Having seen a number of comments on this subject, I am interested to find out what Trainee drivers feel regarding the age of the vehicles we use(yes I am a trainer) 
.
Did you train in a new vehicle or one that was maybe 15 years old?? - did it make a difference to you or the result you achieved??
Unfortunately not every training company can or has brand new vehicles( nice logos by the way Peter 
) but how did it effect your training? - if indeed it did.
I open the floodgates 
Hi. Happy New Year and thanks for the kind comments. Iāve copied this from another thread:
Just want to take the opportunity to clear up the ānew lorryā thing. Iād like to give my reasons for running new trucks:
I am not a mechanic - I sleep better with new trucks on the yard
Image - clean and smart
Pleasant learning environment for candidate
Pleasant working environment for instructor (good qualified instructors are not 2 a penny - so we look after them)
Local Iveco dealership open 24/7
Repairs carried out overnight so no disruption to training programme
Maximum utilitisation of vehicles due to above
Fuel economy
Ease of driving - no fishing for gears etc
Uniformity between vehicles - any unlikely swap of vehicle is not traumatic
Predictable operating costs
Companies are happy that their staff will be happy when allocated a new vehicle
Examiners are impressed by a clean, smart vehicle
Protects reputationWe have visitors all the time who have failed tests elsewhere. When they drive these vehicles they normally pass the comment āI wish Iād come here to start withā. This is often followed by āXYZ trainer was Ā£100 cheaper which is why I went to themā. Itās clear that some vehicles used for training are unfit and unsuitable. They have been āto the moon and backā and the gear selectors are the originals! Thus the problems selecting gears. A trainer told me recently that he, himself, struggled to change gear with his truck but - at the end of the day - he made more money from retests. Shame on him! I mention gears as thatās a very common one - but thereās plenty of other topics.
Now the really important bit. There are very good trainers out there using trucks of assorted ages. Provided their trucks are well maintained and kept clean, our trucks are probably no better.
Itās all part of the package: good truck, good instructor, good admin, good pass rate, fair fees.
So although I thank those who have spoken out in favour of our trucks, letās keep it fair and in perspective. Itās the whole package that counts.
(Finally, though, Iām still extremely proud of my fleet!!)
Pete Peter Smythe
DSA Reg LGV Instructor
MANSFIELD, Notts
truckdrivertraining.co.uk
KEEPING IT SIMPLE!
THE ONLY DSA ACCREDITED LGV TRAINING CENTRE IN NOTTS
HOME OF THE MONEY BACK GUARANTEED PASS - TRY IT AND SEEPeter Smythe
SENIOR MEMBERPosts: 1536
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:04 pm
Private messageE-mail Top
Happy New Year to you Peter and best wishes and good luck for 2012
I couldnāt agree with you more about the unfit/unsuitable comment Peter - for example how would a trainee feel about driving a training vehicle that doesnāt have a drivers seat beltā ā ?
Much the same as not being able to change gear, indicators not working from time to time and then stopping all together on test, windows that donāt open, accelerator pedal that wobbles under your foot, tacho head that wont open, heaters not working - including demister, extreme engine noise, tyres on the limit, brakes pulling to one side.
BTW, all these have been cited within the last month from dissatisfied trainees. So itās alarmingly common. Iāve done my bit to try and redress the balance. I repeat itās not neccāy to buy new. Just buy good and then look after it.
Trainers need to understand that the truck is the tool that earns their bread and butter. I recall other local trainers running ābangersā and having great holidays whilst I was saving like mad to get a new truck (donāt believe in HP) and doing modest B+B holidays. But now most of those trainers are defunct and I continue to invest in the best possible equipment for the reasons Iāve already given.
Pete
When I did my Cat C this was not a new vehicle although not that old I found it was quite adequate for the job the gears went in easy as it was well maintained
When I did my CE at the same place was just over 2 years ago they had a 52 MAN 410 TGA again well maintained gears went in nice & easy not a problem with any of the vehicles
I think it is the attitude of the instructor & how well the pupil responds to the instructor
No disrespect to my instructor but he was 1 trick pony as they say ( he did have quite a good pass rate with some of the guys ) but as some of the trainers know it is not the same with a woman as with a man sometimes you have to change tack
So in my opinion it would be mainly down to the instructor as long as the vehicle was well maintained looked after etc then it should not be a problem as long as the above are addressed
I agree. A brand new truck with a rubbish instructor may as well be scrapped. Conversely, the best instructor in the world would struggle with a poorly maintained truck.
As I put in my quote, itās all part of the package.
Pete
I have documented my Cat C training on here also my experience with Cat CE
To me the important thing would be is the vehicles fit for the job in hand can the instructor get the best out of me & bring me to ātestā standard in the giving time
Not interested in the new fancy lorry the nice web site etc but the most important thing is ME being brought to test standard with as little fuss as poss the quickest easiest way as in real life you may not always get the new flash vehicle in the fleet
Peter Smythe:
I agree. A brand new truck with a rubbish instructor may as well be scrapped. Conversely, the best instructor in the world would struggle with a poorly maintained truck.As I put in my quote, itās all part of the package.
Pete
^^^ this totally agree & the instructor being able to get the best out of the candidate
animal:
I have documented my Cat C training on here also my experience with Cat CETo me the important thing would be is the vehicles fit for the job in hand can the instructor get the best out of me & bring me to ātestā standard in the giving time
Not interested in the new fancy lorry the nice web site etc but the most important thing is ME being brought to test standard with as little fuss as poss the quickest easiest way as in real life you may not always get the new flash vehicle in the fleet
You have summed it up in a short but very very good post - it doesnāt matter how good a workmans tool is if they canāt do the job well - but what if the Instructor is brilliant but the vehicle is so poor it make training and test almost impossibleā ā ? 
We have a lot of experience in this area. I believe we were the first company that I know of to buy brand new trucks from Volvo in 1988. We bought 3 Volvo FL6 trucks, two class ones and one class two. Wonderful little trucks for training, and buying new trucks for training was unheard of at the time.
Why did we buy new trucks? For the exact same reasons we still do it today. No used vehicle will do for driver training, the wheelbase is too long, the cab will be wrong spec (no air con, heated seats, air seats) and trucks are work tools, all used trucks have been hammered to some degree.
One of the original volvoās we bought in 1992 lasted 15 years on our fleet, 4 clutches, 3 exhausts, original brakes, no engine or gearbox repairs and a few minor repairs. It was a credit to Volvo and our fully in house maintenance program. Unlike other driving schools we donāt send our vehicles to the dealers because we are fully trained in general mechanical repairs, only use dealers for electrical issues.
So, I donāt exactly think the right truck is simply a good looked after example. It has to be the right truck for the job, a good driving school truck is somewhat different to a haulage spec truck. This is our spec for class C;
Good cab with plenty of windows for adequate instructor observation.
Good mirrors for the instructor.
Comfortable seats, air suspended both sides, would never allow a bench seat on our fleet.
Air con for the summer.
Low axle ratio to get rid of needing low range gears for anything except setting off from stationary.
5 metre wheel base to make getting around junctions ten times easier than a 6.5m wheelbase truck.
And of course other good features considered such as easy of use of controls and cab access.
One of the reasons most driving schools buy new trucks today really isnāt for the customer benefit. There are two reasons, customers expect a decent truck and old trucks cost a fortune to run. I know what it costs to get a 10 year old Volvo FM12 through the MOT, I just did it for around Ā£3000. At any moment it may
need new selector rings on say 1/5th gear, and bang there goes another Ā£4000 on a recon gearbox. The accountants donāt like undulating costs, so buy a new truck, put it on credit, add in maintenance contract and get good mpg - thatās how itās done. Keep the vehicle for 10 years from new, it wonāt wear out that much, not unless you buy an Iveco, and you will get your money back 100 times over.
So if was a trainee, I would look for the right truck, not just at the number plate!
As a side note, a good instructor can get just about anyone to drive a tired old truck well, itās just we donāt have enough time. So our trucks have to perform faultlessly, or the trainees will fail the test much more frequently.
Also, driving school trucks are not subject to 6/8 weekly inspections. So many old trucks used by driving schools are given only enough maintenance to scrape through an MOT once every 12 months.
Hopefully I made a few valid points that most new trucks drivers didnāt realise.
Tockwith Training, providing quality driver instruction since 1971
See the picture below, shows the old Volvo mentioned above that just kept going and going. I expect itās still trundling through Africa now! It was a perfect driving school truck in the 1990ās
Tockwith Training, providing quality driver instruction since 1971
I was fortunate when I did my class one as I took it in a 3 month old Mercedes Benz. The only class three vehicle was a Ford D series. This was with the RTITB. Fortunately I had already passed my class three with United Carriers in a Bedford almost identical to the one I was driving at work.
I am sure a new vehicle for training is a good idea as long as the cost is still reasonable
I agree with Tockwith. (Must add that I bought the first new one in 1987 - but a Leyland, not a Volvo!). Itās well known that I have a particular spec for driver training which, to a great extent, follows Tockwith. eg correct diff, short wheelbase (4.55 metres). The bottom line for both of us, as I see it, is the recognition that the trainee and trainer should have the best equipment conjusive to a test pass. We differ on some issues. I prefer Iveco - theyāre less expensive than Volvo to purchase and run - but they donāt wear as well so we change them at 5 years max. At this point theyāve done around 150,000kms and are perfect. We have other trainers fighting over them - almost literally!
The comment regarding a good trainer being able to train in a ātired old truckā is absolutely correct as is the observation that there isnāt time to do it. There is a general assumption that a week is long enough so the vehicle has to be up to scratch otherwise the probability of a pass gets less and less. As Tockwith said, the vehicle has to perform faultlessly.
In common with some other good trainers, I believe Iāve done everything possible to ensure a first class training experience. Whilst this obviously includes the trucks, there are many other factors that are not so obvious but are vitally important. eg. strong admin, high staff morale, premises with facilities etc etc.
Pete
I trained in a T reg for rigid and P reg for artic passed both first time. The lorrys were fit for purpose and drove really well. To me its all about the instructor.
Phil
I trained in a T reg for rigid and P reg for artic passed both first time. The lorrys were fit for purpose and drove really well. To me its all about the instructor.
And thatās great. I think we accept that the age, in itself, isnāt the issue. Itās more to do with suitability and itās standard of maintainence. Then add a good instructor and jobās a goodāun.
I just get uptight when folk are presented with a totally unsuitable truck with things that dont work properly. Then add a poor instructor and the jobās certainly not a goodāun!
Iāve been honest and given the reasons I choose to run new vehicles. Pete
I agree with porky and animal , the instructor is the most important for me , having an instructor who is happy in his job comes across when your training and makes a hell of a difference but you do need decent equipment to pass in a week , on agency work I have driven some bone shakers but then you have the time to iron out the quirks of a lorry to drive it , no pressure of learning your road skills so a vehicle that is easy to drive and in good nick would be the number 2 on list for taking lessons , this just inforces the thing about going to see the company before committing if your happy with the set up and have seen the vehicles , mind you saying that i did that and just thought all trainers were there to get you to pass the test and needed to be harsh when training to get you through the test, how wrong , trainers dont need to be harsh just good at explaining and i found that out the hard way and as your paying them a lot of money to train you , you have to be comfortable with your trainer otherwise you wont learn a thing !!
Jen x
Jennie:
I agree with porky and animal , the instructor is the most important for me , having an instructor who is happy in his job comes across when your training and makes a hell of a difference but you do need decent equipment to pass in a week , on agency work I have driven some bone shakers but then you have the time to iron out the quirks of a lorry to drive it , no pressure of learning your road skills so a vehicle that is easy to drive and in good nick would be the number 2 on list for taking lessons , this just inforces the thing about going to see the company before committing if your happy with the set up and have seen the vehicles , mind you saying that i did that and just thought all trainers were there to get you to pass the test and needed to be harsh when training to get you through the test, how wrong , trainers dont need to be harsh just good at explaining and i found that out the hard way and as your paying them a lot of money to train you , you have to be comfortable with your trainer otherwise you wont learn a thing !!Jen x
Yep I have learnt the hard way as well but with 1st provider I was with I did like the set up like you Jenni but it was down to the instructor
I have now been to all 4 of the providers in my area had assessment drives with all & when time is right I will go back to 1 og them & pay my money
There is 1 training provider in the area that buys a new vehicle every 3-4 years runs Scanias ( well he is Irish what would you expect )
But as I have said the ll have good reputations good pass rate it come down to personal choice
chevmac:
animal:
I have documented my Cat C training on here also my experience with Cat CETo me the important thing would be is the vehicles fit for the job in hand can the instructor get the best out of me & bring me to ātestā standard in the giving time
Not interested in the new fancy lorry the nice web site etc but the most important thing is ME being brought to test standard with as little fuss as poss the quickest easiest way as in real life you may not always get the new flash vehicle in the fleet
You have summed it up in a short but very very good post
Sorry really cant answer that as not came across it yet
The 1ās in this area although different ages of vehicle they all have good reputations & pass rate it comes down to personal choice
The 1ās in this area although different ages of vehicle they all have good reputations & pass rate
I think this is the bottom line on this one. They wouldnāt have gained and kept good reputations if the vehicles werenāt up to scratch. Driver training is an unusual beast. It isnāt a āproductā that comes in a box for Ā£xās. It has many component parts and itās becoming very clear from this thread that the instructor is rated as the most important. To a very great extent, I agree.
But, as Iāve said previously, I have my own reasons for running new vehicles with first class, fully qualified and DSA reg instructors. The combination is excellent and I donāt plan to change it anytime soon!
Similarly, there are extremely good but unqualified instructors who are possibly working in trucks 10 years old that are extremely well looked after. Nothing much wrong with that combination either.
Trainers are running businesses. Training is a personal service that has to be tailored to each personsā requirements. Itās very important to offer that level of service and not be ashamed of making a small profit. Failure to do so means the closure of the business. And there is no winner then. For myself, I feel I can accomplish the above most efficiently by running new vehicles.
Candidates are always advised to go, look at the set up. If they see a scruffy, tatty truck and are greeted by an equally scruffy ātrainerā then they should have the intelligence to move on = quickly. I am very proud of our offering and I get a kick out of showing people around - happy in the knowledge that there is no comparison locally.
Pete
when i did my class c i was in a w reg erf ec11 (i think) with a huge box on the back. it had this huge steering wheel, it was a pig to change gear and reverse was a nightmare to get intoā¦saying that i passed first time because i had a good instructor
for my c+e i was in a 53 plate volvo fh, that was decent, well looked after aswell.