who decide prosecution is no in the public interest, or they can sort the matter out themselves, and run the very serious risk of being arrested themselves. I’ve never believed police have conviction targets. But can any police officer look me in the eye and tell me with a straight face that they are not regarded more favourably by their superiors if they have a higher number of convictions?

Find yourself under attack? Someone trying to break into your trailer in the middle of the night? Might as well call ghostbusters for all the good police will do. Dare to fight back and defend yourself and your property? Well thats you in the frame straight away. Low hanging fruit.

Of course, if you are white, male, christian and straight you are fair game. Live in a caravan, with a horse tied to the back? do what the ■■■■ you like, from setting up shop on school playing fields to fly tipping vast amounts. All police will do is have a pcso, maybe with a pc, walking the perimeter and ignoring the illegality going on right in front of them. But funnily enough were I to take next years holiday in a caravan and park in a local park then police would be all over me like a cheap suit. Again, low hanging fruit.

And if you are a member of a minority, you are all but untouchable. Just ask the children of Rotherham or Rochdale how much they trust the police. Or the people of Hillsborough.

I could go on a lot more. In fact I looked back at what I had written, and deleted a lot. The point is, ordinary decent people are sick to death with the trendy policing we have to put up with by graduate entry police who couldn’t pour pizz out of a bucket even if the instructions were on the bottom. The public are NOT treated fairly and evenly. Justice does NOT work for all, only those who can afford the most expensive lawyers. Just ask anyone who has ever paid for Mr Loophole the lawyer who specialises in getting people off speeding tickets.

I’m not going to say things were better in the ‘old days’. They werent. It was merely a different flavour of brown stuff. Policing was always done in part by fear. Fear of getting caught. Fear of being punished. But now, thanks to a liberal agenda driven criminal justice system those fears have largely gone away in the criminal classes. The only fear remaining is in the minds of the ordinary people. Fear of the criminals on one side, and the authorities on the other. Because both will prey on ordinary people going about their daily life with impunity.

(Rant meter dialled down a bit.)

80

RoadsRat:

Mazzer2:
Since the late 1970’s the army took the backseat in Northern Ireland and were there to support the police, in Great Britain the police acted on their own except in a few exceptional cases.

The military were active until the ceasefire of 1997.

At the peak of the operation in the 1970s, the British Army were deploying around 21,000 soldiers. By 1980, the figure had dropped to 11,000, with a lower presence of 9,000 in 1985. The total climbed again to 10,500 after the intensification of the IRA use of barrack busters toward the end of the 1980s. In 1992, there were 17,750 members of all British military forces taking part in the operation. The British Army build-up comprised three brigades. There were six resident battalions deployed for a period of two and a half years and four roulement battalions serving six-months tours.

My point is that the military were there to support the police they were not carrying out investigations any int that the green army gained was passed over to the police or higher int the military were activly discouraged from carrying out arrests and getting involved in investigations by the 90’s the army were nothing more than body guards for the RUC who were probably the most ungrateful recipients of such costly protection that there has been