One problem with that DD is that I have no “EE brothers or sisters.” I do have an ex Czech sister in law that we can’t get rid of. Will she do in part X?
xichrisxi:
Being a driver who has done his fair share of continental work (I used to go to Anglesey at least once a week,it’s an island,it’s continental work)I know how hard it can be to visit a foreign country and not have a clue what people are talking about,I take my hat off to any fellow “contis”.
SO… You don’t equate with scousers, retired manks & roadraging paddys off the Dublin to Holyhead ferry then■■?..
simon1958:
xichrisxi:
Being a driver who has done his fair share of continental work (I used to go to Anglesey at least once a week,it’s an island,it’s continental work)I know how hard it can be to visit a foreign country and not have a clue what people are talking about,I take my hat off to any fellow “contis”.SO… You don’t equate with scousers, retired manks & roadraging paddys off the Dublin to Holyhead ferry then■■?..
No just delivery to places on Anglesy itself.
Juddian:
short history lesson…drivers became lazy, didn’t want to rope and sheet…job deskilled…wanted automatic boxes…job deskilled…didn’t want to touch the load, handball you wot??..job deskilled and made easy…wanted ever more comfortable lorries that a chimp could drive…job made easy and now desirable.
i’ve seen you write this before, now you’re one of the brighter ones on here, but! i’m sorry mate, i think that’s a load of crap! it’s called progress, whether you like it or not, think it’s a step forward or backwards, you can’t stop it.
the people before the ones you’re saying messed it up, the ones who had it right in your book, well they weren’t riding horses, but the ones who thought like yourself who did ride the horses, probably thought the same when trucks appeared.
drivers didn’t become lazy and not want to rope and sheet, someone thought there’s a better way than that and built a curtain sider. at that point people will of gone off the idea, as there is now a better way.
i’ve never heard a single driver demand auto boxes in trucks before you could get them, it’s something the manufacturers pushed. if anything you’re completely wrong on the auto boxes as the vast majority of drivers weren’t very accepting of auto boxes when they 1st started to appear and it’s only really the ishift which is universally accepted now anyway.
didn’t want to touch the load, again you can’t stop the progress that’s the container revolution
of course people wanted more comfort, who wouldn’t want more comfort? saying you’d want to keep driving crap uncomfortable trucks in order to put people off, to keep wages up, is a bit bonkers to me!
it’s to easy to become a hgv driver, make it harder, dearer and wages will rise. the dcpc could be a great tool for better wages, but 99% of drivers are against it, can’t see it’s potential advantages. embrace the training, not necessarily for what it teaches you either. i call for it to be be made harder, make it a real test, pass / fail. i’d have modules you have to pass for each trailer type before you could pull them, tankers, bulkers etc then you can’t just go and put a bum on a seat.
Stevieboy, while you can disagree with whether or not drivers have become lazy, you surely can’t disagree the reason wages have stagnated in certain sectors of the industry is because of the progress you highlighted!
F-reds:
Stevieboy, while you can disagree with whether or not drivers have become lazy, you surely can’t disagree the reason wages have stagnated in certain sectors of the industry is because of the progress you highlighted!
I’ve not said drivers haven’t become lazy!
Anything that effects the supply and demand will have an effect on wages. If something is more appealing, then it’ll generally have a negative effect on wages
stevieboy308:
Juddian:
short history lesson…drivers became lazy, didn’t want to rope and sheet…job deskilled…wanted automatic boxes…job deskilled…didn’t want to touch the load, handball you wot??..job deskilled and made easy…wanted ever more comfortable lorries that a chimp could drive…job made easy and now desirable.of course people wanted more comfort, who wouldn’t want more comfort? saying you’d want to keep driving crap uncomfortable trucks in order to put people off, to keep wages up, is a bit bonkers to me!
it’s to easy to become a hgv driver, make it harder, dearer and wages will rise. the dcpc could be a great tool for better wages, but 99% of drivers are against it, can’t see it’s potential advantages. embrace the training, not necessarily for what it teaches you either. i call for it to be be made harder, make it a real test, pass / fail. i’d have modules you have to pass for each trailer type before you could pull them, tankers, bulkers etc then you can’t just go and put a bum on a seat.
Fair comment Stevieboy.
I can’t be the only one who’s worked on some jobs over the years that were well paid yet they struggled to get drivers, one such was Kwik Save, cracking little job that was, yet had they ditched the day cab Scanny’s we had that were just about the best urban tractor for the job you could get, and bought flashier stuff, that would have been impractical, they’d have been beating applicants off with a crappy stick, you know and i know it and the lads who worked there all hoped the gaffers wouldn’t suss it for themselves.
So yes maybe i am a bit bonkers, cos i’m quite happy to put up with some discomfort or being looked down on in the kudos stakes in order that they have to offer better terms to get people, especially if it keeps the job undersubscribed, maybe thats me and it may well be that i’m wrong as i often am…part of the reason the car carriers struggle for staff is the cut down cabs, drivers just don’t want to know despite there being some serious money to be earned.
Couldn’t agree more with your last sentence, and coupled with being well unionised, part of the reason the train drivers have kept exclusive well paid jobs.
But we are where we are, i’m trying to offer some advice, whether its right or wrong, to help those who want to better themselves but stay driving, to do so in the current situation which i can’t see changing anytime soon, if too many with HGV’s are coming through basic training or landing on these shores then it makes sense far as i can see to find niches that suit you as a driver and exploit them for your benefit.
Answer me this, what incentive is there for an employer to pay top rates for a standard lorry chauffering job?, there isn’t so long as he can get a constant supply of new bums, if he’s short he’ll just call the agency and pay nearer the going rate for a few weeks for the handful of extra bums he needs, then normal service will resume, we’ve seen just how bad things have got since 2008 with drivers in not so good areas getting wages that are lower than they might have been earning in the 90’s, i see no forseeable end to this situation, the govt of the day isn’t going to make attaining a licence any harder or more expensive cos the industry giants and rep bodies won’t wear it, so my suggestion is for those who want to beat the system to move within the industry and find those alternative jobs for themselves…that may not be in the spirit of drivers unity, but drivers unity ideals, decent though the philosophy is, isn’t going to pay your mortgage off over the next 30 years.
I don’t think driving is an easy attractive job for young lads.
When you go in services or truck stops how many lads do you see under 30 very few. Even under 40 there ain’t many.
You say to young lad your going be working for £7p/h. Live in tin can all week. £8p/h o/t.
Doing 13-15 all week.
No start or finish times.
Instead of the new young blood coming through its a influx of foreign drivers.
I don’t see what’s attractive about it.
You lads have been doing it for years have seen the changes you are talking about. But it still ain’t attractive as there no young lads doing the job.
Moocher… Like every industry ,transport has a pyramid, the vast majority will languish at the bottom of it. I worked with guys that worked at the bottom, on basic wages and crap trucks, of those guys most are still there, but a few have moved on. Guys I have worked with on the bottom level are now working worldwide. many are knocking on 50K a year and are in demand almost picking and choosing where they go next.
the ones that have made it are those who go the extra mile, who are part of a team, work with their mates rather than back bite and get a reputation of being able to do the job without moaning- no-one gave these guys there jobs, they started at the bottom and earnt enough respect . You wont find these jobs advertised, they don’t need to advertise, you get the job via reputation
At the top of the pyramid its a very small world. Everyone knows everyone and knows all your mistakes- you don’t get there by simply having a licence you got to earn your stripes/scars at the arse end of the industry- and then get lucky
Themoocher:
I don’t think driving is an easy attractive job for young lads.
When you go in services or truck stops how many lads do you see under 30 very few. Even under 40 there ain’t many.
You say to young lad your going be working for £7p/h. Live in tin can all week. £8p/h o/t.
Doing 13-15 all week.
No start or finish times.Instead of the new young blood coming through its a influx of foreign drivers.
I don’t see what’s attractive about it.
You lads have been doing it for years have seen the changes you are talking about. But it still ain’t attractive as there no young lads doing the job.
So how do you explain ‘young people’ going for the even worse option of joining the services.IE away from home for months.Sometimes life threatening situations,following orders with no chance of refusal or walking away without a prison sentence and a ‘beasting’.From experience I’d guess that there are still a high proportion of those who join up doing it through lack of other job opportunities not choice.Lack of other job opportunities probably fitting the description of no access to a job in the road transport industry because it’s over subscribed.In which just like my day in the 1970’s/80’s the older experienced drivers were always most in demand.You can now obviously add to that the immigrant EU driver addition to the workforce who’ve got their licence and obviously leapfrog the young as yet unqualified indigenous pool. 
Rikki-UK:
Moocher… Like every industry ,transport has a pyramid, the vast majority will languish at the bottom of it. I worked with guys that worked at the bottom, on basic wages and crap trucks, of those guys most are still there, but a few have moved on. Guys I have worked with on the bottom level are now working worldwide. many are knocking on 50K a year and are in demand almost picking and choosing where they go next.the ones that have made it are those who go the extra mile, who are part of a team, work with their mates rather than back bite and get a reputation of being able to do the job without moaning- no-one gave these guys there jobs, they started at the bottom and earnt enough respect . You wont find these jobs advertised, they don’t need to advertise, you get the job via reputation
At the top of the pyramid its a very small world. Everyone knows everyone and knows all your mistakes- you don’t get there my simply having a licence you got to earn your stripes/scars at the arse end of the industry- and then get lucky
^ So much truth in that, particularly your 2nd paragraph.
But you’re wasting your breath Rikki. I keep saying it and I keep getting abuse for it but the vast majority of drivers ARE thick ■■■■■ that can’t even find their own arse hole without a map, torch and a sheet of instructions. They think that the top of the pyramid in order to “make it” in the trucking world is driving a V8 Scania all week doing 5 nights out and 70 hours for £500. Anyone that deviates from this path is treated with disdain for daring to better their lot and God help you if you happen to mention your earnings or even earning potential 
. I can guarantee you there will be people sat at home reading your post right now scoffing at your “knocking on 50K a year” comment, calling you a bull[zb]ter. It doesn’t matter how many times you try to explain it in words of one syllable to them, they simply don’t want to know. All they are bothered about is having their “own” wagon and getting their 5 nights out and 70 hours for their £500. Anyone else is a clever ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ in their eyes.
And when Eastern European(or any foreign driver) is going the extra mile for his employer he/she is preferred over the British driver that is moaning left and right. 
Am I correct or mistaken? Because people from EE are not dumb or slaves, we all have families to.
Dolph:
And when Eastern European(or any foreign driver) is going the extra mile for his employer he/she is preferred over the British driver that is moaning left and right.
Am I correct or mistaken? Because people from EE are not dumb or slaves, we all have families to.
The kind of “extra mile” that flipflops go by putting the truck in a ditch or stuck down a single track lane is not the same “extra mile” that we’re talking about here.
Carl Usher:
Dolph:
And when Eastern European(or any foreign driver) is going the extra mile for his employer he/she is preferred over the British driver that is moaning left and right.
Am I correct or mistaken? Because people from EE are not dumb or slaves, we all have families to.The kind of “extra mile” that flipflops go by putting the truck in a ditch or stuck down a single track lane is not the same “extra mile” that we’re talking about here.
Like all British drivers are perfect, c’mon don’t tell me you think all EE drivers are the same…
Although I’m one of the masses who like 5 nights out a week & 70+ hours for me £600+ take home I realise there are higher tiers of this profession. Do I strive for more money well yes but for now I’m happy doing what I do. Other avenues of income are available to me but for now I can’t be arsed to look at them. UK or EE matters not, we are all striving for the same thing to put food on the table with some left over for luxuries and daring do ■■■■■■ adventures (I may be in the minority on the last one).
Now doing some DD on PDU using Google, way back machine and some less well known searching techniques I seem to have found some form of vendetta between Barrie and Pat from PDA/PDF.
Very confusing with all this PDA, PDF, PDU, Pmepants stuff.
Familiar faces crop up from time to time and going back 10 years to an initial fallout between Barrie and the PDA over some campaign regarding the WTD, then 5 years later over the DCPC, it all smells of a hidden agenda to me
How deep the rabbit hole goes I have no idea but for now I can’t pledge my support for this PDU thing, especially not for £25, that’s 10 hours on trampers pay.
Radar19:
Dolph:
Themoocher:
Dolph:
Every single thread comes down to Eastern Europeans, apparently is our fault to even breath and be alive
P.S. Cost of Class 1 or 2 is the same as UK compared to standard of living. Here the licence(training,exams,certificates) is coasting one average monthly salary. In UK is the same.
Well if you go in some African countries might coast half a peanutNo one is saying that.
You make everyone sound like BNP loyalists.
There to many EE truck drivers or ware house staff with Fork ticket that wants to work for 6.50 hour soon to be 9 hour.
No one has got a problem with immigration as long as it’s controlled with skills and experience the country needs not a bunch of [zb] Romanians with a licence.
If you want to live here it should be the same immigration process as the rest of the world.
I don’t see why British nationals who marry foreigners can’t have there wife’s here but the whole of the EE is got a free ticket.
There should be working visa and ID cards in place.You obviously do.
EU doesn’t need your pensioners or alcoholic youth(tourists or employees) to.
What does “a bunch of Romanians with licences means”?Actually, those drunken youths spend a lot of money, helping the local economy there,
Britain “finest”
dailymail.co.uk/news/article … f-ice.html
Don’t think nationality is important where revelry is concerned. Advertising skimpy barmaids+free shots will bring out the best in any one regardless of heritage.
I do like to think us Brit’s are best at binge drinking though.
Still prefer Shagaluff, lost both me virginitys there.
Rikki-UK:
Moocher… Like every industry ,transport has a pyramid, the vast majority will languish at the bottom of it. I worked with guys that worked at the bottom, on basic wages and crap trucks, of those guys most are still there, but a few have moved on. Guys I have worked with on the bottom level are now working worldwide. many are knocking on 50K a year and are in demand almost picking and choosing where they go next.the ones that have made it are those who go the extra mile, who are part of a team, work with their mates rather than back bite and get a reputation of being able to do the job without moaning- no-one gave these guys there jobs, they started at the bottom and earnt enough respect . You wont find these jobs advertised, they don’t need to advertise, you get the job via reputation
At the top of the pyramid its a very small world. Everyone knows everyone and knows all your mistakes- you don’t get there by simply having a licence you got to earn your stripes/scars at the arse end of the industry- and then get lucky
“…welcome to the layer cake son” 
I received this:-
May I request you refrain from argument on the TN Forum.
I thank you for your support and your good intentions in promoting the PDU but please be careful not to make statements on our behalf.
To make clear the PDU would welcome and we already have members from Non-UK Drivers who live and work in the UK. They have the same issues as others and are welcome to join the unity.
The PDF is now a well-established Charity for Drivers and have done very good work and should be applauded for what they have achieved.
There are many who will never join or be willing to give the PDU a chance and only in time can it prove itself and gain the trust of those non-believers that unity can bring about more respect and change. By fuelling argument you may do more harm than good so let them read the information on the website and make up their own minds.
Thank you for joining and supporting the PDU
Barrie
So best I shut up now.
Well that’s wonderful, we now know Barrie reads or is aware of the discussion on this site. But the fact he doesn’t want to come on here and participate probably hurts his charity more than what anyone else’s says in support of him…
But on the bright side, at least he knows that some of us think a 12 year old designed his website!