Driving School To Avoid

I’m inclined to agree re:what he got for his money, ROG.

But so far as the car-to-truck thing goes…It’s one thing trying to teach a competant car driver to drive a truck, quite another to teach a car driver to drive a truck when he’s constantly converting what you say back into “car” mode before implementing it!!! :wink:

I had a similar problem going from rigid to artic. I kept doing exactly what Ninefifty is doing only I was applying on-road rigid experience to the artic…and then getting frustrated when it didn’t work! Once I stopped thinking about the rigids - in fact forgot any previous knowledge beyond hazard perception and road rules - I found it a whole lot easier.

I’d agree with ROG, Lucy and shortfatbaldy. A combination I think. The instructor wants shafting with a red hot poker :smiley: (Anyway enough of my fantasies).

Ninefifty keep your chin up and make sure you get a good training company next time. At least next time you will know if your getting shafted as soon as you start. Good luck and don’t give up :slight_smile:

Nige

Lucy:
I’m inclined to agree re:what he got for his money, ROG.

But so far as the car-to-truck thing goes…It’s one thing trying to teach a competant car driver to drive a truck, quite another to teach a car driver to drive a truck when he’s constantly converting what you say back into “car” mode before implementing it!!! :wink:

I had a similar problem going from rigid to artic. I kept doing exactly what Ninefifty is doing only I was applying on-road rigid experience to the artic…and then getting frustrated when it didn’t work! Once I stopped thinking about the rigids - in fact forgot any previous knowledge beyond hazard perception and road rules - I found it a whole lot easier.

AH - I see now where you’re coming from - I should have made it clear that I was also referring to reading the road, hazards, forward planning etc

I have never been that good in expressing what I really mean in words - well, I am male (have same prob with verbal at times - think one thing but it comes out of mouth different - always in trouble from my Mrs :blush: :wink: :laughing: )

lets see how the main man does with his next instructor are they all a holes we ll see :laughing: :laughing:

Their instructor Brian is rude/ less than generally polite.
He has a high failure rate for pupils
&
He is a career soldier.

Brian has been instructing for a number of years and yes, he is ex army and yes, I agree he can be gruff - especially when he has had to repeat himself for the umteenth time - or a trainee has repeatedly ignored instruction or continued to drive in a poor or dangerous manner, but in general he is a very good instructor and has all the right amount of required patience - but we all have our breaking point!

Speaking from one who knows both this instructor and the company in question, Brian has a good pass rate which I am sure anybody can check on.
Ace have very good trucks which are well maintained and in good working order - and a good name after being in business for many years.

As for the hours of training - if a trainee has any worries about this then take it to the boss and keep a log of the hours (this goes for any school) and check up during training. Don’t wait to fail then complain to everyone else. If Ninefifty has a complaint about Ace then why did he not go straight to John King (the owner) and voice his opinions. Johnis always in the yard.

Now - according to this failed trainee.
Ace Industrial Training - No good
Wallace Schoolof Motoring - No Good
1st Class Trucking - No good.

I have in the past worked with all these companies and find that if the trainee does a good job of listening and taking note in what their instructor tells them then they pass. If not then they fail - regardless of what name is painted on the side of the truck.

Mother trucker with you all the way JUST READ BETWEEN THE LINES :laughing:
instructor s do the job otheir wise they wouldnt WORK :wink: yes im harsh but to u newbees the jobs hard no time for a holes here and with a company u might be lucky and get a tutor dont bank on it your only as good as your last LOAD :laughing:

From what Ninefifty wrote, in my view, he did not get what he paid for, no matter what his shortcomings were or were not.
The training company seems to have used him as a “filler” between others retests IMO.

I am glad you quoted ‘From what Ninefifty wrote’ Rog. When a person posts it is only his own side of it we hear thats the problem.

Being nosey I have spoken to the instructor in question and heard a pretty diffferent story - but that is for him to post here and not me.

:unamused: everybody is entitled to their opinion, but i think you may jus be exceptionally angry and may calm down ready for another attempt, cant agree with the comment on 1st class trucking, i know sometimes parking your car in different locations to meet the truck may be a pain, but other than that i passed class 1 and class 2 at 1st attempt with kenny and ed, i also met 2 other instructors who took me on my pretend test, which i failed both! haha other than that they were fine i recommend them, i also heard that ace were ok. so chill a bit an try again,maybe you could ask for a different instructor? then post what you thought! :smiley:

Mothertrucker:

From what Ninefifty wrote, in my view, he did not get what he paid for, no matter what his shortcomings were or were not.
The training company seems to have used him as a “filler” between others retests IMO.

I am glad you quoted ‘From what Ninefifty wrote’ Rog. When a person posts it is only his own side of it we hear thats the problem.

Being nosey I have spoken to the instructor in question and heard a pretty diffferent story - but that is for him to post here and not me.

I just hope that I have not “jumped” to the wrong conclusions as I do tend to jump in with both feet too quickly at times :blush: (I am a Taurus - the bull :slight_smile: ).

(i) If you speed up and down an empty country lane and the damned thing bounces, you slow down not speed up.

(i) This is counter-intuitive, I know, but actually speeding up smooths out the ride. I have 17 years experience of driving both cars and light trucks on unmade roads in the middle east and Africa, and it’s true. If your instructor was ex-army, believe me, he knows this as well. He might well have seen more miles of bad roads than some people ever see of good ones! I can easily understand that he might get peeved if he offers this advice and you tell him that you know better.

(ii) As far as I was concerned it was my instructor who could not convert my car driving disciplines into that of what applied to lorry driving.

(ii) He wasn’t even attempting to convert your car driving disciplines, as I’m sure that he must have made quite plain. He was attempting to train you how to control an 18 tonne vehicle safely and confidently.

Can you imagine a hang glider pilot telling a 747 instructor that he already knows it all and just needs to have his existing disciplines polished up a little?

No, Grasshopper. A gramme of humility weighs more than a tonne of false confidence.

(iii) It would’ve helped if my instructor gave me praise when I was right and not demoralising me every time I was wrong which is what I got most of the time.

(iii) You are absolutely right here. The formula that trainers the world over are trained to use is called a feedback sandwich - or pat/kick/pat. i.e.a pat on the back, a kick in the softer parts and then a pat on the back. This should normally be followed by motivating feedforward. In the context of driving it might be something like:

“You slowed down in plenty of time and got into the correct lane there. You then wandered over too far to the right and got MUCH too close to that railing, in fact DANGEROUSLY close. Your exit was about as good as it could be and really well controlled. Get the steering sorted and you’ll have mastered that type of junction.”

Do you see how (i) the feedback sandwich is constructed in three parts and (ii) the feedforward builds in the positive result of eliminating the fault.

Aren’t driving instructors trained to do this?

Shortfatbaldy:
(iii) It would’ve helped if my instructor gave me praise when I was right and not demoralising me every time I was wrong which is what I got most of the time.

(iii) You are absolutely right here. The formula that trainers the world over are trained to use is called a feedback sandwich - or pat/kick/pat. i.e.a pat on the back, a kick in the softer parts and then a pat on the back. This should normally be followed by motivating feedforward. In the context of driving it might be something like:

“You slowed down in plenty of time and got into the correct lane there. You then wandered over too far to the right and got MUCH too close to that railing, in fact DANGEROUSLY close. Your exit was about as good as it could be and really well controlled. Get the steering sorted and you’ll have mastered that type of junction.”

Do you see how (i) the feedback sandwich is constructed in three parts and (ii) the feedforward builds in the positive result of eliminating the fault.

Aren’t driving instructors trained to do this?

I wasn’t - all I had was a couple of hours on DSA procedures from the training manager :open_mouth: - but I did have 8 years of sitting in the passenger seat of other peoples vehicles whilst helping them, as an unpaid volunteer, to attain advanced driving test standard.
As I am not an ADI, I cannot comment on the part 3 aspect of their test which is to test their instructional ability - maybe an ADI can tell us what that actually involves.

I am glad somebody knows Brian in person.

I am sure Brian would have a different story to tell about me.
As far as he was concerned our relationship was downhill from Day one.

I have not held back in any of my comments and I will admit to getting p****d off to not listening to Brian on one or two occasions.
I constantly tried getting out of car driving mode but Brian constantly failed to see this.

Our communications was great - we had similar accents and so were able to relate to each other but he still was not able to convert my car disciplines.
I am glad Brian knows I am talking about him here - this would really p*** him off I am sure as he is not an internet person. His girlfriend is :stuck_out_tongue: .

I am glad most people agree with me here but I shall be honest and say one thing here - nothing Brian taught me would’ve prepared me for the real test.
Reversing was a strong point - I failed that!
Cross armed driving - I ignored his advice based on my car disciplines.
Gear changing on a busy dual carriageway - I was not prepared mentally for that and neither was it practiced. My examinier had to urge me to drive.
Roundabouts - I asked Brian for more of those, he did not give it.
Calling me a dangerous driver was a real morale drainer but I remained strong - surprise, surprise he pleaded to come with me on the test run. I said no!

At the end of the day, I remain strong.
I am not angry I failed.
Brian had better drivers, what was I?

Blowing your top at a pupil who has a pop at you at the end of a bad day says as much about an instructor as his maturity.

Should I keep having pops at Brian?
Doesn’t change anything - I have told him anyway, I am never going to see him again anyway.
I am sure there were some sides about me he liked as a person but in terms of driving disciplines, our relationship was short of little else than disastrous.

I have plans for my future but make one sure note of this - I am not giving up on my haulage dreams.
Nothing makes me stronger than silly little critiscms - I don’t like feeling like I have been defeated.
I WILL BE BACK!!!

Ninefifty:
ICross armed driving - I ignored his advice based on my car disciplines.

Cross armed driving is something car test examiners don’t want to see, so HGV ones definately don’t. It’s not exactly discipline.

Btw, if you’re steering round a corner with your arms crossed and something hits you setting off your airbag, you’re arms get smashed into your face :wink:

Ninefifty:
Cross armed driving - I ignored his advice based on my car disciplines.

Ditto what Kiowan said about cross armed driving.

Ignoring the instructors advice is A Very Bad Idea. The instructor knows what the examiner wants. The examiner is the one who’ll pass or fail you.

I have not held back in any of my comments and I will admit to getting p****d off to not listening to Brian on one or two occasions

maybe why you failed :question:

I

am glad Brian knows I am talking about him here this would really p*** him off I am sure as he is not an internet person. His girlfriend is :lol

a bit childish :unamused:

I have plans for my future but make one sure note of this - I am not giving up on my haulage dreams.
Nothing makes me stronger than silly little critiscms - I don’t like feeling like I have been defeated.

Cross armed driving - I ignored his advice based on my car disciplines.

Well, i think until you get out of the narrow mindedness of ignoring the instructor yet are happy to criticise him about telling you what to do, they’ll remain dreams.

it is a known fact that very few people pass on their first test - this is partley down to the fact that most DSA examiners are (or at least think they are) directly employed by the right hand of god himself! secondly i had a similar experiance with my first driving school when i did my class 1 they were a nightmare so you just need to shop around i eventualy passed with BLACK APPLE in bracknell - i know this is out of your area but i cant praise them enough -= THING TO REMEMBER IS MOST BIG SCHOOLS DONT REALLY CARE HOW LONG IT TAKES YOU TO PASS AS IT MEANS MORE MONEY - WHERE AS THE SMALLER ONES RELY A LOT ON REPUTATION

it is a known fact that very few people pass on their first test - this is partley down to the fact that most DSA examiners are (or at least think they are) directly employed by the right hand of god himself!

I disagree.

I have been an instructor for over 20 years so know pretty much how things work.
Basically if you get it right you pass - if you get it wrong you dont. Simple.
There is no rule of thumb to say how many passes a day the examiners can give out or any other urban myth that may be bandied about to excuse failure.

Well, i think until you get out of the narrow mindedness of ignoring the instructor yet are happy to criticise him about telling you what to do, they’ll remain dreams.
[/quote
I Cannot agree more

Do you see how (i) the feedback sandwich is constructed in three parts and (ii) the feedforward builds in the positive result of eliminating the fault.

Aren’t driving instructors trained to do this?

Every instructor i know (Including the instructor in question) uses this method or something very similar. We all encourage while pointing out the errors

I am glad most people agree with me here…

:open_mouth: :open_mouth: :open_mouth:

Has Ninefifty bothered to actually READ any of the replies here :unamused:

Time to move on I think.
But I am also kinda enjoying this ranting debate :slight_smile: .

I have read all replies here.
I refuse to believe I was wrong in any way by airing my grievances here.
:blush:

Tutors are there to teach - true. :unamused:
I never ignored all my tutor’s advice. Are some of you trying to wind me up here?
If somebody winds you up, you tell them your grievances not bottle the damned thing up. :stuck_out_tongue:
I was totally open to Brian my instructor with a view to getting corrected at all times, sadly he never appeared to see that and assumed I was questioning his professionality.
But there do become times when you think to yourself, what is he rabbitting on about and that is where one’s attention drifts.

MotherTrucker,
I am not narrow-minded. :arrow_right:
I listened to all advice given. Even you I am sure have a mind of deciding what you might think is appropriate or not when sat in front of somebody who knows best unless somebody of a similar disposition tells you similar to what you first heard.
You and Brian may be pals but I remain unbowed.
He picked a verbal fight and I tore him apart.
Dies he not understand human emotions :question: or does he not care about how people react to different scenarios :grimacing:

Kiowan,
Cross armed driving got me through my car.
A driving instructor encouraged me to give it a go informing me that as long as the car was kept in full control I should get by and that is what I did.
Maybe I won’t do it again in my next test but that was not the only factor in my failing.
If something comes round the corner whilst you are cross arming, you’d be pretty thick not to have seen it coming as you are supposed to making all round observations when making manoeuvres.

As in my other post as the title of this one appears to be drifting to the other one of my failing my test miserably, there was nothing Brian could’ve done to have prepared me for the shock of what I faced last Friday.

I remained calm on the day because I knew I wasn’t getting away with it anyway and practiced as much as possible all the manoevres and cheat techniques offered to me
Look at signs as you drive by.
The 1-4 routine when stopping - handbrake, neutral, range down & signal off.
Look at parked cars as you drive past them.
Observe all around you - take in the signs.
Be smooth with your acceleration - no jumping and no harsh acceleration.
Keep the truck moving even when you know you are about to come to a stop.
No clutch dipping.
Green lights are more dangerous than red lights.
Turn your head in the direction of which you are manoevring into.
Flick the range up once you have gotten your chosen gear.

Brian was confident enough to allow me to park the truck unaided and in his absence back at the yard. Odd I thought. So Brian genuinely did have some faith in me.

Vehicle checks - I will never forget them.
He made me and my fellow pupil do them everyday before getting into the truck.

Nobody here can accuse me of not listening to my instructor - I did!!!
The end result was what mattered and when a pupil does not wish to share his failings with you and you insist, do you blame the pupil for pulling a hissy fit that results in arguments and insult trading■■?

I have been understood and sympathesised by all here on this forum and I am happy about that. The odd we told you so means little to me.
Patience and understanding are what I need not ridicule.
I know what it is like to teach people.
I will drill into people my methods ruthlessly too so I can relate to when somebody’s attention drifts - they need a break, man.

I don’t wish Brian any ills, I just don’t want to see him again as he could’ve done a better job than what I expected.
If he stays with ACE, fine.
I have told the masses my piece about ACE.
Pass or fail I was never going to return anyway.
I had to travel when I knew I had other schools closer to home, so what’s my problem?

On a final note and maybe not nobody told me John King was the owner of ACE until the very last day.
The guy even refused to give me his name when I tried getting friendly before the final day a couple of times.

I also offered to Brian the option of having somebody else teach me if he wasn’t happy with me or give me part of my money back rather than see me take a test for which he knew what the likely outcome was going to be.

I have no regrets of taking that test.

May I state that no amount of preparation was going to prepare me for the shock that lay in store for me.
Other posters have said that unless you take the test first time, you will not know what to look out for.
I have sat that test, and I know what to look out for now.

Here’s to me and my future
:wink:
CHEERS…

I shall still be around.

after reading all your posts I have realised you don’t like being wrong even when you are :open_mouth: I feel sorry for poor brian for having wasted his time and effort in trying to teach someone who seems to want to do things his own way. I cannot sympathise with you now Ninefifty as you have made yourself look a right burk with some of the speil you have come out with :open_mouth:

I feel sorry for the next instructor. :smiley:

Climb outta ur backside and you might learn something in future. Thats my advice to you :smiley:

All the best for the future :smiley: Nige