Driver Fatigue

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

Was coming clockwise around the M25 at around 05:20 this morning, and found myself behind an ASDA double decker weaving all around the road…

When he weaved the first time, I thought he might have been distracted by his phone, or something similar.
…But then he kept doing it. Brake lights now coming on the startled overtaking traffic in lane two…

Come up to a bridge with the wall, and driver swerves right into lane two again passing J28…
Cuts in very late at the lane drop at J29…

Meanwhile, other artics are zooming past me (who’s dropped a couple of clicks…) apparently unaware of what is happening right before their eyes.

The gantry signs come on. “Report of an Obstruction”… and I’m wondering if someone has reported this “weaving about juggernaut”…?
…But a minute later - they get switched off again. ■■?

Get down to the A13 lane drop, and one again driver swerves in at last moment, causing traffic to brake hard as he gets into lane 2 to pass the offslip at J30/31.

…Then finally at the bottom of the incline to the Dartford Bridge, - he ploughs into the cones near where the ■■■■■■ vehicles sit, which must have woken him up at last - because he drove perfectly over the bridge itself.

The point I’m making here, is "How far would YOU let fatigue go - before you insisted upon pulling up, even under a motorway bridge - for a kip?

I’m assuming of course that this guy isn’t illegally over their hours, so if “too tired to drive” - must merely be guilty of “burning the candle at both ends”?

(Up all previous day, then comes to work for a night shift, only to find that being a supermarket, he got planned for a 15 hour shift?)

Discuss.

2

Pull over when I think I’m dangerous. Put phone on airplane mode so they can’t call me. Set an alarm for two hours and go to sleep. I’ve done it a few times. If asked about it I’d tell the truth. But I’ve never been challenged. When working nights I’ll often have a kip at a loading/unloading point and simply say I was made to wait if challenged.

I fell asleep once driving a truck. Only for a few seconds. It’s something I will never do again.

3

sammym:
Pull over when I think I’m dangerous. Put phone on airplane mode so they can’t call me. Set an alarm for two hours and go to sleep. I’ve done it a few times. If asked about it I’d tell the truth. But I’ve never been challenged. When working nights I’ll often have a kip at a loading/unloading point and simply say I was made to wait if challenged.

I fell asleep once driving a truck. Only for a few seconds. It’s something I will never do again.

Can you still get pro plus it worked in its day now I think its that red bull crap not as good as pro plus it has to be hard driving nights you would be trying to make time for family and also try to get kip not easy

4

You should have phoned the old bill & told them the score m8.

5

Noeleen:

sammym:
Pull over when I think I’m dangerous. Put phone on airplane mode so they can’t call me. Set an alarm for two hours and go to sleep. I’ve done it a few times. If asked about it I’d tell the truth. But I’ve never been challenged. When working nights I’ll often have a kip at a loading/unloading point and simply say I was made to wait if challenged.

I fell asleep once driving a truck. Only for a few seconds. It’s something I will never do again.

Can you still get pro plus it worked in its day now I think its that red bull crap not as good as pro plus it has to be hard driving nights you would be trying to make time for family and also try to get kip not easy

Yeah you can. However I’m not sure obscene amounts of caffeine is the answer. It’s not good for you - and eventually you will still crash.

I just go with pulling over and head down for an hour or two.

6

Always driven on nights, and it doesn’t really happen to me anymore. But I remember one occasion when I began driving where I fell asleep for about half a second clockwise by heathrow at 6am. I’d veered into lane 2, and luckily it was empty. Around the same time I was heading down the A43 towards J15a Northampton, and was only half hour from home, but doing the old slapping myself to stay awake thing. I was so fatigued I halucinated and saw cones blocking my path with a ‘road closed’ sign. I ‘ploughed’ into the imaginary cones and that woke me up for the last 10 minutes back to the yard.

Ever since those days I pull over for 15 or 20 mins and set my alarm if I feel too tired to drive, but that’s rare these days.

7

ezydriver:
Always driven on nights, and it doesn’t really happen to me anymore. But I remember one occasion when I began driving where I fell asleep for about half a second clockwise by heathrow at 6am. I’d veered into lane 2, and luckily it was empty. Around the same time I was heading down the A43 towards J15a Northampton, and was only half hour from home, but doing the old slapping myself to stay awake thing. I was so fatigued I halucinated and saw cones blocking my path with a ‘road closed’ sign. I ‘ploughed’ into the imaginary cones and that woke me up for the last 10 minutes back to the yard.

Ever since those days I pull over for 15 or 20 mins and set my alarm if I feel too tired to
drive, but that’s rare these days.

I myself think its a very hard job to do night work i would think you would have to have a strict routine and if you go out of it for any reason you play catch up and thats why you just might fall asleep

8

Noeleen:

ezydriver:
Always driven on nights, and it doesn’t really happen to me anymore. But I remember one occasion when I began driving where I fell asleep for about half a second clockwise by heathrow at 6am. I’d veered into lane 2, and luckily it was empty. Around the same time I was heading down the A43 towards J15a Northampton, and was only half hour from home, but doing the old slapping myself to stay awake thing. I was so fatigued I halucinated and saw cones blocking my path with a ‘road closed’ sign. I ‘ploughed’ into the imaginary cones and that woke me up for the last 10 minutes back to the yard.

Ever since those days I pull over for 15 or 20 mins and set my alarm if I feel too tired to
drive, but that’s rare these days.

I myself think its a very hard job to do night work

It’s all I’ve known mate. If I went on days I think I’d die from the culture shock lol.

9

ezydriver:
I was so fatigued I halucinated and saw cones blocking my path with a ‘road closed’ sign. I ‘ploughed’ into the imaginary cones…

I ploughed into the back of a broken down car once, heard the smashing of glass and gouging of metal and plastic, I still don’t know whether it was hallucinations from fatigue or one of those ghostly encounters of something that happened many years before, but I remember it every time I travel along that road.

10

Our place is quite good with this, it doesn’t harass drivers who pull over. Of course there’s always one who abuses the company’s goodwill and stops for an hour every night. Hourly paid so boosts wages up a bit. They got called into the office and were told that while they are free to do what they wish in there own time, they have a responsibility to be fit for work.

11

I expect more drivers drive about fatigued than admit it, especially shift drivers. Silly start times, not enough sleep, long hours… it’s a recipe for it. Not uncommon to see blokes sparking out the minute they shut their eyes in the waiting room, often get in the wagon after the night driver to see they have had the windows cracked for the journey back, talk of ProPlus and Red Bull to get through a shift. Hardly reassuring.

12

Because I’ve been driving nights for a quarter of a century now, - I’ve got as used to it as I am able to.
I used to drink Lucozade all the time, but I’ve switched to the sugar free variety now, as Sugary anything seems to make me feel ill as I press on past the big 50 age. “Sugar Free Luzozade”, I guess doesn’t cut it’s original purpose any longer then.

I still have maybe one or two episodes a year when I’m out on the road, more tired than I should be.
Every occasion has been because I’ve been delayed for some reason, and am out beyond me having been up nearly 24 hours by that point.
Eg. I’m planned for a 6pm-3am shift, but delays mean I don’t get back until 9am. I’ve got the serious nodding dog, often when negotiating the multi-lane stretch of the M25 J13-J16 to boot.
Window wound down, keep moving in my seat as much as I am able. I’ve got no hope pulling into Cobham for a break, but Clacket Lane starts to clear out of overnighter drivers by around 5am - so I make do with there, albiet only half an hour out from base by that point.

There’s a strong argument there in favour of the “10 hours at night” rule. Problem is, if you pull up and ask to be picked up - WILL you be?
…Especially if it is a Friday Night, and it is YOUR weekend that is being wasted, if Gaffer decides to “leave you until Monday Morning”, not that such a stark scenario has ever happened to me yet, fortunately.

Personally, I reckon a better “solution” would be to ban so-called “Day Cabs”. FFS If you’re driving across the graveyard shift - then why palm driving staff off with a DAY cab?!
…If you’ve got a bunk - any old layby will then do!
Gotta make the roads safer than some lousy EU regulations which just throw more hurdles down for us all to jump over… :frowning:

13

rob22888:
I expect more drivers drive about fatigued than admit it, especially shift drivers. Silly start times, not enough sleep, long hours… it’s a recipe for it. Not uncommon to see blokes sparking out the minute they shut their eyes in the waiting room, often get in the wagon after the night driver to see they have had the windows cracked for the journey back, talk of ProPlus and Red Bull to get through a shift. Hardly reassuring.

This happens to me a lot. I really cannot hack it in “RDC waiting rooms”. I got banned from Site at Tescos Didcot - cos I left my (bunk) cab unlocked, handed my keys in, and then upon being told “It’ll be about 3-4 hours to tip and reload you, drive” - returned to my cab, and got my head down… Yard Marshal bod turfs me out of my own cab, saying it breached H&S laws etc. Upon arguing the toss with him (like I would do with anyone - you all know what I’m like!) I got told “If you do that again, you’ll be banned from site”. I didn’t go back in there for a few weeks, but sure enough when I did - got told “It’ll be hours and hours to tip and reload you drive”, at which point my action replay “run for the Bunk before you get spotted by the Nobbitz Dressingtischfuhrer” fell flat, when I was spotted attempting to get back into my deliberately left unlocked cab. :frowning: :frowning: :frowning: :frowning:

…So escorted off to the the waiting room, full of sweaty old hairy arsed guys from all over the hemisphere, the occasional set of keys being handed out by some Oliver Stone lookalike with a long stick with a magnet on the end… - spent about ten minutes in there, decided “F— This!”, and returned to my cab, having left the passenger window wound down, so I could climb up and let myself into the otherwise now locked cab without any keys…
Just got to to double figures of winks, and bugger me - Some female yard marshall kicks me out this time, and I get banned forthwith. :frowning: :imp:

ARRHGGH! :blush:

14

I know I keep banging on about this 15 on/9 off thing, but in this world of over the top H&S regs, how can driving a 44 tonner after as little as 6 hours kip, by the time you get showered fed unwind and eventually get to bed…worse if a non tramper having travelling to and from work time also… be considered reasonable and safe? :bulb:
Ok cue the heroes who say ‘‘I only need a couple of hours to start a 15 hour’’ (daily routine endurance excercise :unamused: ) but in real terms how the ■■■■ is it either H or S, ‘‘Healthy or Safe’’

70 or so hours also, …wtf is all that about, and NO it ''Hasn’t ‘‘Always been like that’’ either, before the heroes come back again.
The whole rule thing wants brought into Century 21.

Me and my Mrs were nearly cleaned up in her car by a ■■■■ log truck coming round a bend on the wrong side on Monday, …with a ■■■■ big gaping yawn on his boat, then a startled look when he woke up. :unamused:

15

If they’ve not done nights it could be really messing with their awakedness patterns. When i did occasional nights it really messed with my head and did fall asleep twice while driving, plus once on the way home. Seriously scary and had in theory had my sleep but 4am is deadly.

If you do it all the time it becomes normal and now i’m off for a week i can’t sleep through the night.

We likely need a new rule that you cant switch between hours such as days to nights without a significant period off in between. Will never happen however. Just blame the driver for being tired a.d carry on.

16

robroy:
I know I keep banging on about this 15 on/9 off thing, but in this world of over the top H&S regs, how can driving a 44 tonner after as little as 6 hours kip, by the time you get showered fed unwind and eventually get to bed…worse if a non tramper having travelling to and from work time also… be considered reasonable and safe? :bulb:
Ok cue the heroes who say ‘‘I only need a couple of hours to start a 15 hour’’ (daily routine endurance excercise :unamused: ) but in real terms how the [zb] is it either H or S, ‘‘Healthy or Safe’’

70 or so hours also, …wtf is all that about, and NO it ''Hasn’t ‘‘Always been like that’’ either, before the heroes come back again.
The whole rule thing wants brought into Century 21.

Me and my Mrs were nearly cleaned up in her car by a [zb] log truck coming round a bend on the wrong side on Monday, …with a [zb] big gaping yawn on his boat, then a startled look when he woke up. :unamused:

Well said rob … The hours done by most drivers are ridiculous and undsafe , The trouble is a lot of drivers do it voluntary and just want max hours for greed , financial reasons or habit , Employers take advantage of this and inflict it on the rest

17

villa:
The trouble is a lot of drivers do it voluntary and just want max hours for greed , financial reasons or habit ,

In the canteen last week I overheard 2 drivers talking - both trampers. One was saying how he had “no 15’s” left for that week, and musing on how he could find 3 hours rest at such and such a drop so he could get “another 15” in. And I reflected on this, and thought how sad it was. Humans are very good at becoming institutionalised. Perhaps he’s saving for something, or his wife needs some expensive life saving drugs, I don’t know. But I doubt it. He and many like him seem the sort who do this permanently. How very sad.

18

The driver could have been doing his first shift back from a break where his body clock is the wrong way around or had very little sleep or broken sleep.

Driving a truck nights is the worst job in the world when you are tired, myself I have driven nights for years and rarely feel tired generally on the long runs down Cornwall way, many drivers are getting on a bit as we know, lots of them have health issues and often have a poor diet and take no exercise.

All energy drinks should be avoided period, along with sugar and processed food bananas citrus fruit and a flat out singalong is the way to go, being fit means being able to cope with the nights eating crap and sitting on your fat arse you have no sympathy from me.

19

trevHCS:
If they’ve not done nights it could be really messing with their awakedness patterns. When i did occasional nights it really messed with my head and did fall asleep twice while driving, plus once on the way home. Seriously scary and had in theory had my sleep but 4am is deadly.

If you do it all the time it becomes normal and now i’m off for a week i can’t sleep through the night.

We likely need a new rule that you cant switch between hours such as days to nights without a significant period off in between. Will never happen however. Just blame the driver for being tired a.d carry on.

I agree with you about the “not being able to sleep at night” when on hols. My lowest ebb is around the morning rush hour, 8am-10am. I really want to be at home by 8am then, if I’m to avoid any fatigue on a regular basis. That’s just how my own body clock is.

When I was on agency about five years ago, I used to make a point of “getting up two hours before I went to work” if I was posted to a supermarket. Even then, I found that pulling a 15 hour shift having got up two hours before duty - STILL had me with the nodding dog, should I be knocking off that shift after 8am… BUT I also ran into bother when starting shifts at 15:00 to 17:00 - when attempts were made to palm me off with a “right through day rate” when still bloody working right through the night!

If I ever go back to supermarket work - i’ll hold out for a single 15 hour shift for a premium paid day, like a sunday or bank holiday - and that’s IT. No more bloody 3x15 plus 3x13 in the same week ever again for me. “I’m too old for thiss hit”. :neutral_face:

20

robroy:
I know I keep banging on about this 15 on/9 off thing, but in this world of over the top H&S regs, how can driving a 44 tonner after as little as 6 hours kip, by the time you get showered fed unwind and eventually get to bed…worse if a non tramper having travelling to and from work time also… be considered reasonable and safe? :bulb:
Ok cue the heroes who say ‘‘I only need a couple of hours to start a 15 hour’’ (daily routine endurance excercise :unamused: ) but in real terms how the [zb] is it either H or S, ‘‘Healthy or Safe’’

70 or so hours also, …wtf is all that about, and NO it ''Hasn’t ‘‘Always been like that’’ either, before the heroes come back again.
The whole rule thing wants brought into Century 21.

Me and my Mrs were nearly cleaned up in her car by a [zb] log truck coming round a bend on the wrong side on Monday, …with a [zb] big gaping yawn on his boat, then a startled look when he woke up. :unamused:

Its always been done and as long as you have plonkers who know no better it will continue there is no way to improve unless laws change then if that happens you will see a lot of workers in big macs with there arse of there trousers hanging out earning better money telling anyone who will listen that they use to drive 90 foot trucks