Zac_A:
Whether or not there has been an improvement in road safety specifically associated with the introduction of DCPC, I do not know: I have some experience with statistics and I have a rightly cautious approach to them (as we all should have)
Hi Zac_A,
I too have a very cautious approach to statistics, because opposing camps can put (selected) true facts and figures together to support their views.
W.hat I was getting at was to get the country going again we need to dump things like FORS ,CLOCS ECT Driver cpc In my eyes the clocs and fors are like the mafia you need it to work ,no different to protection money I just do not think they make the job safer
dieseldave:
Zac_A:
Whether or not there has been an improvement in road safety specifically associated with the introduction of DCPC, I do not know: I have some experience with statistics and I have a rightly cautious approach to them (as we all should have)Hi Zac_A,
I too have a very cautious approach to statistics, because opposing camps can put (selected) true facts and figures together to support their views.
“Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics”. I couldn’t agree more.
In the life I had before being in the logistics industry I used to have to use and interpret stats on a regular basis, so I don’t accept them at face value. However when the information and reports come from the ONS I think we can be satisfied they’ve been through some expert scrutiny, whereas the general public will never be sufficiently interested in the in’s and out’s of how stats are put together (p values, sample size, the type of statistical test, whether the data has or has not been legitimately “transformed”)
Whether we love them or loathe them, stats are an fundamental fact of life, they’re what policy makers use to influence our lives. Anyone who wants to ‘influence the influencers’ needs to ‘speak the same language’.
My favourite view of stats is not the famous quote I’ve used at the beginning of the post: Nobel Prize winner, Lord Ernest Rutherford, widely regarded as one of our greatest ever physicists/chemists (on the same level as Einstein) and usually considered to be the man gave us our modern view of the structure of the atom, famously put down another scientist’s work by saying:
“If your experiment needed statistics, you ought to have done a better experiment”
tachograph:
As things stand at the moment, legally you will need to do the DCPC 35 hours periodic training (or initial DCPC mods 2 and 4) before doing the run, however as the DVSA are considering relaxing the rules for drivers who have never done the DCPC things could change at anytime.
I’ve never done my CPC but someone made a comment in another forum last week about just ‘doing’ your CPC online now… having seen this thread on the go, tachograph seems to suggest the same.
When I read through, it seemed that the online training was only to tick the 35 hours training box every five years. Am I right in thinking anyone who hasn’t held a CPC card before still has to go through the four tests? Tachograph seems to suggest it’s an ‘either/or’ thing at the moment?
My class 2 license only dates back to 2014, but if there’s a route to get CPC which I’m stuck not building stages it makes sense to take it!
Thanks
squibby17:
tachograph:
As things stand at the moment, legally you will need to do the DCPC 35 hours periodic training (or initial DCPC mods 2 and 4) before doing the run, however as the DVSA are considering relaxing the rules for drivers who have never done the DCPC things could change at anytime.I’ve never done my CPC but someone made a comment in another forum last week about just ‘doing’ your CPC online now… having seen this thread on the go, tachograph seems to suggest the same.
When I read through, it seemed that the online training was only to tick the 35 hours training box every five years. Am I right in thinking anyone who hasn’t held a CPC card before still has to go through the four tests? Tachograph seems to suggest it’s an ‘either/or’ thing at the moment?
My class 2 license only dates back to 2014, but if there’s a route to get CPC which I’m stuck not building stages it makes sense to take it!
Thanks
Sorry I missed this or would have answered earlier
If you are a new driver then you need to take module 2 and module 4 before driving. As a JAUPT registered trainer I am not allowed to train those 2 things. They tend to be carried out by the people who do your driving instruction and normally at the same time. The army haven’t been doing these bits with their drivers and so sending them out into the world without a full qualification
The only courses for CPC are the usual CPC courses done through conferencing software and intended for the driver who has held a CPC licence previously or passed their test before 1997
That may of not been explained as well as I would like but at least I tried 
squibby17:
I’ve never done my CPC but someone made a comment in another forum last week about just ‘doing’ your CPC online now… having seen this thread on the go, tachograph seems to suggest the same.When I read through, it seemed that the online training was only to tick the 35 hours training box every five years. Am I right in thinking anyone who hasn’t held a CPC card before still has to go through the four tests? Tachograph seems to suggest it’s an ‘either/or’ thing at the moment?
My class 2 license only dates back to 2014, but if there’s a route to get CPC which I’m stuck not building stages it makes sense to take it!
Oops, sorry I saw this post the other day but forgot to get back to it as I intended 
It’s not an either or situation for everyone, whether or not you need to do mods 2 and 4 depends on your situation.
You passed cat C in 2014 but if you passed the car test before 1997 you would have already had cat C1 HGV entitlement on your licence before the DCPC came into force in September 2009.
If you held any HGV entitlement before September 2009 but have never completed the 35 hours periodic training you can decide whether you want to do the 35 hours periodic training or MODs 2 and 4, personally I’d probably go for the 35 hours training but it’s up-to you.
However, if you never had any HGV entitlement before September 2009 (10th September 2009 if my memory serves me correctly) then as good_friend says you will need to do MODs 2 and 4.
So it all depends on when you passed the car test.
tachograph:
If you held any HGV entitlement before September 2009 but have never completed the 35 hours periodic training you can decide whether you want to do the 35 hours periodic training or MODs 2 and 4, personally I’d probably go for the 35 hours training but it’s up-to you.
I can’t agree more
I’ve just taken them as I am in the middle of taking my bus test and they were blinkin’ horrible. My instructor reckons that once you have actually done any driving it’s really tricky to pass the hazard awareness test. I passed but it took hours of practice and I normally can pass exams. Now just got show me tell me left 
Bri_8691:
Hi All,
I’ve not driven professionally for 13 years plus - originally passed LGV 2 and then 1 (although never used the 1 in employment) - I stopped pre CPC etc, - Now working in a small factory.
My employer has asked me to drive a hire 7.5t, (assuming he can get one) to go collect a piece of machinery he’s bought… (driving is not part of my usual job at all now)
This involves a 7 hour round trip of 440 miles.I know the rules are very different these days - can anyone tell me if CPC is officially needed, even for a ‘one off’ trip of this nature? I read (rather quickly) that there are exemptions, but I am not, in effect, driving for ‘personal reasons’ or under the 60(ish) mile limit i read about…, and all during the ‘lock down’ too…
The DVLA helpline was closed when I tried ringing … can anyone give clarity please? Thanks in advance…
Good news for you, You do not require a driver CPC.
Directly from the government website gov.uk/become-lorry-bus-driver.
You do not need it because driving is not the main part of your job. Also I don’t believe bringing back a piece of machinery he has bought would be considered commercial transport.
That’s my take on it anyway. Crack on and enjoy. A quick call to a transport knowledgeable solicitor would be a good place to get a definitive answer as too many varying opinions around here and a VOSA office would be probably worse.
I would disagree as you are driving for hire or reward as your boss isn’t expecting you to do it for nothing, hence you will need a CPC
@ Hurryup&wait
I also disagree, the driving not being his main job thing only applies when carrying materials or equipment the driver will use in his job.
He’s been asked to fetch machinery by his boss so it’s definitely a commercial journey.
Sent from my mobile.
Hurryup&wait:
Bri_8691:
Hi All,
I’ve not driven professionally for 13 years plus - originally passed LGV 2 and then 1 (although never used the 1 in employment) - I stopped pre CPC etc, - Now working in a small factory.
My employer has asked me to drive a hire 7.5t, (assuming he can get one) to go collect a piece of machinery he’s bought… (driving is not part of my usual job at all now)
This involves a 7 hour round trip of 440 miles.I know the rules are very different these days - can anyone tell me if CPC is officially needed, even for a ‘one off’ trip of this nature? I read (rather quickly) that there are exemptions, but I am not, in effect, driving for ‘personal reasons’ or under the 60(ish) mile limit i read about…, and all during the ‘lock down’ too…
The DVLA helpline was closed when I tried ringing … can anyone give clarity please? Thanks in advance…
Good news for you, You do not require a driver CPC.
Directly from the government website gov.uk/become-lorry-bus-driver.
You do not need it because driving is not the main part of your job. Also I don’t believe bringing back a piece of machinery he has bought would be considered commercial transport.
That’s my take on it anyway. Crack on and enjoy. A quick call to a transport knowledgeable solicitor would be a good place to get a definitive answer as too many varying opinions around here and a VOSA office would be probably worse.
I agree not needed it’s own account work not hire and reward and driving is definitely not the main job working in a factory is.
If it was delivering finished products once a week regularly to customers for example it would be a bit more of a grey area.
Will steed need tacho so will probably need to get a card.
Own Account Driver:
I agree not needed it’s own account work not hire and reward and driving is definitely not the main job working in a factory is.
If it was delivering finished products once a week regularly to customers for example it would be a bit more of a grey area.Will steed need tacho so will probably need to get a card.
How is this ‘own account’ work? He’s not delivering plant in order to do a job, it’s a one-way thing
He is driving for his boss (so paid) In a hire vehicle (paid for) during work time (paid for)
The only grey area I see is if they can get it in a vehicle lighter than 7.5 tonnes and then hope they don’t get stopped, which is unlikely at the moment.
If they really are unlucky and get stopped they can argue it out with the person stopping them as I doubt they know the definitive answer also (slightly tongue in cheek there but you get where I’m going I’m sure)
Driving without a CPC when you should have one is £1000 fine, or was the last time I looked 
Based on this scenario…you would require Driver CPC. The exemptions for Driver CPC would not apply.
…
Jocoh:
We run a 7.5 tonner for the movement of materials between two warehouses. It is not hire and reward as we do not get paid for this part of the service. The vehicle is rented. The driver is not fully employed as a Driver and this part of his day only covers about 2 hours. Following on from advice we were given from the Government our Driver does not need a CPC and has never needed it. The renting of a vehicle does not make it hire & reward. It only becomes Hire & Reward once you Hire the Vehicle & Driver out for a form of payment from a secondary source. Sometimes we have to run to a third party collection point but again it is for our own collection, and again cannot be classed as Hire & Reward. The original question is quite clear he is picking up something for the companies own use and really is no different from hiring a 7.5 tonner to move house yourself, all that is required is a Tachograph card for that.
Not true. There’s more than 1 bit of what you say that is wrong but the main one is that you don’t need a tacho card to move yourself.
Whether you drive that vehicle for 5 minutes or 5 months, if your work involves “collecting/delivering” for the purposes of commerce (related) then you need Driver CPC.
Private use: No Driver CPC.
Commercial use (in this instance) Driver CPC.
Don’t relay on calling the DVSA or DVLA. You are calling a call center and most of the staff are reading guidance of the internet. You can get a different answer depending on who you are speaking to!
good_friend:
Jocoh:
We run a 7.5 tonner for the movement of materials between two warehouses. It is not hire and reward as we do not get paid for this part of the service. The vehicle is rented. The driver is not fully employed as a Driver and this part of his day only covers about 2 hours. Following on from advice we were given from the Government our Driver does not need a CPC and has never needed it. The renting of a vehicle does not make it hire & reward. It only becomes Hire & Reward once you Hire the Vehicle & Driver out for a form of payment from a secondary source. Sometimes we have to run to a third party collection point but again it is for our own collection, and again cannot be classed as Hire & Reward. The original question is quite clear he is picking up something for the companies own use and really is no different from hiring a 7.5 tonner to move house yourself, all that is required is a Tachograph card for that.Not true. There’s more than 1 bit of what you say that is wrong but the main one is that you don’t need a tacho card to move yourself.
Actually you misread my post. I did say that you do require a Tachograph to drive the vehicle. As for the rest it is all open to interpretation
I suppose. Yes the safe way would probably be just get a Drivers CPC, but the company has been operating this way for the last 11 years without any problems.
Jocoh:
good_friend:
Jocoh:
We run a 7.5 tonner for the movement of materials between two warehouses. It is not hire and reward as we do not get paid for this part of the service. The vehicle is rented. The driver is not fully employed as a Driver and this part of his day only covers about 2 hours. Following on from advice we were given from the Government our Driver does not need a CPC and has never needed it. The renting of a vehicle does not make it hire & reward. It only becomes Hire & Reward once you Hire the Vehicle & Driver out for a form of payment from a secondary source. Sometimes we have to run to a third party collection point but again it is for our own collection, and again cannot be classed as Hire & Reward. The original question is quite clear he is picking up something for the companies own use and really is no different from hiring a 7.5 tonner to move house yourself, all that is required is a Tachograph card for that.Not true. There’s more than 1 bit of what you say that is wrong but the main one is that you don’t need a tacho card to move yourself.
Actually you misread my post. I did say that you do require a Tachograph to drive the vehicle. As for the rest it is all open to interpretation
I suppose. Yes the safe way would probably be just get a Drivers CPC, but the company has been operating this way for the last 11 years without any problems.
I think you’re misunderstanding what good_friend is saying 
You said you need a tachograph card to drive a 7.5t vehicle to move house yourself, driving a 7.5t vehicle to move house for yourself is private work for which you do not need to use a tachograph card.
hgvlgvtraining:
Whether you drive that vehicle for 5 minutes or 5 months, if your work involves “collecting/delivering” for the purposes of commerce (related) then you need Driver CPC.Private use: No Driver CPC.
Commercial use (in this instance) Driver CPC.Don’t relay on calling the DVSA or DVLA. You are calling a call center and most of the staff are reading guidance of the internet. You can get a different answer depending on who you are speaking to!
Not true whatsoever.
Hard to decide if it’s just a case of DCPC trainers claiming people need it in an attempt to drum up business or they just don’t know what they’re talking about - from experience I fear the latter.
Own Account Driver:
hgvlgvtraining:
Whether you drive that vehicle for 5 minutes or 5 months, if your work involves “collecting/delivering” for the purposes of commerce (related) then you need Driver CPC.Private use: No Driver CPC.
Commercial use (in this instance) Driver CPC.Don’t relay on calling the DVSA or DVLA. You are calling a call center and most of the staff are reading guidance of the internet. You can get a different answer depending on who you are speaking to!
Not true whatsoever.
Hard to decide if it’s just a case of DCPC trainers claiming people need it in an attempt to drum up business or they just don’t know what they’re talking about - from experience I fear the latter.
Yep I tend to agree with you. We have looked into this from many angles, and all the information that has come back clearly states that you do not need a Driver CPC if it is not Hire & Reward. And Hire & Reward is very clear, if you hire out a Vehicle for reward ( IE" Payment for services rendered ) then that constitutes Hire & Reward. And so Any Driver would need a Driver CPC. If you Hire or own a vehicle to move goods pertaining to your own company then that is not Hire & Reward. And as long as the driver is suitably qualified to drive that vehicle then you are breaking no laws.