yorkielee:
common sense… that’s all you need. if once in a year you help your mother in law move house then its not work even if your being paid for it… if I got pulled by vosa and they said it was ‘‘work’’ I would take the case to court and fight it, I would get a jury and ask them who in there right mind would convict me…
I would convict you if you were being paid. The important thing about recreation is that, if you’re too tired, then you rearrange or refuse the task once it stops being a pleasure, whereas if you’re being paid that changes the equation for most people.
If you’re a driver and you won’t move your mother in law for free (and she’s willing to pay), then don’t do it at all - let her pay someone else who is properly rested.
Why would I charge my mother in law for me to help move some stuff?
yorkielee:
common sense… that’s all you need. if once in a year you help your mother in law move house then its not work even if your being paid for it… if I got pulled by vosa and they said it was ‘‘work’’ I would take the case to court and fight it, I would get a jury and ask them who in there right mind would convict me…
I would convict you if you were being paid.‘‘then in my opinion you sir are a jobs worth.’’ The important thing about recreation is that, if you’re too tired, then you rearrange or refuse the task once it stops being a pleasure, whereas if you’re being paid that changes the equation for most people.
If you’re a driver and you won’t move your mother in law for free (and she’s willing to pay), then don’t do it at all - let her pay someone else who is properly rested.
ok so while I spend my weekend gardening or painting or doing other jobs around the house or is that not allowed as its work■■? I see it if I do jobs around the house my girlfriend gives me ■■■. although I’m doing the jobs for free shes not paying anyone else to do them jobs so does that mean shes like a prostitute?? that in itself is illegal…
o and while all these ‘‘jobs’’ are being done or not done n the ■■■ being a reward do I have to inform hmrc as I’m not paying tax on it??
Lennoxtown:
Ok, let’s turn this situation on it’s head… I drive a van all week, but I want to drive trucks for 3-4 days per month ( I’m ex HGV driver but been away from it for five years! ) So, my question is… will my hours spent at weekly van driving job have to be included or added to any extra time spent truck driving to stay within drivers hours rules?
Assuming it’s a small van under 3.5t, legally all the time you work in that job will count as other work for the EU regulations and should be recorded as such on charts or printouts.
You only need to record none HGV driving work done in weeks that you drive in-scope of EU regulations and the records need only consist of the date, start/finish times and your name.
It depends on the hours you work but most people who work Monday to Friday in a none HGV driving job find they can legally work 1 day every second week as a HGV driver, but like I say it depends on the hours you normally work and some people legally manage a days HGV driving every week.
Lennoxtown:
Ok, let’s turn this situation on it’s head… I drive a van all week, but I want to drive trucks for 3-4 days per month this started as the OP was moving his mother in law. I’m assuming this happened once every 10 years or so, could be less but you put down you wish to drive a hgv 3/4 times a month… hardly the same scenario but it could still work out legally to be ok ( I’m ex HGV driver but been away from it for five years! ) So, my question is… will my hours spent at weekly van driving job have to be included or added to any extra time spent truck driving to stay within drivers hours rules?
Assuming it’s a small van under 3.5t, legally all the time you work in that job will count as other work for the EU regulations and should be recorded as such on charts or printouts.
You only need to record none HGV driving work done in weeks that you drive in-scope of EU regulations and the records need only consist of the date, start/finish times and your name.
It depends on the hours you work but most people who work Monday to Friday in a none HGV driving job find they can legally work 1 day every second week as a HGV driver, but like I say it depends on the hours you normally work and some people legally manage a days HGV driving every week.
yorkielee:
ok so while I spend my weekend gardening or painting or doing other jobs around the house or is that not allowed as its work■■?
No it isn’t work. I know what work is, it’s when someone else decides whether I’m in the pub at 9am or not (if I were so inclined!).
If you’re not being paid and you’re doing someone a favour, then in the absence of any money carrot, it’s up to you to choose your activities and divide your time between leisure and rest.
Most people don’t go home of a weekend and do exactly what they did at work all week, but unpaid - they do something different. But if you can do 6 days driving, and then do a 7th for the pleasure of it, then go ahead.
The rules aren’t there to restrict leisure, they’re there to make sure supposed “leisure” decisions are not biased by the offer of payment, and to control those addicted to the carrot of payment.
yorkielee:
ok so while I spend my weekend gardening or painting or doing other jobs around the house or is that not allowed as its work■■?
No it isn’t work. I know what work is, it’s when someone else decides whether I’m in the pub at 9am or not (if I were so inclined!).
If you’re not being paid and you’re doing someone a favour, then in the absence of any money carrot, it’s up to you to choose your activities and divide your time between leisure and rest.
Most people don’t go home of a weekend and do exactly what they did at work all week, but unpaid - they do something different. But if you can do 6 days driving, and then do a 7th for the pleasure of it, then go ahead.
The rules aren’t there to restrict leisure, they’re there to make sure supposed “leisure” decisions are not biased by the offer of payment, and to control those addicted to the carrot of payment.
so let me get this straight you would convict me for helping my ‘‘mother in law’’ move house if she paid me but you wouldn’t if I was to do it for free■■? what about if she took me on holiday or bought me some new trainers I wanted■■? no matter what I’m still getting paid something
yorkielee:
so let me get this straight you would convict me for helping my ‘‘mother in law’’ move house if she paid me but you wouldn’t if I was to do it for free■■? what about if she took me on holiday or bought me some new trainers I wanted■■? no matter what I’m still getting paid something
I detect you’re asking this in a tone of absurdity and astoundedness.
Is it so hard to understand that the hours rules are not there to deal with every possible way you could be induced to overwork yourself, but to deal with overwork induced by payment?
If you want to move furniture for the mother in law, then either take a holiday from work, or do it unpaid in your own time. If you are not being financially induced to drive and monetary gain is not featuring in your decision, it will not be a concern for you. If it is a concern for you, then the rules are operating to criminalise precisely what they were designed to.
yorkielee:
so let me get this straight you would convict me for helping my ‘‘mother in law’’ move house if she paid me but you wouldn’t if I was to do it for free■■? what about if she took me on holiday or bought me some new trainers I wanted■■? no matter what I’m still getting paid something
I detect you’re asking this in a tone of absurdity and astoundedness.
Is it so hard to understand that the hours rules are not there to deal with every possible way you could be induced to overwork yourself, but to deal with overwork induced by payment?
If you want to move furniture for the mother in law, then either take a holiday from work, or do it unpaid in your own time. If you are not being financially induced to drive and monetary gain is not featuring in your decision, it will not be a concern for you. If it is a concern for you, then the rules are operating to criminalise precisely what they were designed to.
I’m asking this because the OP asked if it would be ok for him who drives a hgv in the week to once (I’m assuming) move his mother in law into her new house… he stated that he would use a 3.5t van to do it in and you have said if he got payment you would convict him, but wouldnt if he did it for free… I myself wouldnt convict anybody who once or even twice did this weather they did it for free or got paid for it… its not his real job and he would only be doing it as its his mother in law… if on the other hand it was his main job and doing it every weekend then yes its a different story…
albion:
That’s what he said. I’d shut about the trainers though otherwise there’s probably a call into HMRC as well.
what about when I take the in laws to the airport and back and they fetch me ■■■■ back for me to then sell on as I don’t smoke is that ok?? I’m sure I could get a jury to find me not guilty just not off this site
yorkielee:
I’m asking this because the OP asked if it would be ok for him who drives a hgv in the week to once (I’m assuming) move his mother in law into her new house… he stated that he would use a 3.5t van to do it in and you have said if he got payment you would convict him, but wouldnt if he did it for free… I myself wouldnt convict anybody who once or even twice did this weather they did it for free or got paid for it… its not his real job and he would only be doing it as its his mother in law… if on the other hand it was his main job and doing it every weekend then yes its a different story…
You say “he would only be doing it as its his mother in law”. If that is true, that it was purely the social relationship that motivated you to do the task, then why take payment on top?
When people are deciding whether they are too tired to do any (or much) driving on a 7th day, it’s important that money is taken out of the equation, and they don’t feel as though they’re “losing money” by not doing the work - it’s only then that people are more likely to strike the correct balance between their big kind heart and their need for rest.
When not offering money, the people, like the mother in law, who are making the request are also more likely to have a good close relationship with you based on trust, which limits the range of people likely to ask you to do this kind of task each weekend, and their closer knowledge of your affairs and concern for your welfare limits the chance of them making unsafe and unhealthy demands.
yorkielee:
I’m asking this because the OP asked if it would be ok for him who drives a hgv in the week to once (I’m assuming) move his mother in law into her new house… he stated that he would use a 3.5t van to do it in and you have said if he got payment you would convict him, but wouldnt if he did it for free… I myself wouldnt convict anybody who once or even twice did this weather they did it for free or got paid for it… its not his real job and he would only be doing it as its his mother in law… if on the other hand it was his main job and doing it every weekend then yes its a different story…
You say “he would only be doing it as its his mother in law”. If that is true, that it was purely the social relationship that motivated you to do the task, then why take payment on top?
When people are deciding whether they are too tired to do any (or much) driving on a 7th day, it’s important that money is taken out of the equation, and they don’t feel as though they’re “losing money” by not doing the work - it’s only then that people are more likely to strike the correct balance between their big kind heart and their need for rest.
When not offering money, the people, like the mother in law, who are making the request are also more likely to have a good close relationship with you based on trust, which limits the range of people likely to ask you to do this kind of task each weekend, and their closer knowledge of your affairs and concern for your welfare limits the chance of them making unsafe and unhealthy demands.
Why not take a payment on top. It shouldn’t matter if there is or isn’t as its one time he would be doing it. Yes in the law black and white it’s illegal I get that but to me and others to do it once under common sense isn’t. Would it be ok if every week I ran a car boot sale on a Sunday?? I would also be hgv driving Monday to Friday■■? The law states I can’t but I am allowed to visit a car boot as a customer.
The laws was put there to stop employers making you work when tired. Somebody doing something they like for extra pocket money in my opinion isn’t breaking the law and I would never convict someone for doing it.
The regs are weird like when I was in the folk group. I did it because it was relaxation for me and it was a bonus getting paid. I was breaking the rules. Yet if I had done it for nothing it would have been fine. I wasn’t driving but doing something I enjoyed yet it was illegal. Paid or not we would have been doing it anyway for fun.
Your free time is for you to relax and you can dispose of in whatever way floats your boat. Another example if you decided to drive the car to somewhere far away and back say Newcastle to London for the weekend you were off that isn’t illegal that breaks no rules. The rules re time off are ridiculous. You could be knackered after that and still be able to drive on the Monday.
If Iam wrong here I am sure someone will be along to correct me.
yorkielee:
I’m asking this because the OP asked if it would be ok for him who drives a hgv in the week to once (I’m assuming) move his mother in law into her new house… he stated that he would use a 3.5t van to do it in and you have said if he got payment you would convict him, but wouldnt if he did it for free… I myself wouldnt convict anybody who once or even twice did this weather they did it for free or got paid for it… its not his real job and he would only be doing it as its his mother in law… if on the other hand it was his main job and doing it every weekend then yes its a different story…
You say “he would only be doing it as its his mother in law”. If that is true, that it was purely the social relationship that motivated you to do the task, then why take payment on top?
Sometimes especially with the older generation, they will insist on payment and you can’t refuse without risk of hurting their pride.
Rjan:
When people are deciding whether they are too tired to do any (or much) driving on a 7th day, it’s important that money is taken out of the equation, and they don’t feel as though they’re “losing money” by not doing the work - it’s only then that people are more likely to strike the correct balance between their big kind heart and their need for rest.
If you have promised to help family or friends, then you’d keep that promise regardless on how tired you feel and regardless if you’re getting paid or not.
Rjan:
When not offering money, the people, like the mother in law, who are making the request are also more likely to have a good close relationship with you based on trust, which limits the range of people likely to ask you to do this kind of task each weekend, and their closer knowledge of your affairs and concern for your welfare limits the chance of them making unsafe and unhealthy demands.
If the relationship between family or friends is that close then the payment is not part of a contract of employment, but a thank you for giving your time up. So they’ll still be interested in your welfare. In fact the type of family or friend who’d expect you to do it for no reward, is more likely not to notice if they are making unsafe and unhealthy demands.
volvo2:
The regs are weird like when I was in the folk group. I did it because it was relaxation for me and it was a bonus getting paid. I was breaking the rules. Yet if I had done it for nothing it would have been fine. I wasn’t driving but doing something I enjoyed yet it was illegal. Paid or not we would have been doing it anyway for fun.
Your free time is for you to relax and you can dispose of in whatever way floats your boat. Another example if you decided to drive the car to somewhere far away and back say Newcastle to London for the weekend you were off that isn’t illegal that breaks no rules. The rules re time off are ridiculous. You could be knackered after that and still be able to drive on the Monday.
If Iam wrong here I am sure someone will be along to correct me.
The regs aren’t weird, but can never cover all situations. The basic idea is ok to stop you being forced to work 7 days a week, but obviously for you playing music is a hobby that you’re lucky enough to get paid for, technically it’s against the regs, and in your post you said it was a young lad who asked, so maybe a bit keen. I’ve heard of others being questioned about driving horse boxes and winning prize money at a show.
Like other have said next time don’t admit you’re being paid and as long as you’ve had enough rest to be fit for work on Monday nobody should worry.
Some people live in a little bubble it seems, and have no real understanding or compassion for the demands on the lives of others…
The law is clearly designed to STOP people driving tired, and committing themselves to more work than is a appropriate for the responsibilities of our job. Now that is fine, but to try and hold that argument for someone helping out a friend or doing something they would do anyway whether it’s paid or not is ludicrous.
A bit of common sense is required, which worryingly it seems not everyone has!
