Now that the DCPC is here ,and here to stay probably …Do you think other trades should have some sort of licence… I work in a commercial vehicle dealership…Like any trade /job we have our share of idiots…Do you reckon some sort of professional licence would weed out the idiots ,and would you if you where an owner be more inclined to use a wokshop that had people with the equivalent of a DPCP,or do you reckon it would just be a money making exercise ,as in as long as you pay your money ,you will pass…I will say I would be for it ,if it genuinely got rid of the idiots ,ie the person who gets a job because he is a friend of a friend ,or its he only job I could get …Personally I wanted to be a mechanic ,and put 100% in to my jobs and take it personally if I get a comeback …Think it’s called pride…When I started an apprentice mechanic was a good job circa 79 
then again everything was truly mechanical back then…
norb:
Now that the DCPC is here ,and here to stay probably …Do you think other trades should have some sort of licence… I work in a commercial vehicle dealership…Like any trade /job we have our share of idiots…Do you reckon some sort of professional licence would weed out the idiots ,and would you if you where an owner be more inclined to use a wokshop that had people with the equivalent of a DPCP,or do you reckon it would just be a money making exercise ,as in as long as you pay your money ,you will pass…I will say I would be for it ,if it genuinely got rid of the idiots ,ie the person who gets a job because he is a friend of a friend ,or its he only job I could get …Personally I wanted to be a mechanic ,and put 100% in to my jobs and take it personally if I get a comeback …Think it’s called pride…When I started an apprentice mechanic was a good job circa 79
Yeh why should it be just us that suffers
Seriously though, I don’t think a money generating meaningless ‘qualification’ like the dcpc is the answer to improving quality and professionalism in real terms in any trade, a genuine qualification earned by proving ability is a different thing altogether.
I can only speak for transport, and in my opinion the answer would be to halt the dumbing down process that has gone on for the last 10 to 15 yrs, and make the qualification to become a driver unobtainable to knobheads with neither sufficient ability to do the job in a professional manner, or having enough common sense to tell them that you do not drive a truck in the same way that you drive a car which is one of the main reasons for bad HGV driving on the roads today in the UK.
teaching already has its Baker Days
for training
Plenty of jobs require you to have some sort of basic qualification, just go onto a large building site and ask how many different certificates some of the guys there have, seems you need a certificate to just turn up for work.
Not sure how useful some of them are at weeding out the idiots, probably compares to the DCPC.
I’ve got national & international CPC’s and had to pass tests for those.
No test on the DCPC so you can’t fail it, so it’s little more than a money making exercise.
It’s pushed the cost of HGV training up a bit so it may discourage some people and may even push wages up eventually.
Because there are no tests or qualities of its merit, it’s not worth the paper it’s written on.
You’re not a better driver, you’re not a better person, and you don’t get any more money,
If you go working any where else it’s worth nothing. (Not even the paper it’s written on)
How good are you after it?
Did you learn something from it? (Well we all do but its small things, like you should have known)
Welcome to Europe you suckers.
Updates / ongoing training is in many sectors …
Police ,Nursing, Fire, coastguard, Medical, Pilots ,Air traffic, all have on going and required training and most have to pass and exam to continue to work in the said areas…
So no we as drivers have not been singled out but with the ones with Grandfathers rights, we got off lightly.
I would still like to see a formal test in place for the basics, Drivers hours.
nick2008:
I would still like to see a formal test in place for the basics, Drivers hours.
I agree
There should be a compulsory 7 hour course done in every 5 years on the regulations with a proper test at the end of it and the same compulsory course done asap should the regulations have significant change
Failing the test should not automatically put the driver off the road but should kick in further compulsory training on the regulations to get the driver to standard within a meaningful time frame
ROG:
nick2008:
I would still like to see a formal test in place for the basics, Drivers hours.I agree
There should be a compulsory 7 hour course done in every 5 years on the regulations with a proper test at the end of it and the same compulsory course done asap should the regulations have significant change
Failing the test should not automatically put the driver off the road but should kick in further compulsory training on the regulations to get the driver to standard within a meaningful time frame
Why is everybody banging on about drivers hours as if that is the main problem with Transport and the dcpc?
OK I do know and accept that you do have to have at the very least a basic knowledge, and in the REAL world let’s face it you can get by with said basic knowledge. As for the more intricate details, ( even if only to avoid a fine)you can ask.Not everybody in this job has the ability to take in details of specific regulations or a specific subject to the standard of a trainee lawyer.
I have said it so often on here that I am even beginning to bore the ■■■■ off myself 
but the main problem of ‘Professional Competence’ (or lack of it ) is the standard of HGV driving ability in terms of safety, common sense, courtesy and empathy among an ever increasing number of retards that have managed to blag a license to drive a truck. These retards should be sorted by a months overall assessment by use of a monitoring camera ( which we should all have to do) to separate the drivers from the license holders. Then to avoid new ones coming through review the driver training courses …Only then we will have genuine Dcpc.s that are genuine in the true meaning of the qualification and get back to the days when driving standards among truck drivers stood out a mile in comparison to other road users…it was not THAT long ago 
How do you teach common sense?
ROG:
How do you teach common sense?
OK good point, so sort it another way, make it so the course is designed to disqualify those that do not have it from obtaining a HGV licence. I am not a trainer but surely it is not difficult to separate a potentially good driver from a complete cabbage.
robroy:
ROG:
How do you teach common sense?OK good point, so sort it another way, make it so the course is designed to disqualify those that do not have it from obtaining a HGV licence. I am not a trainer but surely it is not difficult to separate a potentially good driver from a complete cabbage.
The basic car driving test does not have anything for that because there is no sure way to determine who and who has not got a certain way of thinking
Those with an outgoing personality tend to lose concentration more quickly than those who are more introverted so does that mean we ban all those with a certain personality trait from driving at all?
What you are suggesting is that we introduce some sort of mind test for all drivers and to bar all those who do not get certain results
ROG:
robroy:
ROG:
How do you teach common sense?OK good point, so sort it another way, make it so the course is designed to disqualify those that do not have it from obtaining a HGV licence. I am not a trainer but surely it is not difficult to separate a potentially good driver from a complete cabbage.
The basic car driving test does not have anything for that because there is no sure way to determine who and who has not got a certain way of thinking
Those with an outgoing personality tend to lose concentration more quickly than those who are more introverted so does that mean we ban all those with a certain personality trait from driving at all?
What you are suggesting is that we introduce some sort of mind test for all drivers and to bar all those who do not get certain results
Rog, you know as well as I do that some ‘drivers’ today will never be drivers as long as they have an hole in their arse, a licence does not a driver make, and a good car driver does not mean he will be a proficient truck driver.
When you and me started there was a natural selection process, not everybody could hack driving a truck with for eg a manual box ( let alone a crash manual box) you had to be able to put 3 sheets on a trailer and be able to read a map, you had to be able to manage being chucked in at the deep end and be able to do the job without a guy at the other end of a phone doing everything for you except wiping your arse…as it is today.
I am certainly not advocating to going back to those days but dumbing down of the job has made it ■■■■ easy hence allowing the cabbages to get a license.
You are an instructor, if you were put in charge of counter acting the problem with a view to obtaining PROPER dcpc.s what would YOU do in terms of making real drivers out of course candidates.
is the problem really that drivers are so much worse now or is it because the trucks weren’t capable of accelerating/stopping/handling the way that they do nowadays? so it just wasn’t an option to drive like people do now?
daffyd:
is the problem really that drivers are so much worse now or is it because the trucks weren’t capable of accelerating/stopping/handling the way that they do nowadays? so it just wasn’t an option to drive like people do now?
Good points - there is also the pressure now put on drivers by their employers which was not so prominent years ago
I think there is a certain amount of rose tinted glasses, when people says about truck drivers of years ago.
I used to rent a property from a bloke who sold his haulage company in the 70’s and I’ve been working with a bloke who sold his haulage company in the 80’s, both say exactly the same of the drivers they employed then as I hear now. They had some good and some that weren’t so good, some were bloody useless, damaging vehicles and not capable of doing anything more than the most basic work.
It’s human nature to see the worse, but remember the best.
We don’t comment on the many drivers who quietly go about their job, without a great deal of fuss. But the knob who screams past you in roadworks virtually taking your mirrors off etc get loads of attention.
We remember the old drivers from when we started, we were youngsters and probably looked up to them as they seemed get into spaces that seemed impossible to us at the time, they might have even showed us the ropes, literally in some cases.
But I do think there are things that have changed for the worse, Big impersonal Logistic PLC’s weren’t as common. And agency drivers were unheard of. So as a novice driver you got a chance to work in a company and get taught things by experienced drivers. Mostly it would have been one truck per driver, so more reason to look after the truck. You weren’t just allowed, but expected to do basic maintenance tasks.
And as ROG said loads of pressure to get the job done, and loads of traffic to deal with, along with transport planners whose’ computer says you should be able to get from a to b in x number of hours. And customers who need the stuff now, because they don’t hold stock, but then can’t unload the truck when it arrives as they also don’t have the staff.
I think the DCPC was a lost opportunity, (from what I’ve heard, other Countries have put in place proper courses with exams at the end) but then it was always going to be the easiest, cheapest way of doing it. As the industry (or government) don’t really want a highly skilled and qualified workforce, they need as many drivers available as possible to keep wages down and the loads moving.
daffyd:
is the problem really that drivers are so much worse now or is it because the trucks weren’t capable of accelerating/stopping/handling the way that they do nowadays? so it just wasn’t an option to drive like people do now?
I had a Big Cam ■■■■■■■ in the 80s that was capable of going off the clock (no limiters then) but it didn’t necessarily make me drive like a ■■■■. Trucks do perform, corner and re act better now but the professionals treat those capabilities with respect and drive according to conditions and circumstances, the others do not, they drive like they are driving their cars without any thought and with minimal consideration.
muckles:
(from what I’ve heard, other Countries have put in place proper courses with exams at the end)
The full DCPC here in France has been in place since the late 90’s, The long initial course is known as FIMO (Formation initiale minimale obligatoire) and is 4 weeks to the best of my knowledge that has exams involved and I think you must gain a certain pass mark it also has to be done in one hit (willing to be corrected on that though) the 5 year periodic is 5 days (35hrs) know as FCO (Formation continue obligatoire) and generally here, it is done in 1 hit (certainly was in my case) that has a test at the end but it is considered informal and included 2 or 3 hours of driving, this can be slit into 2
It is just a refresher course, I have had to do courses pretty much throughout my life what ever job I have done.
I have a 2 day course coming up CAT excavator same will be for that just a refresher so no exam.
The FCO course I did pretty much everyone came away having learnt something, even if it was only about the digi tachograph
Must go, start work at 1.00 and it is a nice sunny day too
ROG:
daffyd:
is the problem really that drivers are so much worse now or is it because the trucks weren’t capable of accelerating/stopping/handling the way that they do nowadays? so it just wasn’t an option to drive like people do now?Good points - there is also the pressure now put on drivers by their employers which was not so prominent years ago
Everyone naturally reminisces about how things were better “Back in the day”…of course, some things were - lorry driving was seen as a career and there was generally more professionalism around.
To counteract this we have many more negatives. Now a lot of LGV drivers are doing it as a last resort or a quick/easy access career.
Personally I think sheer traffic volume around the UK is the biggest factor that has driven down professionalism - the roads are overcrowded and in a terrible state. More traffic = more bad drivers of all types of vehicles = more accidents, 30 years ago it used to be only the main cities whose roads were overcrowded - now it’s everywhere, towns, cities, motorways. Almost any journey comes with problems, even in the early hours it’s impossibly busy everywhere. Also distractions have to account for more problems, even if the driver is not guilty of using a hand-held device, he is constantly aware of ‘being monitored’ by his firm, Digi-card, DVSA, speed cameras, LEZ camera, congestion charge, bus lane cameras etc. This never used to happen - boss used to say ‘If you can…give us a ring when you get there, if you can’t…see you when you get back’.
Of course it’s not all doom and gloom - the vehicles have improved immensely, both in creature comforts & reliability, lets face it most are a joy to drive. However, this is nowhere near enough to encourage generally very reluctant youngsters into ‘doing their Class one test’ - again all the negatives above plus cost of training, DCPC, lack of funding, amount of steps to becoming said Class one driver (count them??) and the creature comforts are nothing in comparison to most teenagers’ well-equipped bedrooms - hence they don’t want to get up at 4 a.m. (what time■■?) to get into a tin box and drive it into a traffic jam.
Just a few thoughts - we cannot go back in time, but the professionalism many drivers used to display is dying out IMO, and it’s not all the fault of the driver - some things are beyond their control.