driver shortage

[ovlov_jay]

shep532:
I posted a job opportunity on here yesterday after a local company rang me in desperation because they can’t get drivers. If you didn’t see the post it was £8 an hour. he seemed to think I was crazy when I mentioned he’d do better paying ore and said something like “If you saw the state of some of these drivers you’d know why I only pay £8”.

6 of one, half a dozen of the other. If he paid more money, he’d attract a better class of driver. As I said earlier, it’s the rates that dictate the wage, but if a profitable operator is paying bread line and can afford more, he deserves all the crap he gets

[peirre]

Winseer:
I suggest that any YOUNG driver right now with no wife and kids and no debt - is a happy man.

FTFY

[conor]

Harry Monk:

Minger:
Have said before,I am earning £7.80 an hour nights

That is absolutely appalling.

And to give you an indication of how appalling it is my lad who is 21 and just passed his HGV test last week started his first job driving this week doing Class 2 for £8/hr on days doing pallet network deliveries for a company in East Yorks with a wage rise once he’s done a couple of months.

[conor]

Rjan:
I think even Bob Cratchett only worked 12 hours in a fictionalised account of Victorian squalor, and that was in daylight.

He did because the Factories Act limited people to a maximum 12hr working day back in the lat 1800s. The fact that a law was brought in under Queen Victoria’s reign limiting the working day to less than we can and do do now is a damning indictment of our industry if there ever was one needed.

[f-reds]

peirre:

Winseer:
I suggest that any YOUNG driver right now with no wife and kids and no debt - is a happy man.

FTFY

I’m 30, got missus of 10 years, a mortgage, a car, and no sprogs, manage 2 holidays a year, and a night out each weekend.

Do I wish I had more money? Who doesn’t?

Would I be any better off? I doubt it, people have a funny way of living up to their means…

Am I happy? Bet your ■■■ I am…

I generally find that people just expect a bit too much from life in general, rather than going out and sorting themselves and their world out!

[eddie_snax]

Carryfast:

eddie snax:
if drivers were to get motivated, then they would add to the profitability of the firm, and that is where a wage increase would come from.

Define ‘motivated’ and the scope of any lack of ‘motivation’ and where that ‘motivation’ could be supposedly improved.

.

I cant define what I mean, because if I could I would be a journalist or Uni lecturer etc. But I know what it is and isn’t when I see it, and so does every one else, well apart from you apparently.

Working smarter isn’t about munching more miles, its about doing those miles more efficiently, back of a bit earlier when heading to a junction to save fuel, don’t overtake a slowly accelerating truck that’s pulling away from a junction, when its only come flashing past you 2 miles earlier, and will thrash past you 2 miles up the road if you do overtake it, this will save fuel, switch of the engine whilst coupling/uncoupling trailers. don’t run the engine for 15-20 minutes in the morning to warm it up, fuel saving, don’t take the trailer ploughing over kerbs corners and junctions to save tyre wheels and suspension damage, same applies to the tractor, but trailers tend to get this type of abuse. Be aware of low hanging trees and gutters on the side of warehouses and low doors on loading bays, we ve all seen these get hit causing damage to the obstacle and the trailer, someone often your boss will have to pick up the tab for that. Replace bulbs and top up window washer bottle, so that the workshops don’t have to add that cost to the service. Its just about doing stuff, that on the face of it, is what a professional driver should do, but some just shrug the shoulders and don’t give a

[mrginge]

shep532:
he seemed to think I was crazy when I mentioned he’d do better paying ore and said something like “If you saw the state of some of these drivers you’d know why I only pay £8”.

I’m guessing you told him to only expect the worst for £8.

[carryfast]

eddie snax:

Carryfast:

eddie snax:
if drivers were to get motivated, then they would add to the profitability of the firm, and that is where a wage increase would come from.

Define ‘motivated’ and the scope of any lack of ‘motivation’ and where that ‘motivation’ could be supposedly improved.

.

I cant define what I mean, because if I could I would be a journalist or Uni lecturer etc. But I know what it is and isn’t when I see it, and so does every one else, well apart from you apparently.

Working smarter isn’t about munching more miles, its about doing those miles more efficiently, back of a bit earlier when heading to a junction to save fuel, don’t overtake a slowly accelerating truck that’s pulling away from a junction, when its only come flashing past you 2 miles earlier, and will thrash past you 2 miles up the road if you do overtake it, this will save fuel, switch of the engine whilst coupling/uncoupling trailers. don’t run the engine for 15-20 minutes in the morning to warm it up, fuel saving, don’t take the trailer ploughing over kerbs corners and junctions to save tyre wheels and suspension damage, same applies to the tractor, but trailers tend to get this type of abuse. Be aware of low hanging trees and gutters on the side of warehouses and low doors on loading bays, we ve all seen these get hit causing damage to the obstacle and the trailer, someone often your boss will have to pick up the tab for that. Replace bulbs and top up window washer bottle, so that the workshops don’t have to add that cost to the service. Its just about doing stuff, that on the face of it, is what a professional driver should do, but some just shrug the shoulders and don’t give a

I’d guess that much of that fits under the heading of an industry in which the government has imposed punitive fuel costs to the point of effectively making the job untenable.

As for drivers ‘ploughing over kerbs and junctions’ or taking out buildings that’s not a motivation issue,that’s a basic safety and driving standards problem at any wage. In which case you won’t fix that by making it easier for the average car driver to drive trucks and pass the LGV test.

While as you’ll have seen my theory is that it’s as much,if not more,an issue of the quality of work on offer and the bs pecking orders ( such as the ‘experience’ thing ) applied in the industry to get it,as wages.

[f-reds]

CF you don’t half waffle some wiffle

[munchkin]

I was told by the owner of a firm that if he could afford to pay his employees more, he would do. Then I put that one to bed, because there’s a firm near me whats a renowned bad payer, and the MD is a young lad who’s constantly posting photos on Facebook of his rich lads’ holidays to Las Vegas, his fast cars, days at the races in a private box, etc, whilst his drivers are slugging-out 60 hours per week on £8.00 an hour. You could say he’s entitled to it, but when you think that he looks at his accounts and thinks,: “Hmm, now I’ve had my £250,000 salary, there isn’t enough to give the drivers a £1 per hour pay rise.”

Anyone remember John Dee [emoji57]

Sent from my X17 using Tapatalk

[shep532]

mrginge:
I’m guessing you told him to only expect the worst for £8.

Not really. I did say he might find someone who needs a job and will do a good job but he might attract better if he paid more.

I know if I needed a job I would take that £8 and work to the best of my ability until another better paid job came along. I wouldn’t be a crap employee just because the pay was low.

[mrginge]

So the good driver starts and leaves a week later to start a new job somewhere else on better pay. Repeat 52 weeks a year and he wonders about the high turnover and gets bored ‘training’ new drivers each Monday.

[eddie_snax]

Carryfast:

eddie snax:
I cant define what I mean, because if I could I would be a journalist or Uni lecturer etc. But I know what it is and isn’t when I see it, and so does every one else, well apart from you apparently.

Working smarter isn’t about munching more miles, its about doing those miles more efficiently, back of a bit earlier when heading to a junction to save fuel, don’t overtake a slowly accelerating truck that’s pulling away from a junction, when its only come flashing past you 2 miles earlier, and will thrash past you 2 miles up the road if you do overtake it, this will save fuel, switch of the engine whilst coupling/uncoupling trailers. don’t run the engine for 15-20 minutes in the morning to warm it up, fuel saving, don’t take the trailer ploughing over kerbs corners and junctions to save tyre wheels and suspension damage, same applies to the tractor, but trailers tend to get this type of abuse. Be aware of low hanging trees and gutters on the side of warehouses and low doors on loading bays, we ve all seen these get hit causing damage to the obstacle and the trailer, someone often your boss will have to pick up the tab for that. Replace bulbs and top up window washer bottle, so that the workshops don’t have to add that cost to the service. Its just about doing stuff, that on the face of it, is what a professional driver should do, but some just shrug the shoulders and don’t give a

I’d guess that much of that fits under the heading of an industry in which the government has imposed punitive fuel costs to the point of effectively making the job untenable.

As for drivers ‘ploughing over kerbs and junctions’ or taking out buildings that’s not a motivation issue,that’s a basic safety and driving standards problem at any wage. In which case you won’t fix that by making it easier for the average car driver to drive trucks and pass the LGV test.

While as you’ll have seen my theory is that it’s as much,if not more,an issue of the quality of work on offer and the bs pecking orders ( such as the ‘experience’ thing ) applied in the industry to get it,as wages.

Agreed that the fuel taxation is punitive, but that’s where we are, so it is upto all within a business to do what they can to make every gallon stretch as far as possible.

A demotivated driver may well have an attitude that makes him care not for the expense both financial and reputational that he might cause to his employer, this may lead him to be more reckless with the equipment provided and have little regard for the premises of the companies customers. Said driver may well have once been the most consciences of drivers, but no longer gives a ******. This has nothing to do with ability, but attitude, and motivation can be built and destroyed in many ways, wages being one.

I don’t understand your last paragraph, sorry. My only comment to be that the bs pecking orders and the ‘experience’ thing, come down to reputation, this must surely be good thing among drivers, in that if you are a driver who looks after the equipment, is respectful to the customers, as the point of contact between the 2 business’s, and aids the general good running of the business rather than hinders it, then there must be some recognition. I would have thought that an old school like yourself would approve of this. Though I may have totally got that all wrong,

[carryfast]

eddie snax:

Carryfast:
While as you’ll have seen my theory is that it’s as much,if not more,an issue of the quality of work on offer and the bs pecking orders ( such as the ‘experience’ thing ) applied in the industry to get it,as wages.

I don’t understand your last paragraph, sorry. My only comment to be that the bs pecking orders and the ‘experience’ thing, come down to reputation, this must surely be good thing among drivers, in that if you are a driver who looks after the equipment, is respectful to the customers, as the point of contact between the 2 business’s, and aids the general good running of the business rather than hinders it, then there must be some recognition. I would have thought that an old school like yourself would approve of this. Though I may have totally got that all wrong,

My problem with pecking orders being more a case of the selectively applied criteria in that regard.IE the issue of ‘reputation’ is in practice more often a case of who anyone knows and/or face fits and/or the bs ‘experience’ issue etc etc and which predictably only seems to apply in the case of the better quality work.But doesn’t seem to apply in the case of the zb work that ‘experienced’ drivers don’t want.Possibly to the point where a good enough ‘reputation’ in one sector of the industry counts for nothing when trying to climb the ladder to another.While how can anyone get a good or a bad ‘reputation’ without actually first being given the chance to get on with the job regardless of previous ‘experience’ anyway.

On that note no when ‘reputation’ is a case of ‘experienced’ drivers,reserving the best type of work for/among themselves,at the expense of new drivers with no experience being left with all the zb,I don’t approve of that now in retirement.Just as when I was a naive new driver having suddenly realised that situation of unwarranted cronyism and elitism,which affects the industry to an unfair disproportionate degree,in that regard.Which is why you’ll find numerous posts of mine advising new drivers not to be naive enough to listen to the idea of start at the bottom on zb work that ‘experienced’ drivers don’t want.Because in many cases to a greater or lesser degree that’s then where they’ll stay having got the ‘reputation’ as a mug.

[ovlov_jay]

Maybe if more companies still used pecking orders, rather than the Plc route of level playing fields and payroll and reg number logistics, we wouldn’t have so many no nothings infecting the industry. People might actually sit back and learn a thing or two, rather than bluff with ■■■■■■■■.

[harry_monk]

Neither of my kids are remotely interested in driving a truck, and I doubt that any of their peers would be interested in doing a job where you are routinely expected to work a 15 hour day.

[rjan]

eddie snax:
Working smarter isn’t about munching more miles, its about doing those miles more efficiently, back of a bit earlier when heading to a junction to save fuel, …

You really are having a laugh aren’t you? Are you seriously suggesting that drivers are doing 15 hour days for little better than minimum wage, because they just haven’t got the knack of using the pedals moderately?

As someone else pointed out, any cost savings will simply be passed on to other businesses in the supply chain in the form of reduced haulage rates. If the wagons ran on fresh air tomorrow, it wouldn’t mean a penny in pay rise for drivers, simply a race further to the bottom on rates.

[carryfast]

Harry Monk:
Neither of my kids are remotely interested in driving a truck, and I doubt that any of their peers would be interested in doing a job where you are routinely expected to work a 15 hour day.

To be fair I’d rather work 12 hours a day as a driver than 8-9 hours a day in a factory for example. Unfortunately the point being that employers in the industry know it and then take advantage of it by going for 15 hour shifts.

[carryfast]

OVLOV JAY:
Maybe if more companies still used pecking orders, rather than the Plc route of level playing fields and payroll and reg number logistics, we wouldn’t have so many no nothings infecting the industry. People might actually sit back and learn a thing or two, rather than bluff with ■■■■■■■■.

The problem is that they do apply pecking orders such as it being no problem for a new class 1 driver to be employed doing zb class 2 work like local multi drop or building deliveries.But that all changes in the case of looking for decent class 2 distance bulk or class 1 distance/international etc.With the only exception being possibly night trunking because again many ‘experienced’ drivers don’t want to work nights.

[winseer]

Are we not still missing the point here - There is this culture in the entire transport industry that "Customer always wants it cheaper, and will NEVER pay more - whilst 100% of a haulier’s overheads is that pesky need to pay wages… FFS that’s not the only bloody overhead in the industry!

If a customer wants something done enough - they can go to a cheaper firm, and risk getting their delivery trashed more over the long term, because that undercutting firm can only take on “halfway house” drivers or “9 points OK” agency.

A firm paying a fair wage will still have a high turnover of MANAGERS I suggest, but the drivers are going to be a lot more happy with their lot - providing the managers don’t actually start managing, and running the drivers ragged instead of themselves…

The firms paying top dollar - you don’t get to hear about, because it’s dead man’s shoes to get in there.

The notion that a haulier can’t possibly afford to pay higher wages without increasing costs to customers or running bent to aid their undercutting - smacks of defeatism within the driver community itself.

If a job is easy to fill - firms can get away with paying low wages.
If the same job later becomes bloody hard to fill - you might not even get the actual staff you want by raising those wages, because it’ll almost certainly be “too little, too late.”

Firms with a good reputation - want to keep it. Drivers will go there even if they are not the highest payers (assuming they’re not near the lowest either ) - because the reputation suggest that "you’ll have a good time working there, relaxed atmosphere, decent managers who are experts at managing human nature rather than penny pinching, - and of course the little perks that the particular employer might have, like staff discounts, subsidized travel, etc.

The immigrant driver in all this is like the salt in the sea. If you evaporate enough of the water - that salt tends to become more concentrated, and if you evaporate too much water - the salt starts precipitating out all over the place, becoming a nuisance and hazard when it wasn’t originally intended to be. Foreign drivers, like it or not - are going to run into language barrier problems, misunderstanding of instructions, sat nav ■■■■-ups - but not necessarily “more actual RTAs”. I can’t remember the last time I saw a Brit driving a Milk artic like Arla…

No one has ever suggested we “remove the salt from the sea” any more than anyone would dare suggest “not allowing immigrants to drive trucks”. It’s a self-defeating notion.
What we CAN do though - is “avoid being forced to drink the seawater” in this little analogy… It’ll get you in the end if you do!