pierrot 14:
Nobody has bothered to mention that at the end of the 7 hour course is complete, your trainer or someone in the training centre has to upload the fact that you have been present and completed that module to DSA .
Did you know that VOSA have access to this information and should you get stopped by them and you don’t declare ,when asked ,what you were doing on said day , ie CPC course, and they then find out that it has been done on a day that you declare as a rest day, lets say a Saturday, they will do you.
It is classed as a working day, because it is training to do with your vocational activity, as is ADR courses HI-AB training etc.
but if you organised the course yourself and paid for it, its not classed as other work, vosa and the dsa should make a ruling on this once and for all
pierrot 14:
Nobody has bothered to mention that at the end of the 7 hour course is complete, your trainer or someone in the training centre has to upload the fact that you have been present and completed that module to DSA .
Did you know that VOSA have access to this information and should you get stopped by them and you don’t declare ,when asked ,what you were doing on said day , ie CPC course, and they then find out that it has been done on a day that you declare as a rest day, lets say a Saturday, they will do you.
It is classed as a working day, because it is training to do with your vocational activity, as is ADR courses HI-AB training etc.
but if you organised the course yourself and paid for it, its not classed as other work, vosa and the dsa should make a ruling on this once and for all
I did organise it myself and paid for it myself and did my first module this Wednesday just gone. I did it at the agency that I work for.
I worked during the day Sun, Mon, Tues course on Weds , worked yesterday and today, I must now take a weekend break on Saturday, you cannot use that Wednesday as a 24 hour break
I think that letter or reply from the VOSA representative is very misleading and badly worded, at the beginning they actually state that. "Driver CPC training should be treated as working time if the driver is instructed to attend the training as part of their employment. "
Well consider this , you are being instructed to attend as part of your employment by law, it doesn’t matter if you suddenly think “oh I’ll start my CPC next week and pay for it out of my own money” ,you have to do the training to carry on working after September 2014. Without the 35 hours completed you won’t be able to drive an HGV
pierrot 14:
Nobody has bothered to mention that at the end of the 7 hour course is complete, your trainer or someone in the training centre has to upload the fact that you have been present and completed that module to DSA .
Did you know that VOSA have access to this information and should you get stopped by them and you don’t declare ,when asked ,what you were doing on said day , ie CPC course, and they then find out that it has been done on a day that you declare as a rest day, lets say a Saturday, they will do you.
It is classed as a working day, because it is training to do with your vocational activity, as is ADR courses HI-AB training etc.
but if you organised the course yourself and paid for it, its not classed as other work, vosa and the dsa should make a ruling on this once and for all
I did organise it myself and paid for it myself and did my first module this Wednesday just gone. I did it at the agency that I work for.
I worked during the day Sun, Mon, Tues course on Weds , worked yesterday and today, I must now take a weekend break on Saturday, you cannot use that Wednesday as a 24 hour break
you can use wed as 24hr break. why not?? its your time you can do what you like, you happened to be on a course but you were not paid so not classed as working time
there will come a time where you will only be aloud to sit at home, not take the kids out in your car or go for a run, even make love to the mrs because it will be classed as other work.
Wildfire let’s do an example : you get pulled in to the VOSA compound J9 M25, and they do a check on your driving times, rest periods etc. you have just driven for 12 consecutive days within a fortnight between two 45 hr weekly breaks, except for the day in the middle where you e doing one of your CPC modules , he obviously thinks you weren’t working but checks the DSA information and finds you were doing a CPC course, he will tell you that you are running illegally, how do you explain " oh but I paid for it myself and it was voluntary " ■■
I would put my money on him parking you up there for 24 hours and giving you a large fixed penalty
Here’s another scenario :
Night trunker finishes work Tuesday morning about 4am , grabs a bit of sleep then at 9am goes to do a seven hour CPC course, finishes at 5 pm goes home gets a bit more sleep, then starts work at 19.00 hrs apart from being a bit irresponsible it’s Totally Illegal !! Because he has been doing a work related activity , even if he did pay for it himself and did it voluntarily , which in fact it isn’t because the law is forcing you to do it
I can’t see why some are getting so agitated about this.
If a driver wishes to declare the time he spent on his DCPC (that he organised and paid for himself) as work then he can.
If he chooses not to count it as work then that as well is up to him. If he gets caught and ‘done’ then it was his choice.
In the UK any time that is unaccounted for between records should normally be regarded as a rest period unless there is evidence to the contrary. If a driver has no chart for a Wednesday and tells VOSA he was on rest - I doubt they would go off checking further unless they suspected something. he could have spent the whole day Wednesday working as a Zoo keeper shoveling elephant ■■■■ - that’s not allowed either!
As a DCPC trainer I advise drivers that the day is work. What they do about that is for them to decide.
However - the letter from VOSA that has been posted does make it pretty clear and does also make sense. it is logical. Any driver that actually WANTS it to count as work - when he isn’t being paid is just diddling his own pocket. He will ultimately lose money.
wildfire:
there will come a time where you will only be aloud to sit at home, not take the kids out in your car or go for a run, even make love to the mrs because it will be classed as other work.
It’s OK with the mrs but not if you have to pay for it.
pierrot 14:
Here’s another scenario :
Night trunker finishes work Tuesday morning about 4am , grabs a bit of sleep then at 9am goes to do a seven hour CPC course, finishes at 5 pm goes home gets a bit more sleep, then starts work at 19.00 hrs apart from being a bit irresponsible it’s Totally Illegal !! Because he has been doing a work related activity , even if he did pay for it himself and did it voluntarily , which in fact it isn’t because the law is forcing you to do it
work related activity is definded when someone is under the control or direction of an employer and as such is being paid for
those said activities. so i doesn’t count, also your employer is not forcing you to do the course or the law. the compeletion of the driver cpc is the drivers responsability not the employers, if you don’t want to do it you don’t have too! but you will require a career change from september 2014
pierrot 14:
I think that letter or reply from the VOSA representative is very misleading and badly worded, at the beginning they actually state that. "Driver CPC training should be treated as working time if the driver is instructed to attend the training as part of their employment. " Well consider this , you are being instructed to attend as part of your employment by law, it doesn’t matter if you suddenly think “oh I’ll start my CPC next week and pay for it out of my own money” ,you have to do the training to carry on working after September 2014. Without the 35 hours completed you won’t be able to drive an HGV
ok so what if your employer says i am having nothing to do with this cpc he is not instructing you to do anything??
look at it like this, if you hired a 7.5 tonne van to move house over a weekend do you tell your boss monday morning sorry can’t drive till weds as need 45 hrs off i don’t think so
pierrot 14:
I think that letter or reply from the VOSA representative is very misleading and badly worded, at the beginning they actually state that. "Driver CPC training should be treated as working time if the driver is instructed to attend the training as part of their employment. " Well consider this , you are being instructed to attend as part of your employment by law, it doesn’t matter if you suddenly think “oh I’ll start my CPC next week and pay for it out of my own money” ,you have to do the training to carry on working after September 2014. Without the 35 hours completed you won’t be able to drive an HGV
ok so what if your employer says i am having nothing to do with this cpc he is not instructing you to do anything??
look at it like this, if you hired a 7.5 tonne van to move house over a weekend do you tell your boss monday morning sorry can’t drive till weds as need 45 hrs off i don’t think so
Point one : it’s not your employer forcing you to do it - it’s a legal requirement for you to have it to continue driving LGV’s after the beginning of September 2014, no DCPC no entitlement
Point two ; even if you hired a 24 tonner to move house, it’s private work, so you are allowed to do it in your own time, that does not come under other work, you don’t even have to put a card in
pierrot 14:
Point two ; even if you hired a 24 tonner to move house, it’s private work, so you are allowed to do it in your own time, that does not come under other work, you don’t even have to put a card in
I have doubts about that. Used to be the case, but not now. No such thing as private HGV driving anymore AFAIK.
pierrot 14:
I think that letter or reply from the VOSA representative is very misleading and badly worded, at the beginning they actually state that. "Driver CPC training should be treated as working time if the driver is instructed to attend the training as part of their employment. " Well consider this , you are being instructed to attend as part of your employment by law, it doesn’t matter if you suddenly think “oh I’ll start my CPC next week and pay for it out of my own money” ,you have to do the training to carry on working after September 2014. Without the 35 hours completed you won’t be able to drive an HGV
ok so what if your employer says i am having nothing to do with this cpc he is not instructing you to do anything??
look at it like this, if you hired a 7.5 tonne van to move house over a weekend do you tell your boss monday morning sorry can’t drive till weds as need 45 hrs off i don’t think so
Point one : it’s not your employer forcing you to do it - it’s a legal requirement for you to have it to continue driving LGV’s after the beginning of September 2014, no DCPC no entitlement Point two ; even if you hired a 24 tonner to move house, it’s private work, so you are allowed to do it in your own time, that does not come under other work, you don’t even have to put a card in [/quote]
thats what i am trying to say if its got nothing to do with your employer and he is not paying for your time to attend or paying for the course you do not have to put it down as other work
oh and you cannot hire a vehicle over 7.5 tonnes without using a tacho either but thats another thread altogether
If your doing this course volunterily and VOSA are saying it is not classed as other work, its not other work end of.
No one is forcing drivers to do these courses.
weeto:
If your doing this course volunterily and VOSA are saying it is not classed as other work, its not other work end of.
No one is forcing drivers to do these courses.
The law is forcing you to do it , it has nothing to do with the employer.
It IS an enforced requirement , it doesn’t matter who is paying for it
I’m trying to find the proof either on the DSA or the JAUPT web sites. I’ve actually contacted my course trainer about this and he has confirmed it is other work and cannot be done on a rest day
And as for the hiring of anything above 7.5t , I stand corrected, you used to be able to do it for private removals which was not for hire and reward
weeto:
If your doing this course volunterily and VOSA are saying it is not classed as other work, its not other work end of.
No one is forcing drivers to do these courses.
The law is forcing you to do it , it has nothing to do with the employer.
It IS an enforced requirement , it doesn’t matter who is paying for it
I’m trying to find the proof either on the DSA or the JAUPT web sites. I’ve actually contacted my course trainer about this and he has confirmed it is other work and cannot be done on a rest day
And as for the hiring of anything above 7.5t , I stand corrected, you used to be able to do it for private removals which was not for hire and reward
you have just answered your own question, it has nothing to do with your employer correct
so if it has nothing to do with your employment then it is outside tacho regs, thats like saying if you had to do a speed awareness course you would fill a tacho out
and i am sorry your trainer is wrong you won’t find anything on the jaupt or dsa site as tacho regs have nothing to do with them
wildfire:
you won’t find anything on the jaupt or dsa site as tacho regs have nothing to do with them
Perfect answer. JAUPT or DSA couldn’t care less - they don’t have any rules regarding this. it is only EU Rules or Working Time that will have anything to say about it.
I can’t see why it is such a big problem. if you want to count it as working time - do. if you don’t then don’t.
limeyphil:
the best thing to do, is refuse to do the course.
If every professional HGV driver in this country had the balls to refuse to do DCPC in the first place, then this country would have to think again because if no one could drive the trucks ■■? It says alot if VOSA, DVLA, JAUPT and whichever no mark government DfT SOCK COOKING helmet forces legislation on this industry don’t know what they’re talking about! No truckers = ( equals ) empty shops! Fuel protest won’t be needed! WE ARE ALL TO SOFT= NO BALLS! Just say no money making scam for above departments, justifying their jobs!
Fuel protest won’t be needed! WE ARE ALL TO SOFT= NO BALLS! Just say no 
money making scam for above departments, justifying their jobs! 
