cav551:
There is one sure-fire way to stop this illegal trade in human beings and that requires immediate action from the International Court of Justice. No ifs, no buts, quick trial and everyone in the smuggling chain, however minor their involvement, swings from a rope.
That wouldnt bother them in the slightest - when was the last time they caught a trafficker anyway?me
Best way to put them out of buisness is to make it legal.
Monkey241:
Under the Dublin agreement how many were returned annually Franglais?But if a Dublin agreement could be made between states what’s the issue with a bilateral agreement? You know a bit like the several bilateral agreements we have with France on a number of issues…
It’s funny cos EU states with non EU borders are pretty good at preventing illegal immigration… France is less concerned with illegal migrants provided they’re trying to migrate elsewhere
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Dublin Agreement?
Franglais:
so we are sending back to France fewer (it was never many)
2019 we sent 263 to other EU countries, and from them received 714.
There were Dublin requests for about 3,250 out and 2,250 in for the UK. Notably less than most Western EU countries.
asylumineurope.org/wp-content/u … 9-2020.pdf
gov.uk/government/statistic … t-datasets
Can we negotiate a bilateral agreement with France?
I think so? So, why havent we I wonder? (Apart from the last Labour Gov falling down on the job obviously). We already have a bilateral fishing agreement with France dont we? Hows that going? Are the French happy with us, and looking forward to new talks with such a reliable negotiator as ourselves? In other areas have we been seen to stick to our word lately? Or am I being unfair? We have negotiated deals elsewhere. NZ, Japan etc where we do have shiny new deals, mostly same-as-copies/worse/indifferent but they are indeed deals! Like all agreements both sides will want something from it wont they? A “new deal” is not always a better deal in so many areas.
How good are EU states at preventing illegal immigration? “Pretty good” you say, although what “good” or “bad” is I don`t know.
EU had 125,000 irregular entries in 2020. The lowest for 7 years.
ec.europa.eu/info/strategy/prio … rcrossings
First half of this year a 66% increase on same period last year.
Is that “pretty good” or not?
JeffA:
idrive:
commonrail:
What do they get here…that they don’t get in mainland Europe?Hotels, cash, food, phones, a new identity etc etc
Not really - mainland europe has taken hundreds of thousands more refugees than the uk - germany took a million in one year - they have a far better economy than the uk.
I
They dont get cash or phones - they get 39 quid on a “payment card” for food.
So why,then?
commonrail:
JeffA:
idrive:
commonrail:
What do they get here…that they don’t get in mainland Europe?Hotels, cash, food, phones, a new identity etc etc
Not really - mainland europe has taken hundreds of thousands more refugees than the uk - germany took a million in one year - they have a far better economy than the uk.
I
They dont get cash or phones - they get 39 quid on a “payment card” for food.So why,then?
Im not sure they do - germany took a million syrian refugees in 2015 - what is the uk getting? 20 a day or something?
commonrail:
JeffA:
idrive:
commonrail:
What do they get here…that they don’t get in mainland Europe?Hotels, cash, food, phones, a new identity etc etc
Not really - mainland europe has taken hundreds of thousands more refugees than the uk - germany took a million in one year - they have a far better economy than the uk.
I
They dont get cash or phones - they get 39 quid on a “payment card” for food.So why,then?
They are probably readers of the Sun, Mail, Telegraph etc, and want to see the Unicorns dancing on the sunlit uplands…
The have heard about the free i-phones, people carriers, and luxury accomodation that Farage is always shouting about! 
cav551:
There is one sure-fire way to stop this illegal trade in human beings and that requires immediate action from the International Court of Justice. No ifs, no buts, quick trial and everyone in the smuggling chain, however minor their involvement, swings from a rope.
Stop feeding the chain.
Dont use cheap "hand car washes". Dont go to cheap nail bars that cant possibly pay a legal wage to employees, let alone NI stamps or taxes. Dont employ “cash in hand” builders or gardeners.
Don`t be part of the illegal economy that feeds these parasitic people smugglers.
Asylum seekers get more benefits from the state in France than here, £39.63 compared to £43.50 in France. They can also apply for work sooner in France than here (6mths regardless compared to having a successful application here).
They come because of language (English spoken world wide, french not so much) family ties (we’re a country that historically takes immigrants), but the main reason is the large black market economy in this country. Far easier for them to slip away and start earning better money within a few days then anywhere else in Europe).
So what’s the issue? They’re over here doing the jobs no English person wants, yet working in service sectors we’ve all come to expect as being readily available (car washing for example).
As an economy we’ve too many jobs for not enough people, it’s not just paying more that’s the answer to get the English to work - they simply don’t want those type of jobs, no matter what. And I’m not just talking truck driving.
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Franglais:
cav551:
There is one sure-fire way to stop this illegal trade in human beings and that requires immediate action from the International Court of Justice. No ifs, no buts, quick trial and everyone in the smuggling chain, however minor their involvement, swings from a rope.Stop feeding the chain.
Dont use cheap "hand car washes". Dont go to cheap nail bars that cant possibly pay a legal wage to employees, let alone NI stamps or taxes. Dont employ “cash in hand” builders or gardeners.
Don`t be part of the illegal economy that feeds these parasitic people smugglers.
Nice to see you can change your tune when I pointed this out a while ago you questioned as to whether I was correct in saying that these business’s were illegaly employing people
Mazzer2:
Franglais:
cav551:
There is one sure-fire way to stop this illegal trade in human beings and that requires immediate action from the International Court of Justice. No ifs, no buts, quick trial and everyone in the smuggling chain, however minor their involvement, swings from a rope.Stop feeding the chain.
Dont use cheap "hand car washes". Dont go to cheap nail bars that cant possibly pay a legal wage to employees, let alone NI stamps or taxes. Dont employ “cash in hand” builders or gardeners.
Don`t be part of the illegal economy that feeds these parasitic people smugglers.Nice to see you can change your tune when I pointed this out a while ago you questioned as to whether I was correct in saying that these business’s were illegaly employing people
So, what did I say then?
Mazzer2:
Nice to see you can change your tune when I pointed this out a while ago you questioned as to whether I was correct in saying that these business’s were illegaly employing people
I can find 55 posts where I mention “wash” and “car”.
Here are those I found about migrants:
“Regarding your question to Winseer about illegal immigrants being employed: any hand car wash stations near you? Work out the number of workers, and time taken per car, and some are on less than min wage without even looking at chemicals etc. They won`t be on the cards will they?” 26/10/19
“I have no insight into a migrants mindset etc, bit look around the UK for yourself: car washes, nail bars, cheap gardeners etc. So many in the UK moan about immigrants, but at the same time want a cheap car wash where the employees must be on less than the minimum wage, and happily pay cash to avoid vat, and so support the grey economy` and support more illegal immigration.”
31/12/18
“Regarding your question to Winseer about illegal immigrants being employed: any hand car wash stations near you? Work out the number of workers, and time taken per car, and some are on less than min wage without even looking at chemicals etc. They won`t be on the cards will they?” 28/04/18
When did I change my tune?
Ron jevis:
Asylum seekers get more benefits from the state in France than here, £39.63 compared to £43.50 in France. They can also apply for work sooner in France than here (6mths regardless compared to having a successful application here).They come because of language (English spoken world wide, french not so much) family ties (we’re a country that historically takes immigrants), but the main reason is the large black market economy in this country. Far easier for them to slip away and start earning better money within a few days then anywhere else in Europe).
So what’s the issue? They’re over here doing the jobs no English person wants, yet working in service sectors we’ve all come to expect as being readily available (car washing for example).
As an economy we’ve too many jobs for not enough people, it’s not just paying more that’s the answer to get the English to work - they simply don’t want those type of jobs, no matter what. And I’m not just talking truck driving.
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What’s the issue?
Apart from black economy jobs you mean?
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Franglais…sorry to have upset you with the bilateral agreement comment.
Puce isn’t an attractive colour.
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chrisdalott:
Monkey241:
switchlogic:
Demonising people is as old as the hills I was reminded while listening to this very moving programme last night. In some ways we haven’t advanced at all bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b01s37f3Internment was a logical step
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lock up 100 people based on the off chance that one of them might do something bad, and because they are foreign. its logical but would you treat English people like that ?
We weren’t at war with the English [emoji6]
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Monkey241:
Franglais…sorry to have upset you with the bilateral agreement comment.Puce isn’t an attractive colour.
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Compulsory Masks thread:
“Monkey241 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:14 pm
Mockery is no substitute for coherent argument.”
Who is (or should be) scarlet now?
Franglais:
Monkey241:
Franglais…sorry to have upset you with the bilateral agreement comment.Puce isn’t an attractive colour.
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Compulsory Masks thread:
“Monkey241 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:14 pm
Mockery is no substitute for coherent argument.”Who is (or should be) scarlet now?
No idea.
You’re confusing mockery with assumption. The tone of your response suggests you were agitated.
We’ll do satire shortly
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Franglais:
Mazzer2:
Nice to see you can change your tune when I pointed this out a while ago you questioned as to whether I was correct in saying that these business’s were illegaly employing peopleI can find 55 posts where I mention “wash” and “car”.
Here are those I found about migrants:“Regarding your question to Winseer about illegal immigrants being employed: any hand car wash stations near you? Work out the number of workers, and time taken per car, and some are on less than min wage without even looking at chemicals etc. They won`t be on the cards will they?” 26/10/19
“I have no insight into a migrant
s mindset etc, bit look around the UK for yourself: car washes, nail bars, cheap gardeners etc. So many in the UK moan about immigrants, but at the same time want a cheap car wash where the employees must be on less than the minimum wage, and happily pay cash to avoid vat, and so support thegrey economy` and support more illegal immigration.”
31/12/18“Regarding your question to Winseer about illegal immigrants being employed: any hand car wash stations near you? Work out the number of workers, and time taken per car, and some are on less than min wage without even looking at chemicals etc. They won`t be on the cards will they?” 28/04/18
When did I change my tune?
Granted you said “I agree may be a problem” rather than not a problem so I’ll give you that
Monkey241:
Franglais:
Monkey241:
Franglais…sorry to have upset you with the bilateral agreement comment.Puce isn’t an attractive colour.
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Compulsory Masks thread:
“Monkey241 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:14 pm
Mockery is no substitute for coherent argument.”Who is (or should be) scarlet now?
No idea.
You’re confusing mockery with assumption. The tone of your response suggests you were agitated.We’ll do satire shortly
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You are free to attempt, mockery or satire as you see fit. You carry on making any assumptions about my tone you like.
None of which are a substitute for coherent argument, as you correctly pointed out.
Mazzer2:
Granted you said “I agree may be a problem” rather than not a problem so I’ll give you that
`Nuff said then.
Franglais:
Monkey241:
Franglais:
Monkey241:
Franglais…sorry to have upset you with the bilateral agreement comment.Puce isn’t an attractive colour.
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Compulsory Masks thread:
“Monkey241 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:14 pm
Mockery is no substitute for coherent argument.”Who is (or should be) scarlet now?
No idea.
You’re confusing mockery with assumption. The tone of your response suggests you were agitated.We’ll do satire shortly
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You are free to attempt, mockery or satire as you see fit. You carry on making any assumptions about my tone you like.
None of which are a substitute for coherent argument, as you correctly pointed out.
You seem to bemoan the loss of the Dublin agreement under Brexit…but by your own figures it was far from a success.
I’m just not sure your point is…beyond an attempt to disparage the fact we have left
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Franglais:
Mazzer2:
Granted you said “I agree may be a problem” rather than not a problem so I’ll give you that`Nuff said then.
I had a conversation with a Gendarme about the clandestines in France trying to get to the UK. He reckoned it was because of the UK grey economy. Less chance of work for illegals in other countries than the UK.
I agree there may well be a problem with car washes, nail bars etc here. But is that a UK or EU problem? Have other EU countries had the same issues?
At the time though there was plenty of evidence that this was a problem rather than a ‘may’ this has been going on in plain sight for years yet no one seems to want to do anything about it and I agree that people cannot complain about illegal immigration and then use the very business’s that employ illegal workers