I just had a look at Toytowns Renault Magnum on Ebay. Its a nice truck and will be a bargain for somebody.
But I was struck by a comment Toytown made that it could be driven on the road on a car licence if the fifth wheel was removed.
My understanding is that it could be driven by the holder of a class C licence, provided that it was not towing a trailer, regardless of whether a fifth wheel was fitted, but it would most definitely NOT be legal to drive it on a car licence, even if the fifth wheel was removed.
remove the 5th wheel and you can drive it on a car license, not sure about the newer car license passes though, because they can’t drive 7.5 ton anymore
The use for Hire or Reward does not come into the equation.
I run a vintage artic, and although it rarely carries a load (never for hire or reward) I am still reguired to have an LGV licence.
If the fifth wheel is removed, it has no ability to carry a load and therefore ceases to become a Large Goods Vehicle.
If the fifth wheel is left on, then it can be driven without a trailer by the holder of a class C licence as it is effecively a rigid vehicle. However, holders of certain class C licences (those who held the old Class 2 & 3, I think) can however draw a single axle semi-trailer. This was just down to a loophole in the licencing law which now appears to have been closed to new licence holders.
This is my understanding of the law. If I am wrong, then somebody please correct me.
biggusdickusgb:
remove the 5th wheel and you can drive it on a car license, not sure about the newer car license passes though, because they can’t drive 7.5 ton anymore
With the fifth wheel removed, I think it ceases to have a ‘Gross Vehicle Weight’ because it is no longer able to carry a load.
My understanding is that if the 5th wheel is removed and it weighs less than 7.5 tonnes then it can be driven on a car licence, but only if you passed your test before Jan 1st 1997. Not sure what the story is if you passed after that date though.
My understanding is that it could be driven by the holder of a class C licence, provided that it was not towing a trailer, regardless of whether a fifth wheel was fitted, but it would most definitely NOT be legal to drive it on a car licence, even if the fifth wheel was removed.
Vince & All
i sincerely hope I havn’t mislead anybody on EBAY !!!
i was absolutely 100% sire I was right, but do agree that only those that passed before 1997 can do it.
Our insurance co actually insured it for donna, who has no HGV but they stipulated that it would need to be PHG taxed AND have no mechanical device for hauling a load or towing a semi trailer (presumed they mean 5th wheel or body)
Vince:
My understanding is that it could be driven by the holder of a class C licence, provided that it was not towing a trailer, regardless of whether a fifth wheel was fitted, but it would most definitely NOT be legal to drive it on a car licence, even if the fifth wheel was removed.
I would assume the removal of the 5th wheel has to be combined with a replating of the vehicle to something less than 7500Kg, then a driver with C1 on their licence can drive it. This isn’t strictly a “car licence” though (that being category B), but prior to 1997 anyone who passed their Cat B test got C1 thrown in “for free”. People who passed their B test after 1997 aren’t going to be able to drive it though as they are limited to 3500Kg.
Toytown:
Our insurance co actually insured it for donna, who has no HGV but they stipulated that it would need to be PHG taxed AND have no mechanical device for hauling a load or towing a semi trailer (presumed they mean 5th wheel or body)
Hope I’m right !!!
No offence mate but thats absolute madness. Weight issues aside, a Magnum is WAY bigger than a car and even a 7.5 tonner. I shudder at the thought of having someone who possibly hasn’t even driven a Transit turn up to your house and drive it away…sadly all legally.
Still, chances are the gearbox would end up sat on the road with a few miles.
That said, a lot of the so called law is madness & what do we do, abide by the law as it is, or abide by our own “rules” ■■
Also it depends who it is, trucks aren’t so difficult to drive empty are they, most people with a little bit of savy could work a unit on it’s own in relative safety with a bit of guidance ? Afterall, it’s no wider, much shorter & no higher than a 7.5 tonner, weighs the same & anybody that passed before 1997 can drive one of those commercially !
A friend of mie has only ever driven transits at most & recently bought a 40’ Leyland coach for his racing, took his CatC & passed, & I have seen him drive it & would puit him way in front of some of the muppets I see daily !!
vince mate, i was under impression too that if fifth wheel was removed then a car licence holder could drive it…that is how chris eubank gets away with it
margatemafia:
vince mate, i was under impression too that if fifth wheel was removed then a car licence holder could drive it…that is how chris eubank gets away with it
TMOH says: -
Drivers of incomplete vehicles comprising a chassis and cab only ( ie before bodywork is fitted) and of articulated tractive units not yet fitted with a fifth wheel need (from 1 january 1998) must hold either a cat C1 driving entitlement for such vehicles weighing between 3.5 and 7.5 tonnes, or a category C entitlement for such vehicles weighing over 7.5 tonnes. Prior to this date incomplete vehicles could be driven on a category B licence covering motor cars and light vans
note - extra need/must is in the text of the book !
now, that either means
if you passed your cat B test before 1/1/98 you can drive an incomplete vehicle OR
you could drive an incomplete LGV on a car licence prior to 1/1/98 but you can’t now…
margatemafia:
vince mate, i was under impression too that if fifth wheel was removed then a car licence holder could drive it…that is how chris eubank gets away with it
I thought I had heard somewhere that Chris Eubank actually holds an LGV licence
You have to have passed your driving test before 01/01/1998 and have category B on your licence.
The vehicle has to have it’s Fifth-wheel & all associated bracketry removed to be reclassified as an incomplete vehicle by VOSA at it’s last inspection before you can drive it.
