Driver's hours question - what do you suggest

ASK THE EXPERTS SAFETY, LAW AND WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE FORUM (INTE
1

Hi,

I got to be at a trailer 7am Monday, but the lorry is at a different location. The trailer is 16 miles in one direction and the lorry is 14 miles in the other direction.

I have two options. I could drive my car to the lorry on a Sunday and collect the lorry. Driving it back home would take up 25 mins driving time on that day. On the Monday I then have say about 40 mins driving time to get to the trailer, then I’ll be doing a few drops and hopefully finish around 4pm.

Second option is to get up at 5.30am and drive the car to collect the lorry around 6am. Then spend an hour getting to the trailer and the rest as above.

Question is, by picking the lorry up on a Sunday am I shooting myself in the foot by driving on that day or would it have no real effect on the what I could do the rest of the week, or does it count as a completely different week?

2

What time did you finish work this week?

How much weekly rest did you have last week?

When are you expecting to finish work this week, day and time?

Can’t really say how it will impact on your hours for the coming week without the answers to the above.

Driving on Sunday will count as a different week for the purpose of total driving hours for the week but it will have an effect on when you can work until this week.

3

  1. Ok, sat on my arse all week. Done no work.

  2. Loads of time in duvet heaven.

  3. Not a clue, but a might be going UK Tues. I’m guess I’ll be expected to make the most of my hours.

What I’m concerned with is in doing this short move of vehicle on Sunday evening, it will impact on me at the end of the week should I need it the time. I’m thinking that I can only do so many days in the week and then I’m losing a day at the end.

4

macplaxton:

  1. Ok, sat on my arse all week. Done no work.

  2. Loads of time in duvet heaven.

  3. Not a clue, but a might be going UK Tues.

What I’m concerned with is in doing this short move of vehicle on Sunday evening, it will impact on me at the end of the week should I need it the time. I’m thinking that I can only do so many days in the week and then I’m losing a day at the end.

Yep, it could have a big impact on the end of the week. In simple terms it is the difference between being able to work next Saturday to get back home or having to finish on Friday. Given that you may need the time to get home I don’t think it is worth doing the short drive on Sunday.

5

Thanks for that. The last thing I want to do is come a cropper on hours. I’ve got a UK licence and I’ll be on Irish plates.

The possibility of a trip of Rosslare / Pembroke / Cardiff / Worcs / Leics / Holyhead / Dublin (the bit to Holyhead isn’t that appealing) along with potentially another UK trip means I don’t want to waste days or hours that can be avoided.

6

I’ll be heading for Holyhead to cross to Dublin myself on Thursday. I quite enjoy the drive to Holyhead, decent road and some good views.

7

I’ll be on Irish plates

Are they the ‘exempt and go faster’ plates :question: :question:

No offence meant to most of you Irish truckers, it’s just that I’ve seen a lot of Irish plated lorries recently going much faster then others :exclamation: :open_mouth: :wink:

8

Done some bedtime reading (GV262) And bearing in mind the rest position above.

Monday is doing a few drops round Dublin. Given that I’ll have to start turning the wheels at say 6am. Expect to be finished around 4pm. I’m getting signals about Rosslare that night, but I’m not sure of the timings.

The way I’ve read it, it’s game over for the day no later than 7pm but I could this extend 9pm? (but if I take reduced daily of 9, I take it I have to stick the 2 hours on at the end of the week?)

Lets say I could do that make port for 8.30pm. Then I could make 2 moves no longer than an hour to get on and off the ferry. I could get going again at the earliest Tuesday 8.30am? (two 30 moves and 11 rest)

GV262 is not that clear to me about ferries, If I was taking one during a daily rest of say 9-11 hours. Tacho on break? If I was taking one during daily work POA?

Rog, If you’ve seen my post on my assessment, you’ll have noticed that I found at least 1 Irish truck with that doesn’t go over 85km/h :open_mouth::lol:

Coffeeholic, I’ve done a lot of mileage to everywhere round the UK from London / High Wycombe as a courier in a past life, but I’ve only been to Wales twice. Once to Denbigh and once to Cardiff. My sea-legs aren’t too bad done only a couple of long crossings - Dover - Calais - Dunkerque - Dover and Birkenhead - Dublin one way. The rest were much shorter, including years and years ago Renfrew - Yoker! :laughing:

9

The way I’ve read it, it’s game over for the day no later than 7pm but I could this extend 9pm? (but if I take reduced daily of 9, I take it I have to stick the 2 hours on at the end of the week?)

There is no requirement to ‘make up’ reduced daily rest nowadays

10

macplaxton:
Monday is doing a few drops round Dublin. Given that I’ll have to start turning the wheels at say 6am. Expect to be finished around 4pm. I’m getting signals about Rosslare that night, but I’m not sure of the timings.

The way I’ve read it, it’s game over for the day no later than 7pm but I could this extend 9pm?

Correct

macplaxton:
(but if I take reduced daily of 9, I take it I have to stick the 2 hours on at the end of the week?)

No, see ROG’s reply above.

macplaxton:
Lets say I could do that make port for 8.30pm. Then I could make 2 moves no longer than an hour to get on and off the ferry. I could get going again at the earliest Tuesday 8.30am? (two 30 moves and 11 rest)

No, it doesn’t work that way. Have another read of the section on daily rest as you haven’t quite grasped it. You have correctly worked out you cannot work past 19:00 in order to take an 11 hour daily rest or past 21:00 if you are taking a reduced daily rest of 9 hours but then you have got confused. If you got to the port at 20:30 and commenced a daily rest period you would at most be having 9.5 hours rest, regardless of how long it is before you resume work on Tuesday. This is because the rest period must all be taken within the 24 hour period which commenced when you resumed work after a daily or weekly rest, in your case 06:00 Monday. This means, as you correctly worked out above, to take an 11 hour daily rest you cannot work past 19:00, if you do work past 19:00 there are less than 11 hours before the end of your 24 hour period at 06:00 Tuesday. You can only use the interrupted rest option with a full daily rest period of 11 hours, not with a reduced rest of between 9 and 11 hours and the time for the movements is in addition to this. The only way you could do it would be to arrive at the port by around 18:30 and commence your rest period. This leaves 11.5 hours until the end of your 24 hour period at 06:00 Tuesday and gives you 11 hours of rest and 30 minutes for the two movements. Hopefully 30 minutes would be enough, driving on the ferry is usually only 2 or 3 minutes and if you can get parked up quickly when you disembark the remaining 27 -28 minutes should suffice. You could then commence driving at 06:00 Tuesday.

It is very important to remember the fact the daily rest must fall within the 24 hour period as many drivers get caught out on reducing more than 3 times per week this way.

Example 1.

Monday;

06:00 - 21:00 work

Rest

Resume work 06:00 Tuesday

9 hours rest taken and is one of the three allowed daily rest reductions between weekly rest periods.

Example 2.

06:00 - 21:00 work

Rest

Resume work 08:00 Tuesday

11 hours rest taken but only 9 of them fell within the 24 hour period 06:00 Monday until 06:00 Tuesday so this is also one of the three allowed daily rest reductions between weekly rest periods.

In example 2 the fact you were parked for 11 hours doesn’t matter and this will count as only 9 hours daily rest for the tacho regulations.

macplaxton:
GV262 is not that clear to me about ferries, If I was taking one during a daily rest of say 9-11 hours. Tacho on break? If I was taking one during daily work POA?

You’ve lost me here. :smiley: :smiley: Not sure what you mean by taking one during rest of 9-11 hours and taking one during work POA.

When I go to Dublin I start work at either 05:00 or 05:30 and usually arrive in Holyhead at between 12:00 and 13:00. Boarding usually commences around 13:30 and between my arrival time in Holyhead and boarding I put the tacho on Break. I then drive on board and put it back on Break, I don’t use POA as a rule but I couldn’t anyway in this situation as I am not able to return to my workstation due to the vehicle decks being out of bounds during the crossing, so it has to be break. I then disembark around 18:00 and do a further 60 -90 minutes work before starting my daily rest period. I don’t select ferry rest for the break period on board as I am not using the interrupted rest option. I am however using the split daily rest option - split into 2 parts with the first at least 3 hours and the second at least 9 - because in the weeks we do three return trips it is the only way to stay legal due to us having less than 11 hours rest each night.

11

macplaxton wrote:

GV262 is not that clear to me about ferries, If I was taking one during a daily rest of say 9-11 hours. Tacho on break? If I was taking one during daily work POA?

You’ve lost me here. Not sure what you mean by taking one during rest of 9-11 hours and taking one during work POA.

Does he mean using a split daily rest of… let me think what it is now… hmm… 9 plus 3 and using the 3 hour during the day instead of a POA stop :question: :question:

12

Coffeeholic:

macplaxton:
Lets say I could do that make port for 8.30pm. Then I could make 2 moves no longer than an hour to get on and off the ferry. I could get going again at the earliest Tuesday 8.30am? (two 30 moves and 11 rest)

No, it doesn’t work that way…

Ah, right so I’ve now grasped 24 consecutive hours from starting gives me the daily period. And I can only do an interruppted with a full 11 rest. So, In short if could reach port by 1830, I could catch the ferry any after that if I only move once on and move off. So (R=rest), (M=movement)

R1 + M1 + R2(crossing) + M2 + R3.

R1+R2+R3 must be minimum 11hrs.
M1+M2 must be no more that 1hr and also be no more than the driving time or work time I have left for the day.

Both rest examples are clear to me now, thanks.

Coffeeholic:
I am however using the split daily rest option - split into 2 parts with the first at least 3 hours and the second at least 9 - because in the weeks we do three return trips it is the only way to stay legal due to us having less than 11 hours rest each night.

So:

A full 11hrs = regular daily rest.
A split 3hrs (or less) + a 9hrs (or more) = 12hrs = regular daily rest.
A below 11hr but above 9hrs is reduced and only 3 x “week” and no compo.

Many thanks, it’s starting to gel now :slight_smile:

13

macplaxton:
Ah, right so I’ve now grasped 24 consecutive hours from starting gives me the daily period. And I can only do an interruppted with a full 11 rest. So, In short if could reach port by 1830, I could catch the ferry any after that if I only move once on and move off. So (R=rest), (M=movement)

R1 + M1 + R2(crossing) + M2 + R3.

R1+R2+R3 must be minimum 11hrs.

Correct, and it must not go beymd the 24 hour period which began when you started work that day.

macplaxton:
M1+M2 must be no more that 1hr and also be no more than the driving time or work time I have left for the day.

Correct

macplaxton:

Coffeeholic:
I am however using the split daily rest option - split into 2 parts with the first at least 3 hours and the second at least 9 - because in the weeks we do three return trips it is the only way to stay legal due to us having less than 11 hours rest each night.

So:

A full 11hrs = regular daily rest.

Correct

macplaxton:
A split 3hrs (or less) + a 9hrs (or more) = 12hrs = regular daily rest.

3 hours or more, not less. Two parts, the first at least 3 hours and the second at least 9. Again both parts of this rest must be taken within the 24 hour period which started when you resumed work that day.

Example 1.

06:00 - 12:00 Various periods of work, driving, POA and break

12:00 - 15:00 Rest of 3 hours

15:00 - 21:00 Various periods of work, driving, POA and break

21:00 - 06:00 Rest of 9 hours.

Example 2.

05:00 - 13:30 Various periods of work, driving, POA and break

13:30 - 17:15 Rest of 3 hours 45 minutes

17:15 - 19:00 Work and driving.

19:00 - 05:00 Rest of 10 hours.

Example 2 is close to my day when I travel to Dublin. No limit to the number of times you can do this between weekly rest periods.

macplaxton:
A below 11hr but above 9hrs is reduced and only 3 x “week” and no compo.

Not 3 times per week, 3 times between weekly rest periods. If you took your weekly rest midweek you could take 6 reductions in the fixed week. No compensation required for reduced daily rest periods since April 11 2007.

Example.

Resume work after weekly rest period

Monday - 06:00 - 21:00 15 hour shift, 9 hour reduced rest.

Tuesday - 06:00 - 21:00 15 hour shift, 9 hour reduced rest.

Wednesday - 06:00 - 20:00 14 hour shift, 10 hour reduced rest extended into a weekly rest period.

Reduced weekly rest period of 34 hours 20:00 Wednesday - 06:00 Friday.

Friday - 06:00 - 21:00 15 hour shift, 9 hour reduced rest.

Saturday - 06:00 - 19:30 13.5 hour shift, 10.5 hour reduced rest.

Sunday - 06:00 - 20:30 14.5 hour shift, 9.5 hour reduced rest.

No more reductions available until completion of next weekly rest period.

14

ROG:
macplaxton wrote:

GV262 is not that clear to me about ferries, If I was taking one during a daily rest of say 9-11 hours. Tacho on break? If I was taking one during daily work POA?

You’ve lost me here. Not sure what you mean by taking one during rest of 9-11 hours and taking one during work POA.

Does he mean using a split daily rest of… let me think what it is now… hmm… 9 plus 3 and using the 3 hour during the day instead of a POA stop :question: :question:

I think I have worked out he was asking what the mode switch would be set to while on a ferry and was asking if it would be on rest while using the interrupted rest option and POA if just taking it during the day. Yes to the first one but not strictly POA for the second as vehicle decks are out of bounds during the crossing so you are not able to return to your workstation at any time. Break for both options in my opinion.

15

Cheers Coffeeholic for keeping me straight on the vagueness of my use of the word “week”

Makes sense about the mode on the ferry.

So if I was driving around local tomorrow, should I just stick it on “Other Work” assuming that the tacho will record driving automatically? Then stick it on “Break” when I’m resting and free to do as I please and “POA” for when I’m doing nowt coming under “Other Work” but can’t wander off. If I don’t know how long I’m going to be waiting it stays on “Other Work”.

Lets say I do come over to the UK later in the week, would it be advisable to carry an attestation chit to explain to the VOSA man why I don’t have a full set of charts?

16

macplaxton:
Cheers Coffeeholic for keeping me straight on the vagueness of my use of the word “week”

I hope you know I wasn’t just being pedantic for the sake of it, it is an important distinction and can lead to confusion if the term is used incorrectly.
S

macplaxton:
o if I was driving around local tomorrow, should I just stick it on “Other Work” assuming that the tacho will record driving automatically? Then stick it on “Break” when I’m resting and free to do as I please and “POA” for when I’m doing nowt coming under “Other Work” but can’t wander off. If I don’t know how long I’m going to be waiting it stays on “Other Work”.

That’s the exact way to do it.

macplaxton:
Lets say I do come over to the UK later in the week, would it be advisable to carry an attestation chit to explain to the VOSA man why I don’t have a full set of charts?

Can’t hurt.

17

Understand that you weren’t being pedantic, just being concise.

Cheers. Thank you.