I hit you guys up for a bit of advice about a week ago about getting back into driving, thank you all. I took a refresher course and all went well considering, arctic reversing still needs some work.
Anyway I have signed up with an agency for now to get back into the swing of things, I did a double manned 19 hour shift on Saturday and on the delivery driver paperwork it said “Drivers after six hours take a 30 min break”.
So here is my question, I thought that you had to take a 45 min break after 6 hours work not 30mins? Have I got it wrong or is it different if double manning?
That’s to comply with WTD. But, unless you both did a great deal of “other work” rather than driving, you’re going to have your 45 min EU break first which then negates the requirement for the WTD break after 6 hours.
When double manning, the driver is obviously using slot 1 which will record all his activities. The 2nd driver uses slot 2, set to POA, and the first 45 minutes of this is treated as break.
The only reasons I can think of for that requirement being on the paperwork are
The paperwork is used by single crew drivers who are doing other work so may reach 6 hrs before the EU 4.5 drive break requirement
There was a great deal of other work apart from driving anticipated
The company is covering it’s back
It was stated inadvertently in error
I think I follow. The 45 min break is for driving 4.5 hours (which is what I am used to as i used to due trunking) but if doing lots of stop and starts with other work on a double man the 30 mins after 6 hours is all that is required. Is that about the gist of it?
As for it being on the paperwork then I think you are probably right, company covering themselves.
For 6 hours of work you need a 15 min break not 30
If multi manning when the card is in slot 2 on POA the first 45 mins or part of each time will be deemed as break so if in slot 2 for 15 mins between drops then that is a 15 min break for RTD and can be used as the first part of a split 15 + 30 driving time break
ROG:
For 6 hours of work you need a 15 min break not 30
Not quite right is it rog. …tell the whole truth not half of it…
If you work more tban 6 hrs you need to show a total of 30 mins that obviously depends on how the tacho is managed ie the poa and work is done along with shared driving
Peta - give us the breakdown of the shift if you can and then it’s possible to see what breaks are required and where. It’s possible, as you’re finding out, to get hopelessly bogged down in this. And there’s really no need.
ROG:
For 6 hours of work you need a 15 min break not 30
Not quite right is it rog. …tell the whole truth not half of it…
If you work more tban 6 hrs you need to show a total of 30 mins that obviously depends on how the tacho is managed ie the poa and work is done along with shared driving
30 mins for 6 to 9 hours
45 mins for over 9 hours
those are the total amount of breaks for the work done in a shift which is different to the 6 hour break rule
basically its a 2man run with 8 drops
Arrived at work 13:30
Other driver arrived at 16:00
drive start at 16:30 from Stoke on trent
to bristol - drop 1
bristol to a mall a bristol - drop 2
mall to Bath - drop 3 Break of 30 mins at 21:25
Bath - Trowbridge -drop 4
Trowbridge - Chippenham - drop 5
Chippenham - swindon drop 6 and 7 (2 in swindon)
swindon - Cheltenham drop 8
Chippenham - Base (Stoke on Trent)
arrived at base 10am clocked off at 10:30
I was driver 2 at the start. So I went on POA
Having not double manned before wasn’t sure how it worked.
We had a break of 30 mins after dropping at Bath at about 21:25 (knew I had to have a break before 21:30)
Switched driving at the 4th drop. switched tacho to break at Chippenham or Swindon (can’t recall which one).
Switched driving again after last drop.
I’ve arrived at conclusion it’s best not to probe this shift too deeply as it looks a bit suspect to me, from what you say.
You seem to describe a 16 hour stint of multi-manned driving, and an even longer working shift for you, and only 30 minutes break for each driver, and unless you spent most of it hand-balling the load and very little of it driving it sounds a bit iffy!
Can I suggest you have a read of this page, which explains multi-manning very well. Concern yourself with driving regs first, the WTD stuff second (as VOSA don’t care two hoots about it, though your employer has to pretend to)
A lot of confusion exists about multi-manning, and it is possibly best thought of as exactly like single manning except you can both go longer before needing a daily rest period, and there are rules concerning whether you qualify for this concession. Every other rule is the same, for example you still need to have not consumed your two 10 hour drives a week if you rely on a 10 hour drive for multi-manning, and you still need to take a break after 4.5 hours etc.
I also THINK that the 2nd driver has to start work within one hour of you starting work for multi-manning rules to apply, but am prepared to be corrected on this.
Every time you went on POA the first 45 mins or less or you were not on for the full 45 it is counted as break for the regs as long as the POA was at least 15 mins
I am having difficulty in seeing who did what and when
It’s hard to tell how the breaks should have worked from what you have been able to say about that shift.
It boils down to the same questions as normal driving:
did you clock up more than 4.5 hours driving without starting a 45? Did you swap cards and put tacho on POA when you did this?
did you do more than 10 hours total driving (assuming you have a 10 available this week)
You don’t have to answer - but hope you get the idea - MM is simply saying “if you qualify” you can defer your daily rest for longer. And when you sit in the other seat - make sure it is long enough on POA to qualify as a break (15,30,45 accordingly)
sorry cant remember what times we arrived at which drop and i didn’t write them down
when one was driving the other was on poa
we switched cards so that who ever was driving their card was in slot 1
the drops took anything from 30 mins to just over an hour - set as other work
longest driving stint was stoke to Bristol which is under 3 hours and other driver drove that stint
second longest was the leg back to base which was swindon to stoke and the other driver drove that one too.
I drove the majority between drops.
we took 2 x 30 mins, 1st just before 21.30 (as I started at 15.30)
the second at around 03.30 (ish)
Can you get a print out from that shift and post it on here?
With MM its very unlikely you will ever need to stop and take a break - that’s the idea of using MM - one driver has a break by recording POA whilst the other is driving
If there was between 15 and 45 mins between every drop then the driver using slot 2 on POA has recorded a break on each of those occasions
Double manning is a bit tricky to explain to people that have never done it.
Most of the time, the ‘rules’ get trotted out to explain how it works, but that’s how the laws work, not the people doing the multi manning.
If you do it everyday (as I’ve done for a few years on home delivery), you’ll soon realise that not stopping for an actual break is a pretty tedious day. Sure, some days you’ll skip taking an actual break as you need to get back in order to start the following day as the right time, and breaks-on-the-move allow this, but it all adds up, so work a 15 & 30 minute break into your day, with a 15 before 6 hours work and the 30 when you fancy relaxing for a bit.
In addition to this, our office would deduct 45 mins break from each driver anyway (from your working time) so take the break.
Incidentally, most of the time, on multi manning, you’ll find you’re doing stuff wrong when you get the infringements for it.
