Driver 'shortage': new report, same old story

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
81

Actually looks like a pretty decent gig to me. Bit of van driving, bit of work in the workshop, 45hrs a week. All for pretty much the same money that the parcel van guys are doing hammering themselves on 100 plus drops a day.

Edit to say, Thats how small companies work, do a bit of everything. I was Class 1 for a small family flour mill, most of my time was in an artic but there are just times when its all hands to the pumps and I drove the van or bagged flour or loaded trucks. Thats just the way it is with small business, Billy big balls that wont do anything if its not in his artic dont last long in those small places.

82

Fuzrat:
Actually looks like a pretty decent gig to me. Bit of van driving, bit of work in the workshop, 45hrs a week. All for pretty much the same money that the parcel van guys are doing hammering themselves on 100 plus drops a day.

Edit to say, Thats how small companies work, do a bit of everything. I was Class 1 for a small family flour mill, most of my time was in an artic but there are just times when its all hands to the pumps and I drove the van or bagged flour or loaded trucks. Thats just the way it is with small business, Billy big balls that wont do anything if its not in his artic dont last long in those small places.

Ironically the mugs doing the 100 + drops in a shift are almost as stupid as a ‘driver’ working as a machinist and a labourer for a driver’s wage.
At least the 100 + dropper still has the excuse of preferring that.To working ‘inside’ for a driver’s wage which totally defeats the object of why we do the job.

However at least it busts the myth of own account work supposedly being better conditions.Less chance of being ‘asked’ to do ‘a bit’ of machining in the factory or working in the customer’s warehouse as a labourer when working for an outside dedicated haulage contractor.

What we’re seeing here is the jobs which even the EE’s rightly won’t touch.They prefer to stay at home where at least a low wage to drive actually means driving.While even their 3.5t vans are usually tilt body geared towards distance pallet/cage work not bleeding local multi drop handball zb.Let alone being asked to work in the warehouse/factory.Which ironically was more likely to have been the case under their old Communist regimes where they could arbitrarily be allocated to numerous types of jobs.

The irony of drivers being called billy big balls for wanting to do their chosen job as a driver.While employers are whingeing about a ‘driver’ shortage because ‘drivers’ refuse to work in their warehouse or factory.The clue is in the job title it’s why we do the job and prepared to accept a lower wage for it.That’s not a green light for something for nothing employers to put drivers to work in their warehouse or factory etc.Let alone for a drivers’ wage even if they are prepared to hack it. :unamused:

83

Fuzrat:
Actually looks like a pretty decent gig to me. Bit of van driving, bit of work in the workshop, 45hrs a week. All for pretty much the same money that the parcel van guys are doing hammering themselves on 100 plus drops a day.

Edit to say, Thats how small companies work, do a bit of everything. I was Class 1 for a small family flour mill, most of my time was in an artic but there are just times when its all hands to the pumps and I drove the van or bagged flour or loaded trucks. Thats just the way it is with small business, Billy big balls that wont do anything if its not in his artic dont last long in those small places.

Exactly this, to try and prove his point Carryfast has posted a van driving job and an extreme example of an hgv job (not the norm). In reality the vast majority of van driving jobs are going to involve a bit of everything although driving will be involved to varying levels depending on the nature of the job and the company.

Ironically the best job I ever had before I got into lorry driving 8 years ago was driving a van round the countryside for Tesco, delivering shopping to customers in the region I live in.

I’m sure Carryfast is currently frantically now searching google for another extreme example of a lorry driving job to further his case! :unamused: :unamused: :unamused:

84

tmcassett:
Exactly this, to try and prove his point Carryfast has posted a van driving job and an extreme example of an hgv job (not the norm). In reality the vast majority of van driving jobs are going to involve a bit of everything although driving will be involved to varying levels depending on the nature of the job and the company.

Ironically the best job I ever had before I got into lorry driving 8 years ago was driving a van round the countryside for Tesco, delivering shopping to customers in the region I live in.

I’m sure Carryfast is currently frantically now searching google for another extreme example of a lorry driving job to further his case! :unamused: :unamused: :unamused:

The contradiction in trying to dress up the job of warehouse labourer or factory machinist as that of any type of ‘driver’ demolishes your own bs case.

The best job I ever had driving anything was class 3 bulk pallet drop/s throughout the South of England.
Your point being what.
Other than rural Tesco home deliveries beats the same job in London.Who would have thought it.
Or trying to defend employers whingeing about a non existent ‘driver’ shortage , when what they actually want is warehouse or factory staff and their lies in trying to pass of such zb as ‘driving’ work no longer works for them.
IE if you supposedly really need ‘drivers’ the last thing you’re going to want to do is then lock em up in a warehouse or a factory when you’ve got em.Surely you want em out where they belong out on the road driving.

So where have all the drivers gone.If you’re going to work in a warehouse or a factory might as well bite the bullet and earn the right wage for it and forget the bs driver wage scam.
While the EE’s have taken the jobs and the proper work.To the point of them even doing with 3.5t vans what we once did with artics in the form of distance bulk haulage work.
There’s your bs ‘driver’ shortage in a nutshell. :unamused:

85

Carryfast:

Winseer:

Carryfast:

Carryfast:
I suppose this is an extreme too.Strange how it’s so easy to find such so called ‘extremes’. :unamused:

cv-library.co.uk/job/2128242 … p-labourer

Driver/Workshop Labourer oh wait we also want a Machinist and you’re up for all of them.

Edit to add.I’ve actually contacted the agency in question with an offer of being prepared to take on the driving role only and just being paid for those hours.
Then they can employ someone else to do all the other zb.

Where’s that poster who told gaffer he was a qualified fridge engineer, so got taken off driving to do that instead, but for usual low driver pay, rather than decent engineer’s pay?

All translates as we know that drivers will compromise on wages to drive because they don’t want to work in a factory/warehouse/office.
Great all we need to do now is find a way of combining the two opposing requirements at the expense of the mug by convincing him that it’s still a driving job. :bulb: :laughing:

I wouldn’t mind doing the warehouse/admin/security job on top providing I get the extra wage in full for doing those extra jobs.
Think of how a Union would see one member doing 3-4 people’s jobs on top of their own…

86

Winseer:

Rjan:
…

Whilst I was working at RM, I was being taxed at the rates above. I got it back only after I left as a rebate.

Oh boo hoo. As a man who has previously claimed to have some financial acumen, it surely doesn’t much matter whether you get it at the end of the week or the end of the tax year?

The bottom line is that you’re still being paid more at RM.

RM is easily the most lucrative work around, it’s true - but during this lockdown, it has become apparent that “lowing overheads” is another way to make ends meet, when “raising the top line” just doesn’t work any longer.

I’ve long argued that being prepared to work 3x12-15 hour shifts per week, making for a week of 36-45 hours - is quite enough to be considered a “full time job”, but with the added advantage that working over three shifts rather than six - HALVES the commute cost… Geddit?

And doing just one 45 hour shift, and skipping sleep entirely, would also reduce the commute cost. But we want drivers on the road who are safe, patient, and well-rested, and if there is to be structural change then the easiest way to reduce everyone’s commutes is simply to locate their workplaces nearer to home.

87

Rjan:

Winseer:

Rjan:
…

Whilst I was working at RM, I was being taxed at the rates above. I got it back only after I left as a rebate.

Oh boo hoo. As a man who has previously claimed to have some financial acumen, it surely doesn’t much matter whether you get it at the end of the week or the end of the tax year?

The bottom line is that you’re still being paid more at RM.

RM is easily the most lucrative work around, it’s true - but during this lockdown, it has become apparent that “lowing overheads” is another way to make ends meet, when “raising the top line” just doesn’t work any longer.

I’ve long argued that being prepared to work 3x12-15 hour shifts per week, making for a week of 36-45 hours - is quite enough to be considered a “full time job”, but with the added advantage that working over three shifts rather than six - HALVES the commute cost… Geddit?

And doing just one 45 hour shift, and skipping sleep entirely, would also reduce the commute cost. But we want drivers on the road who are safe, patient, and well-rested, and if there is to be structural change then the easiest way to reduce everyone’s commutes is simply to locate their workplaces nearer to home.

Isn’t that what Trampers are effectively doing? Just going to work ONCE during a full week, spending the other nights sleeping in the truck, rather than wasting fuel going home every night?

A better way for drivers to be “Well Rested” would be to not moan when they have their breaks, not refuse to pay drivers for their breaks they’ve legally got to take, and not to throw obstacles in the way of a driver having a decent break when they can get a hot meal, have access to full facilities, including their own cab…
Hopefully, this Covid thing will cosign being sent to the “Cooler” RDC driver waiting room - to the pages of history.

How many of us these days are being told to “Sit on the passenger side of your cab, having taken your red line off” ?

88

Winseer:

Carryfast:
All translates as we know that drivers will compromise on wages to drive because they don’t want to work in a factory/warehouse/office.
Great all we need to do now is find a way of combining the two opposing requirements at the expense of the mug by convincing him that it’s still a driving job. :bulb: :laughing:

I wouldn’t mind doing the warehouse/admin/security job on top providing I get the extra wage in full for doing those extra jobs.
Think of how a Union would see one member doing 3-4 people’s jobs on top of their own…

I know exactly how proper unions saw it.Demarcation meant what it said on the tin.
We rightly didn’t want 1 man doing 3 - 4 different jobs.
That obviously increases the labour supply at the expense of the so called ‘extra wage’ and the other now unemployed 2 - 3 people who are put on the dole as a result.
Then we’ve got the nerve of something for nothing employers whingeing about a ‘driver’ shortage when they are putting those ‘drivers’ to work inside in warehouses and factories etc when they’ve got them. :imp:

89

Rjan:

Winseer:

Rjan:
…

Whilst I was working at RM, I was being taxed at the rates above. I got it back only after I left as a rebate.

Oh boo hoo. As a man who has previously claimed to have some financial acumen, it surely doesn’t much matter whether you get it at the end of the week or the end of the tax year?

The bottom line is that you’re still being paid more at RM.

RM is easily the most lucrative work around, it’s true - but during this lockdown, it has become apparent that “lowing overheads” is another way to make ends meet, when “raising the top line” just doesn’t work any longer.

I’ve long argued that being prepared to work 3x12-15 hour shifts per week, making for a week of 36-45 hours - is quite enough to be considered a “full time job”, but with the added advantage that working over three shifts rather than six - HALVES the commute cost… Geddit?

And doing just one 45 hour shift, and skipping sleep entirely, would also reduce the commute cost. But we want drivers on the road who are safe, patient, and well-rested, and if there is to be structural change then the easiest way to reduce everyone’s commutes is simply to locate their workplaces nearer to home.

Surely the best of all worlds is 3 or 4 x 10-15 hour shifts on and 3 - 4 off.
12 hours daily rest is sufficient to allow 8-9 hours sleep, the best commute is no commute and your time off is decent quality time off.
It doesn’t have to be more than 1 15 hour shift per week with the 15 hour shift at the start or end of the week so no real problem there regards sleep.
Also transport isn’t really going to work with less than 10 - 12 possibly 15 hour shifts.

With the bonus of increased demand for drivers and reducing the labour supply.
Oh wait.

90

Carryfast:
Also transport isn’t really going to work with less than 10 - 12 possibly 15 hour shifts.

Rubbish. Do you seriously think transport “didn’t work” before the arrival of the 15 hour shift?

91

Rjan:

Carryfast:
Also transport isn’t really going to work with less than 10 - 12 possibly 15 hour shifts.

Rubbish. Do you seriously think transport “didn’t work” before the arrival of the 15 hour shift?

The institutionalised regular 15 hour shift obviously being a result of the EUSSR workers utopia.
I was clearly only referring to unforeseen exceptional circumstances.Followed by immediate compensation by starting later the following shift or an early start following a 3 or 4 day break of the shortened week or late finish preceding one.
As I said a driver shortgage is an oxymoron when we’ve got employers wanting drivers to spend a large part of their working day or week employed doing anything but driving from working in a warehouse to a factory or an office.Possibly also taking full advantage of 15 hour shifts and 5-6 day weeks.Driver shortage bs.

92

The advent of the 15 hour shift - is only a problem for truckers IF you are then MADE to work them “for a salary”…

Being paid by the hour - what’s not-to-like if the hourly rate is high enough, and there’s no 90m meal break taken off as well?

93

Winseer:
The advent of the 15 hour shift - is only a problem for truckers IF you are then MADE to work them “for a salary”…

Being paid by the hour - what’s not-to-like if the hourly rate is high enough, and there’s no 90m meal break taken off as well?

Here’s a clue by necessity it won’t be a high hourly rate and if it’s a regular occurrence it will create a fatigue risk.

It’s obvious that we’re not talking about optional over time paid at £12 + per hour.
Hauliers don’t generally earn anything for a truck being parked up for 5-6 hours in a shift which means neither can the driver.
Oh wait let’s use the driver to then replace warehouse/factory/office staff and drive the truck/van win win.
So that 10 hour job and finish run turns into a 4 hours driving or less 11 hour warehouse work shift + commuting time.For the same hourly rate that seemed ok for that distance trailer swap job. :bulb:

94

Carryfast:

Winseer:
The advent of the 15 hour shift - is only a problem for truckers IF you are then MADE to work them “for a salary”…

Being paid by the hour - what’s not-to-like if the hourly rate is high enough, and there’s no 90m meal break taken off as well?

Here’s a clue by necessity it won’t be a high hourly rate and if it’s a regular occurrence it will create a fatigue risk.

It’s obvious that we’re not talking about optional over time paid at £12 + per hour.
Hauliers don’t generally earn anything for a truck being parked up for 5-6 hours in a shift which means neither can the driver.
Oh wait let’s use the driver to then replace warehouse/factory/office staff and drive the truck/van win win.
So that 10 hour job and finish run turns into a 4 hours driving or less 11 hour warehouse work shift + commuting time.For the same hourly rate that seemed ok for that distance trailer swap job. :bulb:

I used to work via two agencies @ F&W Teynham where one paid a “right through” hourly rate, based on the time one started, and the other agency paid overtime after 8 hours.
BOTH agencies took the proverbial 1hr off for “meal break”.

Agency 1 used to start me at 17:45 and have me in for the full 15 hours, so I worked right through the night until 08:45 on DAY rate, that being the right-through rate, not getting the night rate unless one started after 18:00 hrs… I asked for shifts starting at this time, always to be told “none available”, but I’d always be called in at the last minute all-too-often for the 17:45 starts I was mug enough (before I realized I was being had…) to take.

Agency 2 used to have me in at any time, as the hourly rate varied little between start times:
Problem here was that I’d be planned to get back to the yard from a run @ the 9hrs into the shift mark, and then sent home for flat 8 hours money once the hour meal relief was taken off…

This was when I learned the hard way that the agnecy client firms using co-operative “acting management” to fleece hapless staff out of as much money as possible.

On the subject of high vs low hourly rates - for the high hourly rate, the firm can dictate the action. For £20ph I’ll sweep the floor or clean the loos if asked, when the actual driving work is quiet.
It is better than being left unpaid at home, with the phone not ringing…

For a LOW hourly rate though - I insist on being a steering wheel attendent, with the only non-driving time being waiting, such as at RDCs.
I am dyslexic, and struggle to read anything bar the printed word, hence I’m not much good with other people’s paperwork with their spidery illegible (to me) handwriting on it.

Give me a life outside the office, and on the road. It shouldn’t be so much for a pro driver to ask - surely? :frowning:

95

Carryfast:

Winseer:
The advent of the 15 hour shift - is only a problem for truckers IF you are then MADE to work them “for a salary”…

Being paid by the hour - what’s not-to-like if the hourly rate is high enough, and there’s no 90m meal break taken off as well?

Here’s a clue by necessity it won’t be a high hourly rate and if it’s a regular occurrence it will create a fatigue risk.

It’s obvious that we’re not talking about optional over time paid at £12 + per hour.
Hauliers don’t generally earn anything for a truck being parked up for 5-6 hours in a shift which means neither can the driver.
Oh wait let’s use the driver to then replace warehouse/factory/office staff and drive the truck/van win win.
So that 10 hour job and finish run turns into a 4 hours driving or less 11 hour warehouse work shift + commuting time.For the same hourly rate that seemed ok for that distance trailer swap job. :bulb:

For gods sake you bore, give it a rest with your constant (and incorrect) whinging that every driving job involves being expected to work in the warehouse as well. You have no idea what you are talking about as usual.