following on from another post. I was woundering how many of you were trained to double clutch going up and donw the box and rev the engain inbetween double clutching gears going down the box ? or were you trained to just single clutch like you would in a car going up and down with no reving between gears ither ?
woundering as i had 2 diffent trainer over my training days and one got me doing it single clutch and the other got me doing it double clutching with reving inbetween.
jrt:
following on from another post. I was woundering how many of you were trained to double clutch going up and donw the box and rev the engain inbetween double clutching gears going down the box ? or were you trained to just single clutch like you would in a car going up and down with no reving between gears ither ?woundering as i had 2 diffent trainer over my training days and one got me doing it single clutch and the other got me doing it double clutching with reving inbetween.
DDC was taught when I did mine in 1988 because trucks were still around at that time with crash boxes but nowadays there is no reason for it to be done except where it will be very beneficial to a trainee - maybe they keep snatching at the gears for example - but it is very rare
If an instructor is doing this as standard then it needs to be mentioned to the boss if they have one
The instructor who was teaching DDC … was he a recent ex army LGV instructor?
I wasn’t taught but I always DDC. It takes sod all effort and is easier on the box.
no not ex army. thay bin training people for a very good many years so thay must be good at what thay do. think maybe thay have just had a bad couple of weeks and been struggleing to get the training times in order.
to the person saying double clutching takes not alot more effort and puts less ware on the clutch.
i know double clutching dosent take any more effort and saves clucht ware. just dont need a diffrent way of doing things being throw up at me a day befor my test. LIKE I SAID BEFOR I DON’T MIND ITHER WAY AS LONG AS I CAN LEAN ONE WAY FORM THE START TO HELP GET IT IN MY MEMORY.
I used to be pretty good with it, and learnt because the Landrover I had had a stronger Series 2 'box in it (S3) and missed synchromesh wherever the squaddies had broken it… Perhaps it came like that? But yeah. Also having a tooth snapped off 3rd gear probably didn’t help either 
Sometimes DDC works OK with me and trucks. Other times it doesn’t 
Some manufacturer’s handbooks say that you should NOT double declutch. The only reason for teaching someone to double declutch on a training vehicle is if the syncro is tired.
But this begs the question: why is any reputable trainer using a worn out vehicle?
thay bin training people for a very good many years so thay must be good at what thay do.
Odd assumption. Are they registered? Are they qualified? Is the centre accredited?
You’ve described a very ramshackle set-up and if you think they are good, so be it.
That’s how they stay in business. Pete 
Didn’t have much choice, non sync foden 8 legged.
Miss a ■■■■ while climbing and it wa crawler all the way. 
my class 2 trainer insisted on double declutching when changing down the box…it was a renault premium.
Recently sat another module towards the driver cpc ( 3 down 2 to go ) the instructor activley discouraged ddc centre rev or not, his arguement was modern trucks don’t need ddclutching, when I pointed out we operate old some 13 year old Leylands he still maintained they don’t need ddclutched, tend to disagree with him been doing it for 30 years now it gets habit forming, Yes I was trained to ddc I was trained in a p reg Ford D series.
ultraclassic:
Recently sat another module towards the driver cpc ( 3 down 2 to go ) the instructor activley discouraged ddc centre rev or not, his arguement was modern trucks don’t need ddclutching, when I pointed out we operate old some 13 year old Leylands he still maintained they don’t need ddclutched, tend to disagree with him been doing it for 30 years now it gets habit forming, Yes I was trained to ddc I was trained in a p reg Ford D series.
Should a good professional driver be able to adapt ?
There are many older drivers that still use the gears to slow down in a modernish manual car but that is now totally unnecessary and the reason they do it is because they are unwilling to adapt - I Have never met one yet who is incapable of adapting
I learnt in a rigid 3 series Scania (J reg) with an eight speed box and was taught to double clutch / declutch as one day it might come in handy. True to form I had to drive an L reg ERF shed one day and they’d had a bloke who tried and completely failed to drive the thing.
To be able to cope with a knackered gearbox having passed the test is a valuable skill. But, to spend good money and time learning to double declutch because the training vehicle has a knackered gearbox is IMO not acceptable.
Having started training 40 years ago, I am very familiar with the art of double declutching and have spent years teaching it on assorted trucks and buses. But time moves on and it is not required in the real world as much as it used to be. Clearly there are exceptions but as we move onto autos as the norm, there are fewer knackered gearboxes out there.
Many manufacturers’ handbooks refute the need for double declutching.
The last vehicle I drove with a crash box was a 1946 AEC coach. And it made a fool of me for a few minutes. It’s important to bear in mind that vehicles vary in their rev/road speed requirements and so it’s good to know the mechanics of d d c but the practice still varies.
BTW, any of my trainees wishing to learn the art … just let me know. Pete
I learnt to double de clutch a long time ago in a car ( my dad always did it ) but thing have moved on I was also taught to go through the gears & not skip / jump now you are taught to do that as a lot of modern lorry cars etc have moved on
With most gearboxes Fuller, Spicer , Eaton twin splitters most old hands will tell you that you dont need to use the clutch at all once your moving, the same applies to Volvo and Scania unless your changeing range or splitting a gear. Its all a matter of timing in fact with an Eaton twin splitter you get a quicker cleaner change.
Despite the current fashion for relying on the brakes like car drivers, proper lorry drivers never do that because should the trailer brakes fail such as the red line break or similar then the tractor brakes will already be heated by sustained use, its called keeping your options open.
Another reason they don’t do so is because its not professional, a lorry is not a car or van and it never ever will be despite the constant dumbing down via automation, driver in control not the lorry.
Its not taught on training and more’s the pity, it was at one time when drivers were taught to drive a lorry and not just to pass a test.
DD goes the same way, its not taught because in the perfect world of truck training nothing fails and nothing is worn.
In the real world vehicles get worn and damaged, sometimes maintained to the nth degree but usually so long as it keeps going then it will do.
The pro driver soon gets a feel for the lorry they are driving, some lorries will change gear readily without any extra input, some will change gear easier with a blip of the throttle and/or a swift DD.
The lorry driver adapts to the vehicle, load and conditions…that will never change because one size doesn’t fit all in this or any other part of driving.
norfolk:
With most gearboxes Fuller, Spicer , Eaton twin splitters most old hands will tell you that you dont need to use the clutch at all once your moving, the same applies to Volvo and Scania unless your changeing range or splitting a gear. Its all a matter of timing in fact with an Eaton twin splitter you get a quicker cleaner change.
I reckon you’re likely to wear the synchromesh excessively if you neglect to use the clutch on a synchro box, matey. However, I fully agree that it’s preferable not to use the clutch on a non-synchro box as it’s easier, quicker and causes less wear on the clutch. Don’t forget the D.B. 'box was another which was brilliant for clutchless changes.
But just don’t start me on the subject of Inertia Brakes!
my class 2 trainer insisted on double declutching when changing down the box…it was a renault premium.
Going by your location, my guess is that this is a green and yellow Premium running out of Nottingham. That box was poorly when I test drove it in around 2004! The present owner bought it and it’s clearly good enough for him.
Trust me, not all training vehicles are the same.
And nor is all the training.
Pete
Peter Smythe:
my class 2 trainer insisted on double declutching when changing down the box…it was a renault premium.
Going by your location, my guess is that this is a green and yellow Premium running out of Nottingham. That box was poorly when I test drove it in around 2004! The present owner bought it and it’s clearly good enough for him.
Trust me, not all training vehicles are the same.
And nor is all the training.
Pete
thats the one peter....tbh there wasnt anything wrong with the box.the first 2 days were spent without double declutching,then…just as i was getting the hang of it…he throws me a curve ball and insists on ddc.
looking back,the way he taught me to change down was totally alien to me…he would have you roll up to a roundabout in top gear,and then go straight down into the gear your gonna pull off in(assuming the road is clear).
i did my class one with a different trainer(jonathon)and just changed down naturally…which for me is to something like 8-7-5 or 8-6-4 and he seemed unalarmed by this.
i dont know if its becuase of riding bikes(change down through every gear) but i like to feel a bit of “engine” whilst i am on the brakes…it sort of makes me feel more connected.
would be interesting to hear your views on this peter and any other trainers.
commonrail:
looking back,the way he taught me to change down was totally alien to me…he would have you roll up to a roundabout in top gear,and then go straight down into the gear your gonna pull off in(assuming the road is clear).i did my class one with a different trainer(jonathon)and just changed down naturally…which for me is to something like 8-7-5 or 8-6-4 and he seemed unalarmed by this.i dont know if its becuase of riding bikes(change down through every gear) but i like to feel a bit of “engine” whilst i am on the brakes…it sort of makes me feel more connected.
Going down through the gears is totally unnecessary in a modern vehicle (M/Cs excepted) in normal driving conditions
Approach and stay in the current gear, dipping clucth as necessary to prevent stalling, and then select gear to go is the safest and easiest way to do it - modern braking systems are designed to cope with this
For training it can also be accepted that a ‘covering gear’ can be used such as approaching in 8th then braking to 5th gear speed, releasing brake pedal, engaging 5th - drive up to hazard in 5th then apply more braking and change down again if necessary - that is but one example