dieseldave:
So, rather than having somebody teaching you how to ■■■■ eggs, there’s a very real possibility that (if you pick the right course ) you might actually learn something really useful.
You mean that if you will have to train experienced drivers, you might learn something from them? That’s reminds me my computer classes from my high school…
Hi orys, An ADR refresher is for drivers who have to renew their entitlement, so I guess that might count as they’re experienced.
Having said that, I’d be a poor tutor if I thought I knew it all, especially when it comes to areas of knowlwdge in which a guy has more experience than myself.
I know, I was teasing only, but your answer is good as usual. I could go for a course to you
Carryfast:
I thought that the (real) CPC was a little bit difficult but now I’m more confused by just reading what everyone’s on about here than I was when I first opened my home study pack 14 years ago.Anyway it took less than 14 hours of time out of my 45 minute breaks to understand what the national and international CPC was all about and I passed my exams first time just a couple of months or so after opening the books for the first time with no help from anyone.But this lot looks like an intensive course in Chinese and Russian language studies.What’s a DQC ■■ and what’s the connection between the CPC, ADR,PCV,LGV■■?.Maybe I missed the bit where they tried to tell us about the future issue of trailers full of immigrants.The question would have been something along the lines of wether a wagon and drag full of immigrants would be classed as a bendy bus regardless of wether it’s fitted with seats or not and would the driver need a tremcard which would account for any possible nasties carried by said immigrants.Anyway assuming I get back behind the wheel of a wagon in the future will my old real CPC cover me or do I have to try to understand what the xxxx everyone’s on about here for someone who only knows a world in which an HGV operator needs a CPC or a full time Transport Manager with one,but regardless of wether he’s an operator or not the driver of an HGV will need an HGV licence but may or may not need an ADR depending on the loads carried.
Hi Carryfast, I think you might have got the twp CPCs confused with each other mate…
The one you’re mentioning is the ‘operator’ CPC, which has been with us for many years.
The CPC being discussed in this topic is a new one called ‘driver CPC’ which is something else entirely.
You can read all about the driver CPC :arrow: HERE
I hope that helps.
Thanks for that but it’s just made things even worse.The question is the Grandfather rights being what happens in the case of a driver who’s ‘licence’ has lapsed but entitlement remains at 10/9/2009.I’ve still got my entitlement but my licence needs renewal by a medical as of 2003 which was when my C+E came up for renewal because of the medical.But for a number of reasons I did’nt get it renewed and according to the DVLA it’s just a case of get the medical done and get my C+E renewed just as I would have done in 2003.The problem is then that it looks like I’ll have to go back to school to learn my job or the licence won’t count when it comes to working?.So if you’re not going to haul nasties what is it that they need us to learn if that lapsed licence won’t count for grandfather rights?.However I did hear about some of this ages ago but the info then was if you’ve got a CPC then you won’t need a driver CPC.
Carryfast:
So if you’re not going to haul nasties what is it that they need us to learn if that lapsed licence won’t count for grandfather rights?.However I did hear about some of this ages ago but the info then was if you’ve got a CPC then you won’t need a driver CPC.
You were misinformed Carryfast. Dave is telling you how it is today. The Operator CPC has nothing in common with the poorly named Driver CPC. Your Operator CPC passes are still as valid as mine from 1984.
If you don’t carry nasties, how about a Hiab course? or a first aid course? or even a digital tacho & drivers hours course? we all need that one.
You can just pick 5 modules of 7 hours each. Rog will be here soon to tell you that you can do exactly the same seven hour course five times before September 2014
The best thing is, you cannot even fail these if you know your own name and can remember to turn up.
If you are an existing driver you will have ‘acquired rights’ as you already hold
a vocational driving licence (C, C1, CE, C1E, D*, D1*, DE*, and D1E*) on the
relevant start dates. Bus and coach drivers will hold acquired rights up until
9 September 2013 and lorry drivers until 9 September 2014. To keep your
Driver CPC and continue driving professionally beyond this date, you will need
to undertake regular periodic training.
Carryfast:
So if you’re not going to haul nasties what is it that they need us to learn if that lapsed licence won’t count for grandfather rights?.However I did hear about some of this ages ago but the info then was if you’ve got a CPC then you won’t need a driver CPC.
You were misinformed Carryfast. Dave is telling you how it is today. The Operator CPC has nothing in common with the poorly named Driver CPC. Your Operator CPC passes are still as valid as mine from 1984.
If you don’t carry nasties, how about a Hiab course? or a first aid course? or even a digital tacho & drivers hours course? we all need that one.
You can just pick 5 modules of 7 hours each. Rog will be here soon to tell you that you can do exactly the same seven hour course five times before September 2014
The best thing is, you cannot even fail these if you know your own name and can remember to turn up.
If you are an existing driver you will have ‘acquired rights’ as you already hold
a vocational driving licence (C, C1, CE, C1E, D*, D1*, DE*, and D1E*) on the
relevant start dates. Bus and coach drivers will hold acquired rights up until
9 September 2013 and lorry drivers until 9 September 2014. To keep your
Driver CPC and continue driving professionally beyond this date, you will need
to undertake regular periodic training.
Thanks again.That all sounds like the usual mixture of logic and confusion which has always applied in the industry so no problem.It sounds like the Grandfather rights this time are’nt the same as the ones which applied when the HGV test came in and which most of the old drivers had when I started out.Those rights lasted permenantly.With these it seems that they’ll run out anyway in a few years so it does’nt seem to matter much.It still seems a pain that we’re all going to be lumbered with something which we did’nt have to do before.(Or pay for).
Carryfast:
Thanks for that but it’s just made things even worse.The question is the Grandfather rights being what happens in the case of a driver who’s ‘licence’ has lapsed but entitlement remains at 10/9/2009.I’ve still got my entitlement but my licence needs renewal by a medical as of 2003 which was when my C+E came up for renewal because of the medical.But for a number of reasons I did’nt get it renewed and according to the DVLA it’s just a case of get the medical done and get my C+E renewed just as I would have done in 2003.The problem is then that it looks like I’ll have to go back to school to learn my job or the licence won’t count when it comes to working?.So if you’re not going to haul nasties what is it that they need us to learn if that lapsed licence won’t count for grandfather rights?.However I did hear about some of this ages ago but the info then was if you’ve got a CPC then you won’t need a driver CPC.
Hi Carryfast, ‘Grandfather rights’ are a concept that applies to many new qualifications.
The operator CPC had grandfather rights when it first came out as did the ‘old’ HGV licence. It works to allow those with demonstrable experience to dodge the ‘new’ training requirements when a new qualification starts.
Another example is the grandfather rights given to those who passed their car driving test before 01/01/97, who may continue to drive 7.5t (Cat C1) whereas those who passed after that date don’t get that entitlement.
The same concept applies to driver CPC in that those with an LGV licence before 10/09/09 get ‘grandfathered’ and only need 35hours of periodic training, whereas those who pass after that date will be the first ones caught in the net.
So what does all this mean for you?
If you get your medical done, I reckon you’ll still be counted as a granddad.
dieseldave:
So what does all this mean for you?
If you get your medical done, I reckon you’ll still be counted as a granddad
dieseldave is spot on.
The aquired (grandfather) rights for the LGV driver cpc are for those who have passed their test before 10 Sept 2009 which you have.
Those aquired driver cpc rights are valid until 9 Sept 2014.
To be allowed to be paid to drive LGVs after 9 Sept 2014 the you must have completed the 35 hours of Driver cpc periodic attendance training.
dieseldave:
So what does all this mean for you?
If you get your medical done, I reckon you’ll still be counted as a granddad
dieseldave is spot on.
The aquired (grandfather) rights for the LGV driver cpc are for those who have passed their test before 10 Sept 2009 which you have.
Those aquired driver cpc rights are valid until 9 Sept 2014.
To be allowed to be paid to drive LGVs after 9 Sept 2014 the you must have completed the 35 hours of Driver cpc periodic attendance training.
Thanks Dave and Rog.It’s great to see that logic has prevailed over confusion on that one.They’ve,rightly,based the Grandfather rights on test pass dates so that’s easy enough to understand.Every silver lining has a cloud though and I’ve still got to do and pay for 35 hours of training like all of the new lot but I’m now going to be called an old codger/git,like I used to call all those old lot when I was a new driver,for the privilege.Still I’m a lot younger than Ronnie Wood and being a grandfather has’nt done him any harm.
If not going to be LGV driving for a living after 9 Sept 2014 then you do not need to do any periodic driver cpc training - many on here will either be retired at or before then or have made the decision not to persue their careers in LGV driving after that date.
if you’ve got a CPC then you won’t need a driver CPC.
this was asked by one of our guy’s and he was told that u still need to do drivers cpc.
and also if you think that because u retire in 1 day or 1 yr from sept 10th that u won’t have to do any of the cpc then sorry you do need to.we did ask
kitkat:
this was asked by one of our guy’s and he was told that u still need to do drivers cpc.
Hi kitkat, Once we remember that there are two completely unrelated CPCs, things become clearer…
The operator CPC is ‘for life,’ whereas the driver CPC needs to be periodically updated to retain the right to drive, but this has no connection with a driving licence. The driver CPC is to do with being allowed to work in the profession of a commercial driver.
kitkat:
and also if you think that because u retire in 1 day or 1 yr from sept 10th that u won’t have to do any of the cpc then sorry you do need to.we did ask
That will depend on which “Sept 10th” you mean…
A driver who holds an existing LGV licence stemming from an LGV test taken up to Sept 9th 2009 is ‘grandfathered’ and may continue as they are until Sept 2014. AFTER that date, our driver must be in possession of a DQC card that proves 35hours of periodic training have been completed. Sorry mate, but it seems possible that somebody has been misinformed.
From what I can remember of the way OPERATOR CPC works -
The holder passes the exam and then they are tasked with keeping up on new legislation.
If they don’t, the they are likely to land themselves in very hot water.
I’m sure dieseldave and others who know more about this can tell you if my simple explanation is anywhere near the mark !!
ROG:
From what I can remember of the way OPERATOR CPC works -
The holder passes the exam and then they are tasked with keeping up on new legislation.
If they don’t, the they are likely to land themselves in very hot water.
I’m sure dieseldave and others who know more about this can tell you if my simple explanation is anywhere near the mark !!
Blimey ROG, you’re spot-on. Did I really say that??
dieseldave:
The operator CPC is ‘for life,’ whereas the driver CPC needs to be periodically updated to retain the right to drive
That’s not fair. Why they think that we are forgeting what we are tauught and desk-jockeys not?
Hi orys, that because the operator CPC is set at ‘level 3’ and is a management qualification.
Managers are expected to be up-to-date, but there are several ways in which they can achieve this.
For instance, the RHA/FTA regularly run legislation ‘update’ type courses for managers, but attendance isn’t actually compulsory, nor is passing any further exams. A manager can choose whether to attend, but there’s no excuses available to them for not knowing the bare minimum of what’s expected of them.
The periodic driver CPC isn’t really to do with a driver “forgetting,” rather it’s to do with broadening a driver’s knowledge to make them more professional. (According to our European partners… )
I still reckon it’s a good thing that several established courses, such as HIAB/ADR/First-Aid, have qualifying hours towards driver CPC so that the drivers can gain a really useful qualification at the same time as gaining qualifying hours towards their driver CPC. As I mentioned earlier, this gives drivers an edge on others and possibly increased capabilities, opportunities and pay.
Driver CPC is win-win for those who pick the right courses to attend.
dieseldave:
The operator CPC is ‘for life,’ whereas the driver CPC needs to be periodically updated to retain the right to drive
That’s not fair. Why they think that we are forgeting what we are tauught and desk-jockeys not?
Owner Drivers are’nt desk jockeys.However with the way in which the goal posts keep being changed seemingly by the hour by Brussels and the Eurocrats then it does’nt really make any difference.We’re all in the same boat of trying to do an impossible job.I think I’ll just get an old KW and run it on Russian plates.
Hi Carryfast, You’re not wrong there mate.
Being an O/D certainly has its challenges, because being an O/D is somewhere in between being an employed driver and being a fleet operator.
I’d certainly agree that O/Ds are probably the hardest hit segment of the haulage industry when it comes to compliance with new rules and Regs.
Carryfast:
We’re all in the same boat of trying to do an impossible job.
That also goes for the training industry.
We have the situation where courses are already approved by the relevant exam body, but require a separate ADDITIONAL approval from a newly contrived organisation and guess what, yet more approval fees.
Carryfast:
I think I’ll just get an old KW and run it on Russian plates.
That might be a great idea at face value, but Russia does have something of a reputation for bureaucracy, which makes European bureaucracy look pretty tame.
Hi Carryfast, You’re not wrong there mate.
Being an O/D certainly has its challenges, because being an O/D is somewhere in between being an employed driver and being a fleet operator.
I’d certainly agree that O/Ds are probably the hardest hit segment of the haulage industry when it comes to compliance with new rules and Regs.
Carryfast:
We’re all in the same boat of trying to do an impossible job.
That also goes for the training industry.
We have the situation where courses are already approved by the relevant exam body, but require a separate ADDITIONAL approval from a newly contrived organisation and guess what, yet more approval fees.
Carryfast:
I think I’ll just get an old KW and run it on Russian plates.
That might be a great idea at face value, but Russia does have something of a reputation for bureaucracy, which makes European bureaucracy look pretty tame.
That’s that idea out the window then.You won’t get a GV9 for running at 90.5 kmh but 5 years in Ljubjanka for a puncture.Just have to try to run it on it’s own yank or Canadian plates then or stay in happy early retirement.
) you might actually learn something really useful.
I could go for a course to you 
Several of us have put ‘periodic CPC’ info together and included links to the relevant government websites in a post in the FAQ forum:
)