Bobtailvw:
I have to ask, why does the second man need to be in the truck within the first hour?
In order to take advantage of the daily rest concession for multi-manning the regulations require a second driver to be present except for the first hour of multi-manning.
Article 4 - (EC) 561/2003.
‘multi-manning’ means the situation where, during each
period of driving between any two consecutive daily rest
periods, or between a daily rest period and a weekly rest
period, there are at least two drivers in the vehicle to do
the driving. For the first hour of multi-manning the presence of another driver or drivers is optional but for the remainder of the period it is compulsory;
Thanks for the reply but it makes no sense If a second driver was picked up 3 hours later what would it be called then?
Well I would call it double-manning or multi-manning, call it what you like but you would not be able to take advantage of the multi-manning daily rest concession unless there’s a second driver no later than one hour from the start of the journey.
In other words you would have two drivers both working to single manned journey regulations.
Tachograph - Does this situation then allow for the vehicle to ‘keep moving’ whilst non-driver takes his 45 minute break? Or does the truck need to be stood to count as 45 mins. break? What would happen with digi-cards? Would non-driver insert into slot 2 or keep it in his wallet until he drove (as driver 1)? Surely the truck can’t run for 20 hours constant (max.) as per double-manning?
Daz1970:
Tachograph - Does this situation then allow for the vehicle to ‘keep moving’ whilst non-driver takes his 45 minute break? Or does the truck need to be stood to count as 45 mins. break? What would happen with digi-cards? Would non-driver insert into slot 2 or keep it in his wallet until he drove (as driver 1)? Surely the truck can’t run for 20 hours constant (max.) as per double-manning?
well you need to stop to change card but yes the first 45 min of POA which is what the 2nd man position will record is counted and recognised as BREAK .
Daz1970:
Tachograph - Does this situation then allow for the vehicle to ‘keep moving’ whilst non-driver takes his 45 minute break? Or does the truck need to be stood to count as 45 mins. break? What would happen with digi-cards? Would non-driver insert into slot 2 or keep it in his wallet until he drove (as driver 1)? Surely the truck can’t run for 20 hours constant (max.) as per double-manning?
The second driver should have his driver card in slot two, when you change drivers you change the cards over so the current drivers card is always in slot 1 and the driver in the passenger seat has his card in slot 2.
You can legally have a break in the passenger seat of a moving vehicle.
With the card in slot 2 you cannot record a break because slot 2 automatically goes to POA when the vehicle is moving, so the first 45 minutes of POA whilst the second driver is sat in the passenger seat is counted as break.
Nothing stopping you running the first shift single manned picking up driver 2,on route then after your 9 off (daily rest) start a double manned shift from there
ROG:
Is the POA in slot 2 acting as break only when under mutli manning rules or can it also be when both drivers are under single manning rules?
I would say the first 45 minutes of POA count as break whenever there are two drivers available to do the driving and one is sat in the passenger seat with his card in slot 2.
Daz1970:
Tachograph - Does this situation then allow for the vehicle to ‘keep moving’ whilst non-driver takes his 45 minute break? Or does the truck need to be stood to count as 45 mins. break? What would happen with digi-cards? Would non-driver insert into slot 2 or keep it in his wallet until he drove (as driver 1)? Surely the truck can’t run for 20 hours constant (max.) as per double-manning?
The second driver should have his driver card in slot two, when you change drivers you change the cards over so the current drivers card is always in slot 1 and the driver in the passenger seat has his card in slot 2.
You can legally have a break in the passenger seat of a moving vehicle.
With the card in slot 2 you cannot record a break because slot 2 automatically goes to POA when the vehicle is moving, so the first 45 minutes of POA whilst the second driver is sat in the passenger seat is counted as break.
So the only difference apart from daily rest provisions between a double-manning shift & 2 x single drivers is when the 2nd driver boarded the vehicle.
i.e. If driver 2 joins at beginning or within 1st hour of shift = double-manning
OR If driver 2 joins anytime after an hour from when the shift begins = 2 x single drivers.
But they can still keep rolling 4.5 hours each then another 4.5 hours each? Or are they restricted to single spreadover e.g. 15 hours (max.) from individual shift start times?
tommy t:
Nothing stopping you running the first shift single manned picking up driver 2,on route then after your 9 off (daily rest) start a double manned shift from there
It is possible for 1 driver to be under MM rules and the other or others to be under single rules
As long as the specific rules relating to each are conformed to then all is ok so if the single needs to rest before the MM time is up then that takes legal preference
Daz1970:
Tachograph - Does this situation then allow for the vehicle to ‘keep moving’ whilst non-driver takes his 45 minute break? Or does the truck need to be stood to count as 45 mins. break? What would happen with digi-cards? Would non-driver insert into slot 2 or keep it in his wallet until he drove (as driver 1)? Surely the truck can’t run for 20 hours constant (max.) as per double-manning?
The second driver should have his driver card in slot two, when you change drivers you change the cards over so the current drivers card is always in slot 1 and the driver in the passenger seat has his card in slot 2.
You can legally have a break in the passenger seat of a moving vehicle.
With the card in slot 2 you cannot record a break because slot 2 automatically goes to POA when the vehicle is moving, so the first 45 minutes of POA whilst the second driver is sat in the passenger seat is counted as break.
So the only difference apart from daily rest provisions between a double-manning shift & 2 x single drivers is when the 2nd driver boarded the vehicle.
i.e. If driver 2 joins at beginning or within 1st hour of shift = double-manning
OR If driver 2 joins anytime after an hour from when the shift begins = 2 x single drivers.
But they can still keep rolling 4.5 hours each then another 4.5 hours each? Or are they restricted to single spreadover e.g. 15 hours (max.) from individual shift start times?
If there are two drivers in the vehicle and neither of them are working to the definition of multi-manning in the EU regulations, they can still take in turns to drive but they will be restricted to the normal (single manned journey) daily rest periods ie, maximum 15 hour spread-over.
I’m just wondering if a version of this ‘mixed running’ is how certain companies manage to get two vehicles to the north of the UK and back in one hit legally sharing 3 x drivers between 2 trucks? I always wondered how it was legal but I think maybe this explains it■■? Still unsure though?
If there are two drivers in the vehicle and neither of them are working to the definition of multi-manning in the EU regulations, they can still take in turns to drive but they will be restricted to the normal (single manned journey) daily rest periods ie, maximum 15 hour spread-over.
So that’s the way to go then. The first driver starts work, drives for two a half hours, and then picks up driver two. They can then drive all day (or night), sharing the driving, and taking any breaks in the passenger seat. Fifteen hours after driver one started work, they would stop for a rest. Nine hours later they can start multi-manning.
If the second driver doesn’t join the vehicle within the first hour you would be limited to 15 hours duty (if available) Because you are not allowed to take a daily rest period in a moving vehicle you would be limited to the working hours of the 1st driver.
In coach work it is generally called a ‘Shunt’ where a second driver is picked up en-route to do some driving because the other driver is not allowed either because the whole journey is too long for 1driver drive legally OR the 1st driver needs a break but the schedule doesn’t allow enough time for a break. It’s normally the likes of national express or megabus that will use this.
Daz1970:
I’m just wondering if a version of this ‘mixed running’ is how certain companies manage to get two vehicles to the north of the UK and back in one hit legally sharing 3 x drivers between 2 trucks? I always wondered how it was legal but I think maybe this explains it■■? Still unsure though?
I stopped in at Carlisle Truckstop about 5am and saw Parceline/Geopost/DPD/Interlink trunk drivers swapping drivers. Reckon they were based at Carlisle so one driver does the scotch leg, the other from Carlisle down to the hub and back.
Daz1970:
Tachograph - Does this situation then allow for the vehicle to ‘keep moving’ whilst non-driver takes his 45 minute break? Or does the truck need to be stood to count as 45 mins. break? What would happen with digi-cards? Would non-driver insert into slot 2 or keep it in his wallet until he drove (as driver 1)? Surely the truck can’t run for 20 hours constant (max.) as per double-manning?
The second driver should have his driver card in slot two, when you change drivers you change the cards over so the current drivers card is always in slot 1 and the driver in the passenger seat has his card in slot 2.
You can legally have a break in the passenger seat of a moving vehicle.
With the card in slot 2 you cannot record a break because slot 2 automatically goes to POA when the vehicle is moving, so the first 45 minutes of POA whilst the second driver is sat in the passenger seat is counted as break.
So the only difference apart from daily rest provisions between a double-manning shift & 2 x single drivers is when the 2nd driver boarded the vehicle.
i.e. If driver 2 joins at beginning or within 1st hour of shift = double-manning
OR If driver 2 joins anytime after an hour from when the shift begins = 2 x single drivers.
But they can still keep rolling 4.5 hours each then another 4.5 hours each? Or are they restricted to single spreadover e.g. 15 hours (max.) from individual shift start times?
If there are two drivers in the vehicle and neither of them are working to the definition of multi-manning in the EU regulations, they can still take in turns to drive but they will be restricted to the normal (single manned journey) daily rest periods ie, maximum 15 hour spread-over.