Sam Millar:
But in the new regulations below (from jan 2013 onwards), we can see that there is only 21 and one asterisk, insinuating that regardless of whether you sit a cpc or not, you still cannot sit a hgv test at 18.
mattgarner.net/upload/images/201 … /yJr2t.jpg
Someone tell me if I’m making a valid point or not? You could question why in the new regs page that the have included the two asterisks description at 18 but going by the minimum age box and the number of asterisks, it would seem HGV for anyone under 21 is out the window.
The DVLA web site is wrong - there should be a double asterisk against C and CE.
In any event, the DVLA web site is not the definitive statement of the law. The regulations on driving licences, ages and driving tests are found in the (much amended) The Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) Regulations 1999 (SI 1999/2864), made by ministers using delegated powers under the Road Traffic Act 1988. Unfortunately legislation.gov.uk, the free online reference for legislation to which I link, only carries the original version of delegated legislation such as Statutory Instruments, and does not incorporate subsequent amendments. Consolidated versions, including amendments, are only found in expensive subscription legal databases such as LexisLibrary, in Halsbury’s Statutory Instruments (a large and expensive multi-volume printed reference work that costs thousands a year to keep up to date, not least because it is produced by the same company as operates LexisLibrary) or expensive textbooks on road traffic law.
The changes for the Third Driving Licence Directive in January 2013 are introduced by a further set of amendments to the 1999 Regulations in The Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) (Amendment) Regulations 2012 (SI 2012/977). Though this makes matters somewhat opaque, whenever legislation is amended, the original paragraphs are never renumbered. Looking at the 1999 Regulations, it can be seen that minimum ages for LGV and PCV entitlements are set by Regulation 9(5) to 9(11). The relevant changes are found in Schedule 3 of the 2012 Regulations, in paragraph 8(f) and 8(g). Remember that these changes build on top of all the previous amendments, not the original legislation.
Putting it all together, the 2012 Regulations make four changes:
- the specific exception that allows those 18 or over to drive D1 ambulances owned or operated by the NHS is revoked
- the age for driving C and C+E “where the vehicle is being used by the fire service or for maintaining public order or is undergoing road tests for repair or maintenance purposes” is amended from 18 to 21
- the age for driving C1+E (combination MAM not exceeding 12t) is amended from 18 to 21
- the age for driving D (other than D1) and D+E (other than D1+E) is amended from 21 to 24, unless - “the vehicle is being used by the fire service or for maintaining public order or is undergoing road tests for repair or maintenance purposes”, or
- the driver was licensed to drive the vehicle before 19 January 2013 (i.e. those licensed to drive PCVs before the new rules come into effect keep their PCV privileges)
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The important thing to remember is that Driver CPC holders, together with those undergoing instruction for an initial Driver CPC test or practical driving test, continue to be subject to a minimum age of 18 years for all LGV and PCV categories. As such, these changes have little practical effect, other than forcing certain LGV drivers under 21 and PCV drivers under 24 to hold the relevant Driver CPC when they are otherwise out of scope of the Driver CPC regulations.
I suspect the first of the January 2013 changes reflects underlying change in the NHS. Patient Transport Services, which are the sole users of D1 ambulances, used to be run by NHS Ambulance Trusts and were usually the entry level job in the ambulance service. These days, they are more likely to be run by private companies under contract to the NHS rather than by the NHS themselves.
Those entering the ambulance service usually need C1 or C entitlement, as a typical emergency ambulance has an MAM of between 3.5 and 7.5t (typically a heavy van chassis is used) but less than 8 passenger seats. If the ambulance service does not run Patient Transport Services themselves, they have no need of D1 or D entitlement.
not good. Haha
