I have been scanning this forum for some time, yes I am new to driving in the civilian world. I’m still a serving Soldier. I have been rather reserved to ask for help on here because there seems to be a lot of animosity towards not just new drivers but especially squadie drivers. But don’t get me wrong there is also a lot of VERY useful and helpful tips and answers that I have taken away from the forum (without asking them). So if your going to comment gobbing off telling me I’m a ■■■■ or your the dogs bollox driver, dragging a drip tray round with you because your such a sweat… I really don’t want to here it.
But please if you can help me I would very much appreciate it.
My Problem:
Well as I have said I am still a serving Soldier therefore I work Monday to Friday. I have been working on and off for agencies for the last 6-7months or so. How ever I have just landed a job outside of the Army working every Saturday. Driving class one, its a walking floor job, the normal loads etc. Boss has also said he will have work for me over my leave periods. Now, up until now weather I have been working weekends or on my leave I have never entered a manual entry for my work through the week.
Example:
Monday to Friday- I work back at the Army. Finish Friday 1030-1330hrs.
Saturday-Start work at 0430-0500. Finish any where in between 1700-2000hrs. (Normally up there with the max 15hr day and extended to 10hrs Drive time.
What I need to know is do I Legaly need to do manual entries. Is there any other way I can Legaly record my hours with the Army through the week? (As I know manual entries are a complete ball ache). Also as I am only driving one day a week, what would the sketch be for my weekly rest period would it still full into the legislation for a normal driving week? As I am still working monday to Friday, which would technically be classed as other work, would it not?
Now, I have been all over the VOSA website looked through the EU HGV Driving Regulations etc. I haven’t just jumped straight on here to ask, I have tryed. I’m just struggling to tie up the lose ends in my head. Obviously the last thing I want to do is get my self in the s**t with VOSA or even my Civi boss. Let alone the Army.
I now it’s been pretty long winded but if you have managed to get this far I thank you and once again if any one can help me, or point me in the right direction I could not appreciate it any more.
I wouldnt think what you are doing is strictly legal. You are supposed to have 45 consecutive hours rest every week, thats 45 hours doing no work whatsoever even in another job.
If you finish work at 8pm on the saturday then you shouldnt start work with the army again until 5pm on monday. Any less than 45 hours (min 24) and you have to make up the hours within 3 weeks which i guess you wouldnt be able to do.
Technically a driver should keep records of all work both in or away from the cab related or not related, either in manual entry form or by filling in paper charts. However, In your position you will get infringments for lack of weekly rest by doing so. Id just keep it hushed, or fabricate your army hours a bit so it looks like your having sufficent rest. You didnt hear that from me though
Yea these were my thoughts. The last thing I want to do is drop my Civi boss (Saturday driving job) in the s**t as he’s a top bloke. My problem being if for example I were to be pulled by VOSA on the Saturday and I was to say I only drive Saturdays. That’s all my tacho would show. But they would clearly know I must work Monday to Friday to. Is there anyway I could do two Saturdays at work on the trott then have the following weekend off?
Example:
1st Saturday- Work
2nd Saturday- Work
3rd Saturday- Rest
4th Saturday- Work
5th Saturday- Work
6th Saturday- Rest
Etc
Or would I have to work one weekend rest the next? Or will I have to completely abide by the weekly driving scheme? Or am I being a ■■■■?
Your best bet would be to work every other saturday.
Assume you finish work on sat at 2000 and start work with the army at 0900 monday that is 35 hours rest. Therefore if you had 55 hours next week which is easily achievable over a whole weekend thats ok (45 hrs plus the extra 10 you owe).
Someone else might correct me, but i am pretty sure you cant take a reduced weekly rest whilst still owing hours from a previous reduced weekly rest.
Right I see. So working every other Saturday, I’ll be ok as it will just be like working a 6 day week. I’ll be we’ll within hours as I only do half a day Monday, Wednesday and Friday. I must thank the Glorious Queen for such grace. But to insure I catch up on my rest hours I must have every other weekend off? Am I correct in saying that?
I know I must be coming across as a right ■■■■. But I’ve been trying to read through the VOSA simplified regulations and the Official EU regs and its just causing my brain to ■■■■.
BrettRE:
Right I see. So working every other Saturday, I’ll be ok as it will just be like working a 6 day week. I’ll be we’ll within hours as I only do half a day Monday, Wednesday and Friday. I must thank the Glorious Queen for such grace. But to insure I catch up on my rest hours I must have every other weekend off? Am I correct in saying that?
I know I must be coming across as a right ■■■■. But I’ve been trying to read through the VOSA simplified regulations and the Official EU regs and its just causing my brain to ■■■■.
Yes.
If you reduce your weekly rest it is fine so long as you make up the time within the next 3 weeks. You cant reduce your weekly rest again until that time is paid back so working every other saturday is the best policy.
BrettRE:
Right I see. So working every other Saturday, I’ll be ok as it will just be like working a 6 day week. I’ll be we’ll within hours as I only do half a day Monday, Wednesday and Friday. I must thank the Glorious Queen for such grace. But to insure I catch up on my rest hours I must have every other weekend off? Am I correct in saying that?
I know I must be coming across as a right ■■■■. But I’ve been trying to read through the VOSA simplified regulations and the Official EU regs and its just causing my brain to ■■■■.
Yes.
If you reduce your weekly rest it is fine so long as you make up the time within the next 3 weeks. You cant reduce your weekly rest again until that time is paid back so working every other saturday is the best policy.
This “can’t reduce your weekly rest again until that time is paid back” isn’t quite right. You can reduce your weekly rest as often as you like as long as it is compensated for en-bloc by the end of the third week following the week in question and as long as any two consecutive weeks contains at least 2 regular 45 hour (or more) weekly rests or at least 1 regular 45 hour (or more) weekly rest and at least 1 reduced weekly rest.
As has already been stated you must carry records for any work you have done within a fixed week prior to driving under EU regs. If caught without these records they would normally impose a prohibition to make you take 9 or maybe 11 hours rest depending on number of records missing they may penalise you personally via a graduated fixed penlty.
I would hazard a guess they would not look favourably on someone working all week in the Army and then driving at the weekend without any records.
Ok thanks very much for your help. These “records” of my working through the week, will they have to be on a official tacho charts? Or would some form of diary be ok? Plus if I were to fill them out for my work Monday to Friday do they need to be signed by anyone as in a boss figure at the army?
Edit:
When you say chart I take it that’s the old analogue tacho discs? If so is it just a case of editing it with a pen by hand?
BrettRE:
Ok thanks very much for your help. These “records” of my working through the week, will they have to be on a official tacho charts? Or would some form of diary be ok? Plus if I were to fill them out for my work Monday to Friday do they need to be signed by anyone as in a boss figure at the army?
Edit:
When you say chart I take it that’s the old analogue tacho discs? If so is it just a case of editing it with a pen by hand?
Cheers
Official records for other work such as your army job can be done in three ways
Manually inputted onto the digicard = very long winded and time consuming
By using the digi printout roll
By using the frisbee analogue cards
In the last two options a seperate record must be made for each day with your name, date, start & finish times on each
For the fixed week (sunday midnight to sunday midnight) when you do not drive under EU regs then no records have to be made
After 29 calendar days those other work records can be binned
ROG:
When did you pass your car test and your LGV test?
Rog - are you trying to sell DCPC training
I do not do dcpc training but am concerned whether the OP has either aquired/grandfather rights or needs to pass the initial dcpc in order to drive LGVs commercially in civvy street
BrettRE:
Ok thanks very much for your help. These “records” of my working through the week, will they have to be on a official tacho charts? Or would some form of diary be ok? Plus if I were to fill them out for my work Monday to Friday do they need to be signed by anyone as in a boss figure at the army?
Edit:
When you say chart I take it that’s the old analogue tacho discs? If so is it just a case of editing it with a pen by hand?
Cheers
An official record is either an analogue chart (disc) on which you would record your name, start and finish dates on the front and a record of at least start and finish times on the back (no need to record breaks, rest or periods of working - just start and finish). You could do the same on a digital print out - just write it all on the back, there’s usually areas for name, licence number, date etc. Alternatively if operating a digital tacho vehicle you could complete the manual entry process and enter the relevant work into the tachograph itself. These are the only correct records unless you have been driving under GB Domestic hours for which a record of that work was legally required - in which case that record in an appropriate log-book would also count as a record for EU rules.
Most VOSA seem to accept diaries and the time sheets etc - but officially they aren’t correct.
The records don’t need signing off by anyone other than you. Once you write it you have made a legally binding statement and would be foolish to tell lies!
In other words - get a handful of analogue charts and fill one in for each working day showing start and finish times. It would be sufficient to simply write EDR (End of daily rest) followed by the time you start work and SDR (Start of daily rest) followed by the time you finish work. No need to draw lines and things in the manual entry grid then. This record along with the details on the front confirms your working hours, and more importantly your rest between these periods of work.
Make sure you carry the current day and previous 28 days of records whilst driving and you won’t go far wrong. VOSA are basically looking for gaps in records and usually want to know why these gaps exist (i.e days off)
ROG:
When did you pass your car test and your LGV test?
Rog - are you trying to sell DCPC training
I do not do dcpc training but am concerned whether the OP has either aquired/grandfather rights or needs to pass the initial dcpc in order to drive LGVs commercially in civvy street
The forces do not always cover this issue
I thought you may have been thinking of me
The forces are terrible for not letting their guys know about the DCPC requirements. Even the civvy instructors don’t seem to let on.
Of course the OPs current ‘employer’ will have checked his licence and therefore DCPC requirement
[/quote]
Official records for other work such as your army job can be done in three ways
Manually inputted onto the digicard = very long winded and time consuming
By using the digi printout roll
By using the frisbee analogue cards
In the last two options a seperate record must be made for each day with your name, date, start & finish times on each
For the fixed week (sunday midnight to sunday midnight) when you do not drive under EU regs then no records have to be made
After 29 calendar days those other work records can be binned
[/quote]
Passed my test in July 2008. As you can imagine we do not use tachographs in the forces but we still abide by the hours in the UK, using paper time sheets.
Now I didn’t just jump straight in a lorry thinking I knew everything. I was told I was CPC exempt up until the beginning of 2014 by my agencies at the time. So I spent some cash and went to the local HGV driving school for the day. Where I requested reversing and picking up a trailer training and also the use and regulations of tachographs. Now the training was well worth the money but the stuff he covered on tacho was very brief.
Now if I were to use the old analogue tacho docs to keep a record how would I fill them in? Just mark other work with a pen? I know these questions are bone but just don’t want to ■■■■ it up. As I have clearly been doing it wrong for the last few weeks.
Edit: Cancel my last in paragraph above as you answers it in previous post.
Once again thank you very much for your help so far
BrettRE:
Passed my test in July 2008. … I was told I was CPC exempt up until the beginning of 2014 by my agencies at the time.
Assuming that is LGV test passed in 2008 …
They are correct - you have dcpc aquired rights until 09/09/2014
If you are thinking of leaving the forces then try and get the resettlement bods to get you 35 hours of periodic dcpc training before you leave as that will then cover you until 09/09/2019
BrettRE:
Passed my test in July 2008. … I was told I was CPC exempt up until the beginning of 2014 by my agencies at the time.
Assuming that is LGV test passed in 2008 …
They are correct - you have dcpc aquired rights until 09/09/2014
If you are thinking of leaving the forces then try and get the resettlement bods to get you 35 hours of periodic dcpc training before you leave as that will then cover you until 09/09/2019
Yes sorry that was the pass date for my LGV.
With regards to leaving, we are going on tour again in march but thinking of leaving after that. But thanks for the heads up regarding DCPC. Been asking back at the army what the crack as as its all up in the air. The Army do a lot of gobbing off about how we are all bound by Health and Safety and driving regulations but anything that cost money “ow no we don’t need that”. It’s all just what suits them at the time.
