i still find it amazing that drivers are so clueless about awr! and even more so about umbrella companies they have been around years!
war1974:
i still find it amazing that drivers are so clueless about awr! and even more so about umbrella companies they have been around years!
Some of us haven’t needed to know, and are only doing itout of necessity.
Muckaway:
war1974:
i still find it amazing that drivers are so clueless about awr! and even more so about umbrella companies they have been around years!Some of us haven’t needed to know, and are only doing itout of necessity.
Fair enough, but I would have researched ‘Umbrella Companies’ before signing up !
I recently lost my job after 10 years so went to a couple of agencies expecting things to be as they were 10 years ago !
I didn’t realise how things had changed regarding all the new legislation for Agencies and Agency workers.
I went to Driver Hire, updated my details which they had from years ago, discussed work, pay rates, availability for work, did the questionaire and then finally the bloke pulls out the file from the Umbrella company expecting me to sign right there and then !
Told him I was not signing and would be back intouch when I had ‘thought about it’ (done some research).
It starts getting confusing as some agencies expect you to be a ‘Limited Company’ or ‘Self Employed/Sole Trader’ before offering you work unless you only want 1 day a week (they are willing to do the PAYE thing here). Others talk about not being ‘Self Employed/Sole Trader’ but still having to use an ‘Umbrella Company’ like Nova.
I’m still confused as I was always used to the ‘old fashioned way’ of doing Agency work !!
Personally, I’m thinking of going Self Employed/Sole Trader and letting potential customers know what ‘my rates’ are.
I will try and sort everything out myself regarding expenses/taxes negating the need to be ripped of by an Umbrella company though I do understand I will still probably need the services of an accountant.
Any thoughts or decent links regarding how to go about this properly would be appreciated, thanks.
sorry to dig this thread back up but I was wondering a few things about the 12week rule
as long as I work in the same place for at least 1 day in a week then that counts as a full week
and it doesn’t have to be 12 continuous weeks - there can be some weeks when I’m not doing any shifts for that company at all - are these both correct?
curious to how it works with what the agency charge the client too - once the 12 weeks is completed and you apply for parity pay do the agency charge the hirer a different rate for you compared to other agency drivers who have not completed the 12 weeks?
If you only work one day a week - paying £27-£35pw for your umbrella is going to be damned expensive as a percentage of your weekly wage!
The only place I know of that pays significantly higher wages if still working via agency after 12 weeks is Royal Mail.
There are many employers who’s full timer wage is LESS than what agency get straight out the gate - so staying there over 12 weeks might get you a pay cut if you push it!
Best examples of this are Stobarts and Nobbies. 
They charge about £7 if you only do 1 day. The 12 week rule doesn’t apply when you work through the umbrella company tho…
Where I am just now their hourly rate is 90p more than the agency but the overtime rate is £4.50 more, so makes a difference on the longer days
daffyd:
as long as I work in the same place for at least 1 day in a week then that counts as a full week
and it doesn’t have to be 12 continuous weeks - there can be some weeks when I’m not doing any shifts for that company at all - are these both correct?
Yes the period will count as long as you do at least one week and there’s not a long period when you’re not there. The odd missing week doesn’t count as a break. Any time spent there under the umbrella company will be discounted. However make sure that Driver Hire are not using the Swedish Derogation. If they are then the whole 12 week thing doesn’t apply at all however they have to pay you when there’s no work.
GasGas:
My advice is to STAY OUT of the umbrella schemes.Be a SOLE TRADER.
You just have to fill in a simple four-page TAX FORM once a year. You don’t have to be an accountant to do this. I’ve got CSE grade 2 maths and I can do it.
You can offset all sorts of expenses, including your lunch, your workboots, a nice coat, a torch, hard hat, hi viz, gloves, truck parking, driving your car to the various places where you work, interest paid when you go overdrawn, credit card interest and so on, against your taxable income.Just keep receipts for everything and add them up at the end of the month.
You soon realise how self-employed people can drink Costa Coffee at £2.50 a cup…the tax man is paying for most of it!
The umbrella company will claim all this on your behalf (very kind of them) then KEEP nearly all of IT.
Don’t let 'em get away with it.
How do you go sole trader?
Best thing to do is cut out the agency altogether and go direct to small or mid size. Company. Which will mean no agency or umbrella but you will need to set up as a ltd
Radar19:
How do you go sole trader?
Pick up phone to HMRC Self Employed Helpline, register as self employed. You’ll need your NI number, the name you want to trade under and the type of business it is. Job done, you’re now a sole trader. You’ll get Class 2 NIC bills every 6 months and a self assessment once a year which you can do online.
alix776:
Best thing to do is cut out the agency altogether and go direct to small or mid size. Company. Which will mean no agency or umbrella but you will need to set up as a ltd
I managed to do that quite successfully as a sole trader. Companies tend not to care that you’re not Ltd/umbrella unlike agencies. Agencies want you Ltd/umbrella because they know they’re technically as close to tax evasion as its possible to get so want to cover their backsides.
Isn’t insurance to drive the trucks a problem if not through agency?
Where I am just now is a huge company and you either need to be employed by them or have your own insurance (which would cost too much unless you could supply a few drivers, basically set up your own agency) to legally drive for them.
Please tell me if this is wrong admit could open up some opportunities!
daffyd:
Isn’t insurance to drive the trucks a problem if not through agency?
You don’t insure the truck. The company you drive for insures it. Pretty much every policy at every haulier I’ve been at has “any employee or anyone acting on instructions of the policyholder.”
Driver Neg insurance doesn’t exist.
Where I am just now is a huge company and you either need to be employed by them or have your own insurance (which would cost too much unless you could supply a few drivers, basically set up your own agency) to legally drive for them.
Are you sure you need your own insurance? Do you mean public liability because thats only a hundred quid or so.
I never needed any for the vehicle. Arla Foods was my biggest customer.
I asked before but they said I’d have to be employed by them or have own insurance. They used to have a sub contractor supplying drivers at a lower rate than the agency but had to stop that as apparently they weren’t insured.
Not sure how much they looked in to it though.
That would be Down to the companies insurance policy as a driver you can’t insure a truck unless you have an olicence. Yiy drive the truck on the companies insurance they would be classed as casual staff on the insurance policy unless they went named drivers only