A friend of a friend says he has a race car transporter, plated at 12 tonnes but that owing to its age (pre-1997) he is OK to drive it on the C1 “grandfather rights” entitlement of his car licence. Might that be correct? It doesn’t sound right to me. He seems to think that, because the whole outfit when loaded with his car etc only tips the scales at 7.2 tonnes he is OK?
Roymondo:
A friend of a friend says he has a race car transporter, plated at 12 tonnes but that owing to its age (pre-1997) he is OK to drive it on the C1 “grandfather rights” entitlement of his car licence. Might that be correct? It doesn’t sound right to me. He seems to think that, because the whole outfit when loaded with his car etc only tips the scales at 7.2 tonnes he is OK?
As far as I’m aware if it’s plated at 12 tonnes he needs a cat C license to drive it regardless of the gross weight he will run with and regardless of it being registered pre-1997, driving with a gross weight of no-more than 7.5 tonne doesn’t make it a 7.5 tonner.
He could probably have the vehicle down plated to 7.5 tonne MAM but I don’t know much about that so will leave more knowledgeable people to answer that one 
tachograph:
He could probably have the vehicle down plated to 7.5 tonne MAM but I don’t know much about that so will leave more knowledgeable people to answer that one
Indeed this is the only way he could do it (not that I fall into the “more knowledgeable” 
)
Roymondo:
A friend of a friend says he has a race car transporter, plated at 12 tonnes but that owing to its age (pre-1997) he is OK to drive it on the C1 “grandfather rights” entitlement of his car licence. Might that be correct? It doesn’t sound right to me. He seems to think that, because the whole outfit when loaded with his car etc only tips the scales at 7.2 tonnes he is OK?
From what you have posted it sounds very much like he is driving the vehicle without a licence, and therefore probably without insurance either as any insurance he has will be invalid if someone who isn’t legally allowed to drive the vehicle is at the wheel.
The age of the vehicle has no bearing on drive licencing at all as far as I am aware, apart from perhaps some very old stuff that classes as “vintage”. Certainly there is nothing in the law that says stuff older than 1997 can be driven without a licence!
If it only comes in at 7200kg with all his stuff in then he should downplate it to 7500kg (or perhaps 7499kg to be sure?) and he will then be legal. I’ve never done this myself but I believe it is a fairly simple and cheap paperwork exercise.
Paul
Roymondo:
A friend of a friend says he has a race car transporter, plated at 12 tonnes but that owing to its age (pre-1997) he is OK to drive it on the C1 “grandfather rights” entitlement of his car licence. Might that be correct? It doesn’t sound right to me. He seems to think that, because the whole outfit when loaded with his car etc only tips the scales at 7.2 tonnes he is OK?
To be honest, this sounds like one of the better MMTM tales from the drivers waiting room,
in case it’s not…
It would appear that this person has a deliberate misunderstanding of various Road Traffic Acts and has picked out various bits that suit him to try and justify what he is doing.
The age of the vehicle in this case is not relevant.
(To drive a goods vehicle with a car licence requires the goods vehicle
to be pre-1960 and even then, it must not be laden.)
The age of his driving licence however is, to enable him to drive a goods vehicle of up to 7.5 tonnes without the need to take another test.
By an amazing coincidence, the cut off is 1st January 1997.
As above, the plated weight of the vehicle , 12 tonnes, is what determines the type of licence needed to drive it.
The actual weight, under 7.5 tonnes, is irrelevant.
I think it highly unlikely the VOSA would be prepared to downplate a 12 tonne rigid to 7.5 tonnes,
particularly as this would allow what is an LGV to be driven by a car licence holder.
Even if they did, some kind of structural alteration would almost certainly be required.
I think he is taking the mickey and agree that his insurance will be invalid, either because he does not and has never held a licence to drive the vehicle
or because he has not disclosed material facts to his insurance company.
Or both.
Regards,
Nick.
Post 97 c1 gives you entitlement to drive upto 12 tonnes MAM, pre 97 c1 only gives you 7.5 tonnes.
This is a genuine query arising from a discussion among some non-HGV licence holding friends talking about getting Group C licences (one in particular having connections with an amateur theatrical group who sometimes use hired trucks). I had already chipped in with my observation that the arrangement described was not, in my view, legal.
MADBAZ:
Post 97 c1 gives you entitlement to drive upto 12 tonnes MAM, pre 97 c1 only gives you 7.5 tonnes.
Not quite, post 1/1/ 97, C1 is still goods vehicles between 3.5 and 7.5 tonnes gross.
C1+E is a different category and entitles the driving of the combination of a 7.5 tonne goods vehicle and a trailer weighing up to 12 tonnes,
ie with a gross train weight of 12 tonnes.
The laden trailer must not weigh more than the tare weight of the 7.5 tonne vehicle.
No matter which parts of the rules one chooses to ignore or re-interpret, a goods vehicle with a plated weight of 12,000 kgs requires a
category C entitlement.
Regards,
Nick.
ncooper:
C1+E is a different category and entitles the driving of the combination of a 7.5 tonne goods vehicle and a trailer weighing up to 12 tonnes,
ie with a gross train weight of 12 tonnes.
The laden trailer must not weigh more than the tare weight of the 7.5 tonne vehicle.
Not really relevent to this thread but the C1E on a pre-1997 licence will be restricted to 8250 kgs.
ncooper:
I think it highly unlikely the VOSA would be prepared to downplate a 12 tonne rigid to 7.5 tonnes,
particularly as this would allow what is an LGV to be driven by a car licence holder.
Even if they did, some kind of structural alteration would almost certainly be required.
I don’t see why not given that most 12 tonners seem to just be slightly uprated 7.5 tonners anyway, especially given the guy can prove that fully laden for its intended purpose it only comes in at 7200kg.
Paul
my guess - the 12 tonnes is GTW and the GVW is 7.5 tonnes
MADBAZ:
Post 97 c1 gives you entitlement to drive upto 12 tonnes MAM, pre 97 c1 only gives you 7.5 tonnes.
I don’t even remember posting this 
.
Ncooper is quite right.