Drivers hours/WTD hours

ASK THE EXPERTS SAFETY, LAW AND WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE FORUM (INTE
1

Please can someone cast their eye over this and tell me if i’ve got this right? (have printed out and read through the VOSA booklet but am struggling slightly…)

Driving Time:

Can’t do more driving/other work than 9 hours/day (midnight-midnight) except on two days, when can do 10 hours.

Above subject to max 56 hours driving per week, or 90 per fortnight.

Driving rest of 45 mins after 4.5 hours, and then start counting for the next 4.5 hours.

Need daily rest of at least 11 hours (or 12 hours if split 9:3), or 9hours no more than three times a week? A week being a period between 2 weekly rests.

A weekly rest of at least 45 consecutive hours needed, but reduced rest of 24 hours allowed providing you make it up by end of the third week subsequent, by adding time onto the daily rest period. Is there any averaging etc with this - i.e. if we assume I work 6 days every week, can take a day off as the 24 hour weekly rest, and add the remaining 21 onto the daily rest on the days i work? so could work 7.5hrs/day six days a week indefinately??

WTD must be complied with also and requires no more driving/other work than 48 hours per week averaged over 17 weeks, and definately no week more than 60 hours.

POA/Break time not included in the total working time.

Mustn’t do more than 6 hours of OW without a break, must have 30 mins break (in at least 15 min segments) if 6 - 9 hour day, or 45 mins if over 9 hour work. Presumably this can be the same as driving break, i.e. if driving for 4.5 hours and OW for 6.5 hours in any day, only need 45 min break total?

Faced with the prospect of trying to make up maximum hours taking work from 3 or 4 different agencies, i’m starting to get nervous about this!

2

Talulah:
Please can someone cast their eye over this and tell me if i’ve got this right? (have printed out and read through the VOSA booklet but am struggling slightly…)

Driving Time:

Can’t do more driving/other work than 9 hours/day (midnight-midnight) except on two days, when can do 10 hours.
Ok, but it is within a 24 hour period from when your shift started - not Midnight to Midnight
Above subject to max 56 hours driving per week, or 90 per fortnight.
Correct
Driving rest of 45 mins after 4.5 hours, and then start counting for the next 4.5 hours.
Correct, but can be a 15 followed by a 30 then counter resets

Need daily rest of at least 11 hours (or 12 hours if split 9:3), or 9hours no more than three times a week? A week being a period between 2 weekly rests.
Correct but there can be variations in certain circumstances - tachograph can tell you about them if you want to know
A weekly rest of at least 45 consecutive hours needed, but reduced rest of 24 hours allowed providing you make it up by end of the third week subsequent, by adding time onto the daily rest period. Is there any averaging etc with this - i.e. if we assume I work 6 days every week, can take a day off as the 24 hour weekly rest, and add the remaining 21 onto the daily rest on the days i work? so could work 7.5hrs/day six days a week indefinately??
tachograph for this one me thinks
WTD must be complied with also and requires no more driving/other work than 48 hours per week averaged over 17 weeks, and definately no week more than 60 hours.
can be over a 26 week period with agreements
POA/Break time not included in the total working time.
correct
Mustn’t do more than 6 hours of OW without a break, must have 30 mins break (in at least 15 min segments) if 6 - 9 hour day, or 45 mins if over 9 hour work. Presumably this can be the same as driving break, i.e. if driving for 4.5 hours and OW for 6.5 hours in any day, only need 45 min break total?
Correct

Faced with the prospect of trying to make up maximum hours taking work from 3 or 4 different agencies, i’m starting to get nervous about this!

You’re nervous :exclamation: :exclamation: - I’ve just left myself wide open to be SHOT :open_mouth: on an open forum :exclamation: :unamused: :wink: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

PS - I think holidays count for 8 hours a day for WTD purposes and 40 hours if a whole week is taken but not too sure on this

3

Talulah:
Driving Time:

Can’t do more driving/other work than 9 hours/day (midnight-midnight) except on two days, when can do 10 hours.

Forget the other work bit there. Those times are pure driving

Talulah:
Driving rest of 45 mins after 4.5 hours, and then start counting for the next 4.5 hours.

Aye, you must take 45 before or when you reach 4h30m. Driving time resets. You could split this into a two. 1st period minimum 15m and 2nd period minimum 30m.

Talulah:
Need daily rest of at least 11 hours (or 12 hours if split 9:3), or 9hours no more than three times a week? A week being a period between 2 weekly rests.

Yep. Bear in mind these rest have to be taken in the 24 hour period from when you commence your shift. So if you start at 0700 you have to be finished by either 2000 or 2200 in order that you can fit your daily rest period in before 0700 the next day. This give the day a spreadover time of 13 or 15 hours.

If the split daily rest option is chosen then it’s 1st period minimum 3h and 2nd period minimum 9h. In that order.

Talulah:
A weekly rest of at least 45 consecutive hours needed, but reduced rest of 24 hours allowed providing you make it up by end of the third week subsequent, by adding time onto the daily rest period. Is there any averaging etc with this - i.e. if we assume I work 6 days every week, can take a day off as the 24 hour weekly rest, and add the remaining 21 onto the daily rest on the days i work? so could work 7.5hrs/day six days a week indefinately??

Numbers right method wrong. If you are allowed to reduce this reduction must be paid back in one complete block. So if take 24 hours reduced weekly rest, you have a block of 21h to add as a complete block to either a daily rest period or a weekly rest period, by the end of the third week after the week in which the reduction was taken.

Talulah:
WTD must be complied with also and requires no more driving/other work than 48 hours per week averaged over 17 weeks, and definately no week more than 60 hours.

POA/Break time not included in the total working time.

Depends on where you work. Reference period can be longer than 17 weeks (up to 26) and could be fixed or rolling. It depends on what the workforce have agreed to. But the hours are ok.

Talulah:
Mustn’t do more than 6 hours of OW without a break, must have 30 mins break (in at least 15 min segments) if 6 - 9 hour day, or 45 mins if over 9 hour work. Presumably this can be the same as driving break, i.e. if driving for 4.5 hours and OW for 6.5 hours in any day, only need 45 min break total?

Take multidrop work. This is where you probably find that this applied.

Start 0600 Finish 1400. But only 4 hours driving is done throughout this shift and the rest is other work (loading, unloading, etc.)

You don’t need to take any driving breaks as you are only driving for 4h. But you are working (that’s other work/drive time combined) more than 6 hours, so you’d need to get at least 15 minutes in before 1200. Then as you are working for 8h, you’d need to fit another 15m in before the end of the shift. You could of course take 30 minutes at 1000 and that would be okay. The problem can be deciding when to take a break, when you’ve no idea when the shift will end. WTD can be a pain in the arse, but I wouldn’t worry about it as much as getting the driving hours correct.

4

Talulah:
Please can someone cast their eye over this and tell me if i’ve got this right? (have printed out and read through the VOSA booklet but am struggling slightly…)

Driving Time:

Can’t do more driving/other work than 9 hours/day (midnight-midnight) except on two days, when can do 10 hours.

Not quite correct.
You can do 9 hours driving between two daily rest periods (midnight to midnight doesn’t come into it) this can be extended to 10 hours driving no more than twice a week ( A week is 00:00 Monday to 24:00 Sunday)

Talulah:
Above subject to max 56 hours driving per week, or 90 per fortnight.

Correct but remember that for tachograph regulations a week is 00:00 Monday to 24:00 Sunday, (midnight Sunday to midnight Sunday)

Talulah:
Driving rest of 45 mins after 4.5 hours, and then start counting for the next 4.5 hours.

Correct, the 45 minute rest can be split into no more than 2 parts, the first part must be no less than 15 minutes, the second part must be no less than 30 minutes, if you have a split break it’s important that they are taken in the correct order.

Talulah:
Need daily rest of at least 11 hours (or 12 hours if split 9:3), or 9hours no more than three times a week? A week being a period between 2 weekly rests.

Basically correct except that you got the 9 hours and 3 hours the wrong way round, this is important.
You should have no less than 11 hours daily rest to be completed within 24 hours from the start of the shift.
The daily rest can be reduced to 9 hours no more than three times between weekly rest periods

If a split daily rest is taken it’s important to remember that the first part must be no less than 3 hours and the second part no less than 9 hours.

Talulah:
A weekly rest of at least 45 consecutive hours needed, but reduced rest of 24 hours allowed providing you make it up by end of the third week subsequent, by adding time onto the daily rest period. Is there any averaging etc with this - i.e. if we assume I work 6 days every week, can take a day off as the 24 hour weekly rest, and add the remaining 21 onto the daily rest on the days i work? so could work 7.5hrs/day six days a week indefinately??

A weekly rest of no less than 45 hours is required after no more than six 24 hour periods from the start of the first shift.
So if you start at 08:00 Monday you should start a weekly rest period no later than 08:00 Sunday.

You can have a reduced weekly rest of no less than 24 hours every other week.
In any two consecutive weeks you must have either 2 full 45 hour weekly rest periods, or, one 45 hour weekly rest period and one reduced weekly rest period.
In other words you must have a full weekly rest at least every second week.

If you have a reduced weekly rest the reduction should be paid back in one block by the end of the third week following the week in which you had a reduced weekly rest
The payback should be added onto a rest period of no less than 9 hours.

Talulah:
WTD must be complied with also and requires no more driving/other work than 48 hours per week averaged over 17 weeks, and definately no week more than 60 hours.

POA/Break time not included in the total working time.

Mustn’t do more than 6 hours of OW without a break, must have 30 mins break (in at least 15 min segments) if 6 - 9 hour day, or 45 mins if over 9 hour work. Presumably this can be the same as driving break, i.e. if driving for 4.5 hours and OW for 6.5 hours in any day, only need 45 min break total?

Correct, but for the WTD driving doesn’t really come into it, it’s just work time that counts, work time includes driving and other work.

The 17 week reference period can be changed to 26 weeks.
The 6 hour rule requires a break of no less than 15 minutes.
As you say the driving breaks count for the WTD breaks and vice versa, but remember that whilst the WTD breaks can be taken in 15 minute segments the driving break can’t.

Talulah:
Faced with the prospect of trying to make up maximum hours taking work from 3 or 4 different agencies, i’m starting to get nervous about this!

Then spend some time living as well as working :wink:

Post back if you need any more help and good luck

5

ROG:
PS - I think holidays count for 8 hours a day for WTD purposes and 40 hours if a whole week is taken but not too sure on this

Nearly ROG :wink:

If a full weeks statutory holiday is taken form Monday to Sunday then you should calculate it as 48 hours for the WTD.

For individual days or a week that doesn’t fall Monday to Sunday (say you had Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Monday and Tuesday) then 8 hours per day should be calculated.

It’s not really this simple but for most people this will work satisfactorily.

None statutory holiday doesn’t need to be counted and can be used to lower the average.

6

Drivers hours laws effective from April 11th 2007.
Firstly, remember that unlike the previous Regulations, if your journey is partly off road eg, driving in a
quarry, then this time will be counted as well as your on road driving.
Under these Regulations you can drive for a maximum of 41/2 hours, and then you must take a break of
not less than 45 minutes, unless you begin a rest period. During the break you must not drive or do any
other work. After the break you can continue driving.

Daily Rest Period > 4.5 Driving <> 45 Minute break <> 4.5 Driving <> Daily Rest Period

You can split the break and distribute it throughout the driving period. If you do this, the first portion of the
break must be at least 15 minutes and the second at least 30 minutes. The breaks must be taken so that
you never exceed the 41/2 hour driving limit. The illustration shows how this may be done;

Daily Rest Period > 2.15 Driving <> 15 Minutes break <> 2.15 Driving <> 30 Minutes break <> 4.5 Hours Driving <> Daily Rest Period

During the ‘daily driving period,’ you can normally drive for 9 hours. Twice in the fixed week (00:00
Monday to 24:00 Sunday) the daily driving period may be extended to a maximum of 10 hours;

Daily Rest Period <> 4.5 Driving <> 45 Minute break <> 4.5 Driving <> 45 Minute break <> 1 Hour Driving <> Daily Rest Period

NEW REQUIREMENT: In a fixed week the total driving may not exceed 56 hours;

(6 Days) Mon 00.00 > 9 + 10 + 9 + 10 + 9 + 9 < Sun 23.59 = 56 Hours

< 2 Weeks 90 Hours Maximum >
Week 1 <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <>Week 2 <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> Week 3
34----------------------------------------56 ------------------------------------------34
---------------------------------------------< 2 Weeks 90 Hours Maximum >
Daily Rest
Within 24 hours of ending a daily or weekly rest period, a driver must have taken a new daily rest period.
At first reading this sounds complicated, but consider the example below, where a driver ends their
weekly rest period at 06:00am on Monday morning. To comply with the regulation, the driver must have
taken a new daily rest period by 06:00 am Tuesday;

Monday 06.00 <> Work and Driving <> 45 Break <> Work and Driving <> 11 Hours Rest <> Tuesday 06.00

Daily Rest periods are 11 hours.at least
Reduced Rest Periods are 9 hours at least

There is no requirement to take ‘compensated rest’ under these regulations for reduced daily rest
periods. Between any two weekly rest periods a driver may have, at most, 3 reduced daily rest periods.

Daily rest may be split into two parts and distributed throughout the working day; the first period must be
at least 3 hours and the second at least 9 hours;

This split rest is not a reduced rest

Where the vehicle is transported by ferry or train, the rest requirements can be varied;

  • A regular daily rest period may be interrupted no more than twice; this would allow a vehicle to drive
    onto a ferry and off at the end of the sea crossing (depending upon the length of the crossing).
  • The total interruption of the rest period must be no more than 1 hour.
  • A bunk or couchette must be available during the rest period;

Driving and Duty <> Embark 20 minutes <> Ferry crossing <> Disembark 35 Minutes <> Driving and Duty
< -------------------------------------------------24 Hours -------------------------------------------------->

Either a regular or a reduced daily rest period may be extended to become a weekly rest period.
Weekly rest periods must begin no later than the end of the sixth 24 hour period from the end of the
previous weekly rest. Again this sentence looks complicated, in reality, the application is straightforward;
in the example below, the weekly rest period ends at 08:00am Monday morning, therefore the next weekly
rest period must begin no later than 08:00am Sunday.

Weekly Rest. < 0800 Monday > Six Days < 0800 Sunday > Weekly Rest

Regular weekly rest; At least 45 hours.
Reduced weekly rest; less than 45 hours but at least 24 hours.

Weekly rest can begin in one week and end in the next and can be attached to either week;

In any two weeks a driver must take either;

  • Two regular weekly rest periods, or
  • One regular weekly rest period and one reduced weekly rest
    If a reduced weekly rest period is taken, an equivalent amount of rest to the reduction must be ‘paid back.’
    This compensated rest must be taken en bloc, attached to a rest period of at least 9 hours and must be
    completed before the end of the third week following the week the reduction occurred in;

Daily rest periods and reduced weekly rest periods may be taken in a vehicle away from base, if the driver
chooses. The vehicle must be fitted with suitable sleeping facilities for each driver and must be stationary.

Sometimes just a simplified view of the rules are easier to understand. The full booklet is available here.

vosa.gov.uk/vosacorp/reposit … 0Hours.pdf

Hope this helps you.

7

Thanks guys, that does make it a bit clearer…!!!

Cheers

:smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

8

Those leaflets should be handed out by vosa. I have tried all ways to print it off but it doesnt seem to want to play.

Im sure they will be available at test stations.

9

Wheel Nut said;

Those leaflets should be handed out by vosa. I have tried all ways to print it off but it doesnt seem to want to play.

Im sure they will be available at test stations.

They are. Ring your local test station or area office and ask, they’ll post one to you. Make sure you specify whether you want HGV or PSV booklet. Although the EU hours are now the same, AETR and Domestic differ between HGV and PSV.