Sorry guys another newbie question that I just wanna get straight before I start. So I know you obviously have to comply with drivers hours ect but won’t really affect me that much with multi drop because there’s not gonna be a time when I drive for more then 4.5 hours ile obviously be having a break anyway. And will need it to comply with working time directive. But my question is according to the wd your averse working week just not exceed 48 hours but a interview I was told there was chance of overtime so how Does this work? Someone told me you can opt out of the working time directive and work. More then 48 hours as long as you take the adequate breaks ect ? How true is this ?
Officially…
If you are sat waiting to be loaded, unloaded, or have nothing to do, and you know exactly when that period will end, you can put tacho on POA (period of availability), and that time is exempt from the calculation of working hours and the average working hours.
Unofficially, a lot of less than scrupulous firms tell drivers to use as much POA as possible (even in situations where it technically doesn’t apply), on the basis it is hard to prove after the even whether it was legitimate POA or not, and it keeps the working hours down.
If during an induction you hear the immortal phrase “we use a lot of POA here” then be sure you will be working all the hours God sends and all lingering about will be POA to fiddle the intent of the WTD.
Here is a fairly good summary of everything: Driving Under the EU Hours Rules | Transports Friend
Lets be realistic - no authority is bothered about the WTD - at least not in the last 10+ years
As long as the driving time regs are adhered to then who is bothered about the WTD ?
The 48 thing is for an EMPLOYER to worry about if they can be bothered and not the driver
ROG:
Lets be realistic - no authority is bothered about the WTD - at least not in the last 10+ yearsAs long as the driving time regs are adhered to then who is bothered about the WTD ?
The 48 thing is for an EMPLOYER to worry about if they can be bothered and not the driver
Thank you guys so my tacho will not come up with exceptions for wtd then or will it I just don’t want to get in ■■■■ in my first week ect 
and when they say driving time I guess they mean driving time?! so I don’t believe I will clock up lots of driving due to multi dropping if you see where im coming from? and I bet they tell me to do poa when im doing a drop then! lol
Picking up or delivering is “other work” unless you aren’t involved. Then it could be break (probably best) or POA.
Pete 
ash 001:
ROG:
Lets be realistic - no authority is bothered about the WTD - at least not in the last 10+ yearsAs long as the driving time regs are adhered to then who is bothered about the WTD ?
The 48 thing is for an EMPLOYER to worry about if they can be bothered and not the driver
Thank you guys so my tacho will not come up with exceptions for wtd then or will it I just don’t want to get in [zb] in my first week ect
TACHO ANALYSIS will flag up WTD infringements for breaches of the 6 hours rule or not having enough breaks for WTD but then its up to each company as to what they do about it so check what the company policy is - the authorities certainly are not interested
ROG:
ash 001:
ROG:
Lets be realistic - no authority is bothered about the WTD - at least not in the last 10+ yearsAs long as the driving time regs are adhered to then who is bothered about the WTD ?
The 48 thing is for an EMPLOYER to worry about if they can be bothered and not the driver
Thank you guys so my tacho will not come up with exceptions for wtd then or will it I just don’t want to get in [zb] in my first week ect
TACHO ANALYSIS will flag up WTD infringements for breaches of the 6 hours rule or not having enough breaks for WTD but then its up to each company as to what they do about it so check what the company policy is - the authorities certainly are not interested
ok I understand so basically as long as im having a 30 min break in 6 hours worked and another 45 min break no infringements will come up? and by the way speed infringements what happens regarding these? whats the allowance 10% +2?
Close! But ROG will correct you! 
sorry a total of 45 mins of breaks 
I may be talking bollox Ash, but you need a 15min break before, or the second you work your initial 6 hours without a break. I.e. You drive a bit, you do “other work” a bit. Your driving time hasn’t hit 4.5 hours, so you haven’t taken a break. As a result, I’ve seen a few posts on this forum forgetting this 15 min break within the first 6 hours.
After 6 hours & before 9, will need another 15 min break. But your also likely to need a driving break at this time. So probably not so much of an issue.
ROG has answered this question many times, so i’ll leave the precise technical details to him!
Evil8Beezle:
I may be talking bollox Ash, but you need a 15min break before, or the second you work your initial 6 hours without a break. I.e. You drive a bit, you do “other work” a bit. Your driving time hasn’t hit 4.5 hours, so you haven’t taken a break. As a result, I’ve seen a few posts on this forum forgetting this 15 min break within the first 6 hours.After 6 hours & before 9, will need another 15 min break. But your also likely to need a driving break at this time. So probably not so much of an issue.
ROG has answered this question many times, so i’ll leave the precise technical details to him!
ahh I see thank you
Evil8Beezle:
I may be talking bollox Ash, but you need a 15min break before, or the second you work your initial 6 hours without a break. I.e. You drive a bit, you do “other work” a bit. Your driving time hasn’t hit 4.5 hours, so you haven’t taken a break. As a result, I’ve seen a few posts on this forum forgetting this 15 min break within the first 6 hours.After 6 hours & before 9, will need another 15 min break. But your also likely to need a driving break at this time. So probably not so much of an issue.
ROG has answered this question many times, so i’ll leave the precise technical details to him!
There is no rule requiring a driver to have a second 15 break before 9 hours
It’s been suggested that no-ones bothered about the RT(WT)R breaks, however you should be aware that to ignore them could have an impact on your driving career.
I understand that you’re going to work for a large company who will most likely expect you to comply with the road transport working time regulations, but whether they comply with the working time regulations or not lets consider the implications of ignoring the working time regulations.
If you ignore the working time regulations on breaks and get lots of WTD infringements which are ignored by the company (which is unlikely with DHL) then one day you go for an interview/assessment for another job the first thing that’s likely to happen is that your card will be downloaded, the potential employer sees lots of infringements on your driver card and you’ve already reduced your chances of getting the job.
Or lets suppose you decide to do some agency work, every-time the agency sends you to a new place of work your card will be downloaded and the employer will see the infringements, the first impression of you as a driver will be that you’re an incompetent fool who can’t be trusted to comply with the regulations and the TMs first phone call is likely to be to the agency to tell them not to send you there again.
It’s true that the DVSA do not at this time monitor the RT(WT)R but the DVSA are not the only people that matter, as you can see from the couple of examples above keeping a reasonably clean card is to your advantage regardless of what the DVSA think about the working time regulations.
From my own experience I can assure you that most companies will expect you to comply with the drivers regulations ((EC) 561/2006) and the RT(WT)R 2005 and will issue infringements for none compliance of either.
The rules for the working time regulation breaks are:
Up-to 6 hours working time.
- No break is legally required.
If the shift is more than 6 hours working time but not more than 9 hours working time.
- A total break/breaks of 30 minutes is required, this can be taken in 2 parts of 15 minutes each and at-least 15 minutes of the 30 minute break should be taken before going over 6 hours working time.
Or (You are legally required to comply with either the rule above, or the rule bellow, but not both)
If the shift is more than 9 hours working time.
- Total break/breaks should be at-least 45 minutes and at no point in the shift should you do more than 6 hours working time before having a break of at-least 15 minutes.
- So for the 6 hour rule a 15 minute break should be taken
- No later than 6 hours working time from the start of the shift
- And*
- No later than 6 hours working time since the end of the last break.
[/*:m][/list:u]
Breaks for the working time regulations (RT(WT)R 2005) can be split into separate breaks of at-least 15 minutes each and cannot be taken at the immediate start or end of the shift.
Driving breaks count as breaks for the RT(WT)R and where appropriate breaks for the RT(WT)R count as driving breaks.
ash 001:
Thank you guys so my tacho will not come up with exceptions for wtd then or will it I just don’t want to get in [zb] in my first week ect
Exceptions no infringements yes 
ash 001:
and when they say driving time I guess they mean driving time?! so I don’t believe I will clock up lots of driving due to multi dropping if you see where im coming from?
Driving time is recorded only when the wheels are turning, multi-drop doesn’t necessarily mean you won’t go over 4½ hours driving time, if you do shop deliveries which is what I assume you’re doing you could easily clock up more than 4½ hours driving time.
If you use POA be aware that a digital tachograph counts POA as break and will wrongly reset the driving time on the tachograph display after 45 minutes POA, for this reason if you use POA be sure to keep track of your driving time in case it’s wrongly reset on the tachograph display.
thank you for the reply tachograph much appreciated, basically I will obviously comply with breaks ect but my concern is the average week of 48 hours will that come up on my tacho if I exceed and I am employed by dhl and driving for next so its house deliveries so doubt I will clock up more then 9 hours driving time in a day
ash 001:
thank you for the reply tachograph much appreciated, basically I will obviously comply with breaks ect but my concern is the average week of 48 hours will that come up on my tacho if I exceed and I am employed by dhl and driving for next so its house deliveries so doubt I will clock up more then 9 hours driving time in a day
The 48 hour week is an average over the reference period which is usually either 17 or 26 weeks, only working time is calculated in the 48 hour average, POA and breaks do not count towards the average working time.
The company should keep a record of your average hours and tell you if you need to reduce your weekly hours near the end of the reference period.
Using break and POA some drivers manage to clock up 70/80 hours a week so you can see going over 48 hours duty time can easily be done legally
Don’t fret over the 48 hour average, the company should keep you straight if they’re concerned about it.
The reference period can start and finish at different dates on different companies so unlike breaks the 48 hour average is not easily spotted by people who download your card, consequently it’s almost unenforceable by anyone except the company you work for.
tachograph:
ash 001:
thank you for the reply tachograph much appreciated, basically I will obviously comply with breaks ect but my concern is the average week of 48 hours will that come up on my tacho if I exceed and I am employed by dhl and driving for next so its house deliveries so doubt I will clock up more then 9 hours driving time in a dayThe 48 hour week is an average over the reference period which is usually either 17 or 26 weeks, only working time is calculated in the 48 hour average, POA and breaks do not count towards the average working time.
The company should keep a record of your average hours and tell you if you need to reduce your weekly hours near the end of the reference period.
Using break and POA some drivers manage to clock up 70/80 hours a week so you can see going over 48 hours duty time can easily be done legally
Don’t fret over the 48 hour average, the company should keep you straight if they’re concerned about it.
The reference period can start and finish at different dates on different companies so unlike breaks the 48 hour average is not easily spotted by people who download your card, consequently it’s almost unenforceable by anyone except the company you work for.
ok thank you very much for covering that for me I fully understand now that’s the only thing I was worried about I will obviously take the adequate breaks that I need to stay in regulations and not cause infringement’s on my card, was I correct about the speeding infringement 10% + 2 ?
Most agencys also get you to sign an opt out for the 48 hour working week so it doesn’t seem to me to be something set in stone. More a way for employees to have a way of telling their bosses to get lost if they try to get them to work more hours than they want. That’s how that particular law seems to me anyways
ahh sweet if I can opt out that would be even better I would love that
I think you’re getting the speeding figures mixed up with the advisory speed camera allowances, while speeding is an offence under the road traffic act that you can obviously be prosecuted/fined for it’s not a driver infringement as such.
TheTrogFather:
Most agencys also get you to sign an opt out for the 48 hour working week
Legally there is no opt out of the average 48 hour week for HGV/PCV drivers on EU regulations, some agencies would get you to opt out of the drivers regulations if they thought you’d go for it
ash 001:
ahh sweet if I can opt out that would be even better I would love that
Yes but you can’t so tough luck