Carryfast’s example is in a specialised field, so could hardly be described as typical, therefore ridiculous and irrelevant.
It ain’t even haulage as such, it’s to do with surveys maintenance and repairs as far as I can see, so the actual ‘driving’ is just part of it, rather than the main purpose of the job.
A bit like the Network Rail guys who go out to track, line and communication repairs, one guy drives the Class 2 truck,.and has his other duties on site, whatever they may be, it’s a bit different to doing Class 2 deliveries.
As said a firm can advertise any duties,.especially in a ‘specialised’ field, it’s up to the individual whether or not he is attracted to it.
In CF’s example, they are hardly going to employ somebody as a ‘driver only’ in that job, a ‘driver only’ is hardly going to have a full days work,.and is going to be sat around with his finger up his arse most of the day waiting for another colleague (s) to do the rest of the stuff it entails, when his driving to site (ie his part of the job) is done.
Maybe the pay for that job is excellent, and compensates for all the different duties, so if it sounds ok to someone with a bit of versatility…, what is wrong with it exactly?
It’s a bit different to doing extra duties in warehousing etc as a mundane haulage driver for your 10 quid an hour…but at least then CF’s point WOULD be relevant.
robroy:
Carryfast’s example is in a specialised field, so could hardly be described as typical, therefore ridiculous and irrelevant.
It ain’t even haulage as such, it’s to do with surveys maintenance and repairs as far as I can see, so the actual ‘driving’ is just part of it, rather than the main purpose of the job.
A bit like the Network Rail guys who go out to track, line and communication repairs, one guy drives the Class 2 truck,.and has his other duties on site, whatever they may be, it’s a bit different to doing Class 2 deliveries.
As said a firm can advertise any duties,.especially in a ‘specialised’ field, it’s up to the individual whether or not he is attracted to it.
In CF’s example, they are hardly going to employ somebody as a ‘driver only’ in that job, a ‘driver only’ is hardly going to have a full days work,.and is going to be sat around with his finger up his arse most of the day waiting for another colleague (s) to do the rest of the stuff it entails, when his driving to site (ie his part of the job) is done.
Maybe the pay for that job is excellent, and compensates for all the different duties, so if it sounds ok to someone with a bit of versatility…, what is wrong with it exactly?
It’s a bit different to doing extra duties in warehousing etc as a mundane haulage driver for your 10 quid an hour…but at least then CF’s point WOULD be relevant.
You beat me to it.
Its a bit like my job, I drive a wagon for 2 hours to get to a building site. I then will spend maybe 6 hours on site installing cabins up to my neck in mud and crap.
Most lorry drivers wont do my job as they see it as too physical and would rather doss on the bunk for 3 hours whilst waiting to tip even though the pay is very good.
tmcassett:
Also, you keep mentioning some job advert you posted - again I have no idea what you are on about here?
ULC Robotics is seeking a Class 1 Driver / Warehouse Operative to join a rapidly expanding UK based team that operates and maintains robotic systems which perform critical repairs from within buried natural gas infrastructure. This unique opportunity allows the successful candidates to work within a dynamic environment among some of the brightest minds in the field.
You will work closely with the Logistics Manager to provide support to in house technicians and field crews.
Main Duties:
Receiving and checking incoming goods, with IT system
Retrieving orders according to quantity, size, ensuring accurate
Building pallets with orders, then wrapping the orders
Moving and loading orders with a FLT
Class 1 Driver / Warehouse Operative must have the following:
Class 1 Drivers license with proven experience
FLT License
Previous warehouse experience
A hands-on attitude with an inclination toward mechanics and electronics; troubleshooting experience is a major plus
The ability to pass a mandatory drug/alcohol test and background check
The flexibility to be available for travel whenever necessary and to work away remotely for long periods of time in company provided accommodation
A willingness to work outside of normal working hours, including night and weekend work
Fit and able to perform manual duties.
The ability to work within a small team or in some cases alone unsupervised
Excellent communication skills required to work well within a small team and accurately complete reports.
Unless that’s paying about £150k per year then who would be dumb enough to apply?
class 1 driver
FLT driver
technician/engineer
warehouse man
administrator
packer
required to work long periods away on a whim
days, nights and weekends required when it suits them
tmcassett:
Also, you keep mentioning some job advert you posted - again I have no idea what you are on about here?
ULC Robotics is seeking a Class 1 Driver / Warehouse Operative to join a rapidly expanding UK based team that operates and maintains robotic systems which perform critical repairs from within buried natural gas infrastructure. This unique opportunity allows the successful candidates to work within a dynamic environment among some of the brightest minds in the field.
You will work closely with the Logistics Manager to provide support to in house technicians and field crews.
Main Duties:
Receiving and checking incoming goods, with IT system
Retrieving orders according to quantity, size, ensuring accurate
Building pallets with orders, then wrapping the orders
Moving and loading orders with a FLT
Class 1 Driver / Warehouse Operative must have the following:
Class 1 Drivers license with proven experience
FLT License
Previous warehouse experience
A hands-on attitude with an inclination toward mechanics and electronics; troubleshooting experience is a major plus
The ability to pass a mandatory drug/alcohol test and background check
The flexibility to be available for travel whenever necessary and to work away remotely for long periods of time in company provided accommodation
A willingness to work outside of normal working hours, including night and weekend work
Fit and able to perform manual duties.
The ability to work within a small team or in some cases alone unsupervised
Excellent communication skills required to work well within a small team and accurately complete reports.
Unless that’s paying about £150k per year then who would be dumb enough to apply?
class 1 driver
FLT driver
technician/engineer
warehouse man
administrator
packer
required to work long periods away on a whim
days, nights and weekends required when it suits them
Yeah, where do I apply?
If it was a third of that it would be a decent number would it not?
Versatility, variety, using your initiative, demanding, and not boring…for 50k?
For usual crappy driver’s rates?..not a chance in hell.
That was part of the point I was trying to make.
robroy:
If it was a third of that it would be a decent number would it not?
Versatility, variety, using your initiative, demanding, and not boring…for 50k?
For usual crappy driver’s rates?..not a chance in hell.
That was part of the point I was trying to make.
£50k? You can get into the 40s without much effort just driving class 1 if you’re happy to do weekend and/or nights.
Reading between the lines of the job ad, you’d be flat out all day, management constantly chasing you asking you when x, y and z are going to get done and on top of that you’d probably have to figure out solutions to the inevitable problems which would arise along the way and also be expected to execute them on top of everything else.
Basically, the owner wants someone to run the business for him/her while they sit on their arse and watch their bank account fill up.
robroy:
If it was a third of that it would be a decent number would it not?
Versatility, variety, using your initiative, demanding, and not boring…for 50k?
For usual crappy driver’s rates?..not a chance in hell.
That was part of the point I was trying to make.
£50k? You can get into the 40s without much effort just driving class 1 if you’re happy to do weekend and/or nights.
Reading between the lines of the job ad, you’d be flat out all day, management constantly chasing you asking you when x, y and z are going to get done and on top of that you’d probably have to figure out solutions to the inevitable problems which would arise along the way and also be expected to execute them on top of everything else.
Basically, the owner wants someone to run the business for him/her while they sit on their arse and watch their bank account fill up.
Aye ok, but it’s all hypothetical innit.
The pay rate ain’t specified, but IF the money actually IS right, it’s going to attract somebody.
I know people who thrive on pressure, and love having to be put on the spot, using initiative, and taking all the flak that responsibility brings with it.
My eldest lad being one for instance who runs a busy Ford dealership service and maintenance dept, he loves it, and gets more than amply paid for it, but he also knows when to switch off and not take his work home with him on his mind, thus avoiding that pressure related heart attack in later life.
It won’t suit everybody, but those guys are out there.
Having now seen that job advert that Carryfast posted he has made himself look even more of an idiot in trying to prove his point. That is one extreme example and is in no way relevant to 99% of your typical driving jobs that exist. Reading it reminded me of the time Winseer posted a link to a story about some women falling off a bridge between the carriageways and tried to blame it on smart motorways because he has an agenda against them and wanted to highlight that point, even though it was totally irrelevant as the incident did not happen on a smart motorway!
Back to Carryfast, Robroy has pretty much summed up everything I would have said in his response above to the advert.
Are not the “discounters” Aldi and Lidl - employing more “Warehouse Workers that happen to hold HGV licences” than Drivers who know how to do a bit of admin work?
If all firms are racing to the bottom now, the quality of work becomes more important in due course.
A 12 hour shift @ RM for example, might pay £240 gross, but that is less £30 for unpaid meal break, 40% in higher rate taxes, 12% in NI, and hey presto - you end up taking home around £110 for that shift.
Compare that to 15 hours where you get paid for every hour, albeit @ say £9.00ph, gross earnings £135, no deduction for meal break, probably spent half your day on a bay waiting to get tipped, no pressure for time, no in the crapper for being more than 9 minutes late, lower stress levels, 20% tax instead of 40%, 10% NI, leaving one with only slightly less in the pocket at the end of the day…
The ones I feel sorry for - are those with debt repayments exceeding £1000 per month who simply cannot drop their hours to below 50 per week - regardless of how low the hourly rate goes…
My Dad manages quite nicely on his 40% final salary pension, even though it pays only the equivalent of 2 shifts per week’s pay… How come? No Debt interest to pay. That’s the secret. Debt Interest needs to be liquidated the moment one realizes that it simply ain’t gonna work any longer, this “working all hours to pay interest” nobbery…
tmcassett:
Having now seen that job advert that Carryfast posted he has made himself look even more of an idiot in trying to prove his point. That is one extreme example and is in no way relevant to 99% of your typical driving jobs that exist. Reading it reminded me of the time Winseer posted a link to a story about some women falling off a bridge between the carriageways and tried to blame it on smart motorways because he has an agenda against them and wanted to highlight that point, even though it was totally irrelevant as the incident did not happen on a smart motorway!
Back to Carryfast, Robroy has pretty much summed up everything I would have said in his response above to the advert.
There was nothing extreme about it.
There are loads of driving jobs calling for bs ‘other duties’ like that among others.
Strange how that just happened with a random search driver/warehouse.
It’s also actually what largely contributed to putting me out of the job.
As for the bs 99% I’ve even seen similar bs claims that my own former employers don’t require heavy handball warehouse labouring work at hubs between ‘trunk’ runs.
Rob is just lucky that he has the luxury of being able to talk bollox being in a decentish job.
You just sound like a manager on a mission trying to justify the unjustifiable.
I suppose this is an extreme too.Strange how it’s so easy to find such so called ‘extremes’.
Winseer:
Are not the “discounters” Aldi and Lidl - employing more “Warehouse Workers that happen to hold HGV licences” than Drivers who know how to do a bit of admin work?
If all firms are racing to the bottom now, the quality of work becomes more important in due course.
A 12 hour shift @ RM for example, might pay £240 gross, but that is less £30 for unpaid meal break, 40% in higher rate taxes, 12% in NI, and hey presto - you end up taking home around £110 for that shift.
Compare that to 15 hours where you get paid for every hour, albeit @ say £9.00ph, gross earnings £135, no deduction for meal break, probably spent half your day on a bay waiting to get tipped, no pressure for time, no in the crapper for being more than 9 minutes late, lower stress levels, 20% tax instead of 40%, 10% NI, leaving one with only slightly less in the pocket at the end of the day…
The ones I feel sorry for - are those with debt repayments exceeding £1000 per month who simply cannot drop their hours to below 50 per week - regardless of how low the hourly rate goes…
My Dad manages quite nicely on his 40% final salary pension, even though it pays only the equivalent of 2 shifts per week’s pay… How come? No Debt interest to pay. That’s the secret. Debt Interest needs to be liquidated the moment one realizes that it simply ain’t gonna work any longer, this “working all hours to pay interest” nobbery…
Wage rates are obviously moot when the employers will just multi task the job out of all recognition to the point where a job title becomes meaningless especially the job title of ‘Driver’.
But according to the expert opinion of Robroy it ain’t happening.
Winseer:
A 12 hour shift @ RM for example, might pay £240 gross, but that is less £30 for unpaid meal break, 40% in higher rate taxes, 12% in NI, and hey presto - you end up taking home around £110 for that shift.
.
You do realise that when you go over 50K a year it is only the amount you go over that is taxed at higher rate? So you get personal allowance, then up to 50k is at 20% and the rest at 40% On your example it is only £47 of the day rate taxed at 40% not the whole lot so would be looking at about £165-£170 for that shift. Big difference huh?
Winseer:
A 12 hour shift @ RM for example, might pay £240 gross, but that is less £30 for unpaid meal break, 40% in higher rate taxes, 12% in NI, and hey presto - you end up taking home around £110 for that shift.
.
You do realise that when you go over 50K a year it is only the amount you go over that is taxed at higher rate? So you get personal allowance, then up to 50k is at 20% and the rest at 40% On your example it is only £47 of the day rate taxed at 40% not the whole lot so would be looking at about £165-£170 for that shift. Big difference huh?
I’m talking about the temporary shortfall of takehome pay, where you get taxed at W1M1 higher rates, even if you get it back later in the year as a rebate.
It means earning a grand a week - doesn’t translate into the £800pw takehome one might have been hoping for to “pay that mortgage arrears that MUST be paid this month - or face eviction”…
Driver/Workshop Labourer oh wait we also want a Machinist and you’re up for all of them.
Edit to add.I’ve actually contacted the agency in question with an offer of being prepared to take on the driving role only and just being paid for those hours.
Then they can employ someone else to do all the other zb.
The reply was that we’ve got enough drivers on the books but in this case the client isn’t prepared to split the driving role from the rest.
No surprise no one wants the job including/especially the EE workforce.
Oh but we’ve now filled the vacancy anyway.So why is it still advertised.
Winseer:
A 12 hour shift @ RM for example, might pay £240 gross, but that is less £30 for unpaid meal break, 40% in higher rate taxes, 12% in NI, and hey presto - you end up taking home around £110 for that shift.
Compare that to 15 hours where you get paid for every hour, albeit @ say £9.00ph, gross earnings £135, no deduction for meal break, probably spent half your day on a bay waiting to get tipped, no pressure for time, no in the crapper for being more than 9 minutes late, lower stress levels, 20% tax instead of 40%, 10% NI, leaving one with only slightly less in the pocket at the end of the day…
Do you have a sideline selling snake oil? I’ve never seen such mathematical twaddle!
If you are paying 40% tax instead of 20%, then you are obviously doing better financially at RM than elsewhere, even with unpaid breaks.
Of course, the nature and conditions of the work may vary between jobs, but you can hardly expect to earn more than twice the average wage without some graft or unpleasantness.
Winseer:
A 12 hour shift @ RM for example, might pay £240 gross, but that is less £30 for unpaid meal break, 40% in higher rate taxes, 12% in NI, and hey presto - you end up taking home around £110 for that shift.
Compare that to 15 hours where you get paid for every hour, albeit @ say £9.00ph, gross earnings £135, no deduction for meal break, probably spent half your day on a bay waiting to get tipped, no pressure for time, no in the crapper for being more than 9 minutes late, lower stress levels, 20% tax instead of 40%, 10% NI, leaving one with only slightly less in the pocket at the end of the day…
Do you have a sideline selling snake oil? I’ve never seen such mathematical twaddle!
If you are paying 40% tax instead of 20%, then you are obviously doing better financially at RM than elsewhere, even with unpaid breaks.
Of course, the nature and conditions of the work may vary between jobs, but you can hardly expect to earn more than twice the average wage without some graft or unpleasantness.
Whilst I was working at RM, I was being taxed at the rates above. I got it back only after I left as a rebate.
RM is easily the most lucrative work around, it’s true - but during this lockdown, it has become apparent that “lowing overheads” is another way to make ends meet, when “raising the top line” just doesn’t work any longer.
I’ve long argued that being prepared to work 3x12-15 hour shifts per week, making for a week of 36-45 hours - is quite enough to be considered a “full time job”, but with the added advantage that working over three shifts rather than six - HALVES the commute cost… Geddit?
tmcassett:
Having now seen that job advert that Carryfast posted he has made himself look even more of an idiot in trying to prove his point. That is one extreme example and is in no way relevant to 99% of your typical driving jobs that exist. Reading it reminded me of the time Winseer posted a link to a story about some women falling off a bridge between the carriageways and tried to blame it on smart motorways because he has an agenda against them and wanted to highlight that point, even though it was totally irrelevant as the incident did not happen on a smart motorway!
Back to Carryfast, Robroy has pretty much summed up everything I would have said in his response above to the advert.
There was nothing extreme about it.
There are loads of driving jobs calling for bs ‘other duties’ like that among others.
Strange how that just happened with a random search driver/warehouse.
It’s also actually what largely contributed to putting me out of the job.
As for the bs 99% I’ve even seen similar bs claims that my own former employers don’t require heavy handball warehouse labouring work at hubs between ‘trunk’ runs.
Rob is just lucky that he has the luxury of being able to talk bollox being in a decentish job.
You just sound like a manager on a mission trying to justify the unjustifiable.
I suppose this is an extreme too.Strange how it’s so easy to find such so called ‘extremes’.
Driver/Workshop Labourer oh wait we also want a Machinist and you’re up for all of them.
If you input “driver/warehouse” “driver/workshop labourer” etc on a job search site that’s exactly what you will find. In fact, that’s one of the great things about the internet - you can find exactly what you want to suit any agenda or personal opinion on something.
You can keep posting individual examples of jobs to prove your point all you want but they are exactly that … individual examples.
If you want a typical driving job they really aren’t hard to find. The fact you could not find one says pretty much everything anyone needs to know about you.
Winseer:
I’ve long argued that being prepared to work 3x12-15 hour shifts per week, making for a week of 36-45 hours - is quite enough to be considered a “full time job”, but with the added advantage that working over three shifts rather than six - HALVES the commute cost… Geddit?
There are lots of examples which suggest that employers want to impose the worst possible rotas and regimes out of spite.Nothing else explains it.
Like the factories were aiming for a 35 hour 4 day week.Not really to reduce the commuting costs but to reduce the prison like existence by at least providing three days off per week.
Instead of which 5 days + Saturday morning was considered the norm until the 1960’s then the need for 45 hours 5 day week to make a living.
Also miners choked by coal dust having to spend too long down the pit for their pittance.
As for your example more like 12 hours per day 5 days per week.Or more.
While we’ve got loads of the work force under employed.
Also, as I’ve shown, demarcation lines having been trashed to laughable extremes, by employers taking advantage of the mugs.Then they call the resulting one man doing two or three different job roles ‘flexibility’.
tmcassett:
If you input “driver/warehouse” “driver/workshop labourer” etc on a job search site that’s exactly what you will find. In fact, that’s one of the great things about the internet - you can find exactly what you want to suit any agenda or personal opinion on something.
You can keep posting individual examples of jobs to prove your point all you want but they are exactly that … individual examples.
If you want a typical driving job they really aren’t hard to find. The fact you could not find one says pretty much everything anyone needs to know about you.
No if you input those examples and can find more of them than inputting the job of Driver it proves my point not yours.
Also bearing in mind that many/most of those examples of those zb jobs still come up with just the input of Driver.
Strange how the employers all like to big up the driver part of the job then put the ‘other roles’ expected after.Sometimes not even putting those roles in the actual job title at all.
As in the case of trade plate ‘vehicle delivery and collection drivers’.Which actually translates as skilled vehicle condition valuer and assessor/driver paid at an unskilled driver rate.
Unbelievably no one seems to have challenged such assessments for lease return valuations on the grounds that they’ve been made by an unskilled driver rather than a qualified vehicle engineer.
It’s clearly a something for nothing culture among employers which the mugs have allowed to evolve.
Driver/Workshop Labourer oh wait we also want a Machinist and you’re up for all of them.
Edit to add.I’ve actually contacted the agency in question with an offer of being prepared to take on the driving role only and just being paid for those hours.
Then they can employ someone else to do all the other zb.
The reply was that we’ve got enough drivers on the books but in this case the client isn’t prepared to split the driving role from the rest.
No surprise no one wants the job including/especially the EE workforce.
Oh but we’ve now filled the vacancy anyway.So why is it still advertised.
Where’s that poster who told gaffer he was a qualified fridge engineer, so got taken off driving to do that instead, but for usual low driver pay, rather than decent engineer’s pay?
Driver/Workshop Labourer oh wait we also want a Machinist and you’re up for all of them.
Edit to add.I’ve actually contacted the agency in question with an offer of being prepared to take on the driving role only and just being paid for those hours.
Then they can employ someone else to do all the other zb.
Where’s that poster who told gaffer he was a qualified fridge engineer, so got taken off driving to do that instead, but for usual low driver pay, rather than decent engineer’s pay?
All translates as we know that drivers will compromise on wages to drive because they don’t want to work in a factory/warehouse/office.
Great all we need to do now is find a way of combining the two opposing requirements at the expense of the mug by convincing him that it’s still a driving job.
