Don't hand your keys in

[shrek]

del949:

police attend, the load is not the property of the haulier ususally he is contracted to deliver ect, so if he attempts to leave site against the instructions of site he could be deemed as theft, thin i know but this is what the police said at the time,

As far as I know the definition of theft is " the intent to permanently deprive."
can’t see how taking load back to depot fits this definition.
I would think that “unlawful detention” is more likely to be true.
Just a thought… if they refuse to let you out (except in cases of extreme nature) are you justified in crashing the gate?
Now that would be fun

The definition of theft is as follows;
“dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention to permanently deprive the other of that property”.

I won’t go into the in’s and out’s of the finer points of law, but suffice to say that none of the above fits in with the Theft Act and yet another urban myth (or “total b*****ks”) is born Some people will believe anything their mate tells them.

If the police turn up (which they are obliged to do if called) the situation is that there is a civil dispute going on, no criminal offences etc etc etc, and the truck driver should be allowed to leave after giving his details (and his company details of course) so the RDC numptys can take the matter up with his firm thorough the civil courts.

And no, you’re not justified in crashing the gate because that is “criminal damage” and you’ll get locked up.

My advice? Just call the police and tell them you’re being held against your will…they’ll be there as soon as they can and you’ll be on your way as above.

There, a definitive answer!

[krankee]

I’ll agree with you on Theft, as it fails on both Sections 2 and 7, and probably on Section 3, but in relation to ‘no criminal offences’, aren’t you forgetting ‘False Imprisonment’?

[dambuster]

madtrucker:
Anyone got a good reason why they object??

Before getting into it - Most “genuine” RDCs are those of supermarkets. I’m lucky enough to not tip at RDCs very often.

But …

1. I don’t like bullies.

In actual fact, bullies and bullying is/are among the (very) few things that I truly hate. With a vengeance. Be they a person, or organisation.

I’ve found over the years that supermarkets have brought themselves into a position where they are able to intimidate and bully their suppliers into conforming to pretty much anything they want. That’s not my issue. My issue is that, for some reason that “power” is assumed to wash down from the Chairman of the Board of Tesco* all the way down to the forklift driver employed by a third party contractor (Exel Logistics**) and the also third party so called “security” person at the gate.

If/When I attempt to deliver a load of pet food, or wine, or anything else to an RDC the end user is totally irrelevant to me. I am employed by A N Other Haulage Ltd. They have been contracted by A N Other Shipping Line Ltd to deliver said pet food to A N Other Logistics Company Ltd. What the logistics company (warehousing) does with the pet food holds no interest for me - nor my employer. I have no interest or involvement with Tesco*

I’m an arrogant arse. I will NOT be spoken to or treated like something that someone has scraped off the bottom of their shoe.

2. Although I appreciate that it has happened - I have never, in over 20 years pulled off a bay and caused anyone any injury. Yes - it is said that “accidents happen” … I don’t agree. I’d say “accidents are caused …”

3. When Tesco* can - and are willing - to provide me with the same level of comfort, privacy and the facilities that a modern tractor unit affords me, then I’ll reconsider my attitude/opinion.

Such as …TV channel of my choice. DVD of my choice. Freshly made tea. Freshly brewed fresh (not instant kack) coffee. Reclining chair. Bed if required/wanted. Air conditioning (if able to run the engine) Freedom to talk in my own “language” and “style” about the topics of interest to me, without the fear of ridicule or the risk of offending other.

4. I was recently informed by my “new” employer that, in general, my personal possessions are no longer insured, other than items described as essential. Will Tesco* now assume responsibility for any loss suffered ?

Still reading ■■?

I don’t know if anyone would consider those to be “good reasons” but they are some of mine. I am asked for me keys fairly regularly. My first response depends on the marque of truck I’m driving at the time. If by removing the keys, it leaves me without electrical power (windows) then I will already have removed the ignition keys from the ring, and hand in whatever is left.

I’ve never sat the entire time in one of these so called “driver’s lounges”

I’m not sure about the Yooman Rites aspect, but I’m fairly sure that under UK law, “No person may compel another to go to, or remain in any place other than by arrest” That was certainly the case when I was required to “study” some aspects of law in the 80s.

Now then - two things I have done in the past and would consider repeating. I can neither prove, nor substantiate them. Take from them what you will. I have put my outfit across the gate of a major supermarket RDC. I was there for over half an hour, bringing the place to an almost complete standstill. I have also refused to be searched. The refusal was made before getting in. This resulting in my having to return the delivery to where I picked it up. The important part of both these incidents is that I was not fired and, more neither incident was mentioned after their occurrence - Go figure. Next time I feel the need to really stand my ground against what I consider to be fascists - I’m going to go for a written apolpgy, on company heade paper, signed with a legible signature by someone in/with authoritaaay. I’ve come close to that, but not quite there

*Other supermarkets are available

** Other logistics companies are available

Oh - one last thing, if you’re still reading.

About being searched.

To those that would question/ask “An inoccent man has nothing to hide”/“What have you to hide ?” …

I would answer “Nothing”

It’s not about hiding. It’s about protection. I protect my privacy and my dignity.

Argue that. I’m genuinely interested.

Btw. I’m 47.

Can you imagine what I’ll be like when I’m 73 and really don’t give a ZB !?!?!?!?

In edit.

My usual response to the question of being searched (or a quick look in your cab ) is … “Yes Dude. Just as soon as you bring a policeman”

[lankytim]

I think strictly speaking its not a case of false imprisonment because you would be allowed to leave on foot, leaving your lorry behind.

Something similar happeded to my mate at an RDC a few years ago. He was kept on a bay for hours, eventually managed to get his keys back from the warehouse staff after much swearing and threats “weve told security not to let you out until we give the go ahead so youre stuck here anyway” He drove round to the security hut… “have you got a [zb] problem with me to??” and up came the barrier Bad language and shouting can work wonders sometimes.

If it needs stars it’s not allowed. The only wonders bad language will work here is ■■■■■■■ me off. L.

[dambuster]

Shrek:
And no, you’re not justified in crashing the gate because that is “criminal damage” and you’ll get locked up.

Does the the question of arrestable offence still depend on the value of the property/damage ?

Personally, it has crossed my mind in the past. I think I’d be inclinded to turn the outfit round and reverse through the barrier, thereby avoiding damge to the truck (unit)

[gardun]

Just keep two sets of keys but only one that fits then hand in the ones that don’t. They should never find out

[tc_trans]

I tipped expert logistics at Radcliffe a while back, and after getting on bay handed my keys to the security guy (as instructed) 2 hours later tipped and got signed delivery notes but no keys… they lost them!!

After being pointed from pillar to post and every person just copping a deaf one, I asked for the manager, who duly arrived, and I then asked him for his boss so that he could sanction calling MAN out to replace the ignition, door locks and both fuel caps. It went on for more than 2 hours but he finally agreed to bear the cost of new locks.
Just as the main man was about to call MAN out, some ■■■■■■■ turned up and said are these your keys? which they were, and apparently they thought it was my fault as the keys did not have a registration tag on them… doughnuts.

refuse point blank now to hand em in there.

[dambuster]

gardun:
Just keep two sets of keys but only one that fits then hand in the ones that don’t. They should never find out

Embarassing Situation No 435784/b7

I handed in my car keys a while ago. I even went to the trouble of fixing them to the almost empty, but bulging with tags, tabs and gonks, keyring of the truck (only one - do all key)

Five minutes later did the tipping dude come back and ask for the proper truck keys

[krankee]

dambuster:
Does the the question of arrestable offence still depend on the value of the property/damage ?

You are stetching the brain cells now. IIRC, the term ‘arretable offence’ first appeared in the Criminal Law Act 1967, and was defined as ‘an offence for which, upon first conviction, carried a sentence of 5 years imprisonment or more’, and was commonly referred to as the ‘any person’ power, as, provided certain conditions were met, it was available to any member of the public. It was then superceded by Section 17 PACE, with similar wording, and has since be replaced by powers under SOCA, which, if I am led to believe is true, maintain those ‘any person’ powers granted by the 1967 Act.

Prior to the 1967 Act, and the Theft Act 1968, there was the Larceny Act, which may have given certain powers according to value but even THAT, was before my time…

The current Criminal Damage Act was introduced in 1972 and, AFAICR, all offences under the Act, including ‘Threats to commit damage’ something to bear in mind when ‘threatening to ram’ a barrier, carry a maximum sentence of 5 years imprisonment or more.

False imprisonment, on the other hand, is contrary to Common Law, for which there is no maximum penalty. Although, looking on the CPS site under their guidelines, where violence or weapons are involved, 8 years. Otherwise 18 months.

[kenny1975]

The theft thing.

in the case where it happend to me demanding to leave an RDC.

I was told by my boss to leave the RDC as the bonded warehouse i was working out had two tractor units doing dayshift which then went and done trunks at night. The unit needed to be back to do a trunk.

Waiting round for god knows how long to get tipped would mean screwing up their trunk which would mean everyone else is late creates a chain reaction onto the next day.

The theft issue, is the load actually property of the RDC, we were working out a bonded warehouse who supplied the RDC and invoiced them for payment. So had the RDC actually paid for the goods when i was delveriing them. So is it there property or is it not a case of a failed delivery.

When it comes down to it, the unit and trailer are property of the bonded warehouse not the RDC so they have no right to stop it leaving.

[dambuster]

Krankee:

dambuster:
Does the the question of arrestable offence still depend on the value of the property/damage ?

Some stuff

I’ve some foggy memory about Criminal Damage only being arrestable if the valur of the damage exceeded £■■

But it was all a very long time ago

[marcustandy]

I don’t see how the load is the property of the RDC until it is unloaded and signed for. Until that point it is the property of, or at least the responsibility of, the haulier including his representative i.e. the driver, and as such the driver should be able to drive away with the load.

Breach of (delivery) contract is a seperate issue.

[el_gordo_78]

After getting stuff stolen from my cab at a sainsburys depot in that london, I usually give in a fake set, or make sure all my stuff is in a backpack and bring all my stuff out with me so the scrotes can’t nick owt.

[wheel_nut]

You could always use a large keyring to attach your keys to, something like a brake disc off the truck and hand that in

[limeyphil]

Wheel Nut:
You could always use a large keyring to attach your keys to, something like a brake disc off the truck and hand that in

Trouble is “mr hi viz jobsworth you can’t park here” will find a rule about that.

[dle1uk]

what i,m saying is if the driver does this of his own free will as such, will the haulier be supportive of his drivers actions?? in the case I was taking about the answer was no, bookers wanted the driver to stay so basically he was trying to take the load away against the site and his own companies instruction…

fact that theft is to permanently deprive is yes correct, however again in this case the load was needed for supply, taking away the load would have meant we could not supply the product to fulfill our orders which was deemed as permanently deprive, like it or not that is how the police explained it at the time.

personally i thought the driver was a complete planker for doing this, we did,nt expect the drivers to sit in restroom ect they stayed with the truck, doing whatever they wanted to do in the cab, sleep watch dvd ect, so why get so upset in the first place.

[limeyphil]

I have been fortunate when it comes to employer backup.
once i was tipping a concrete beam at a site in tiverton. they wouldn’t let me out until after 5pm this was at 0830. the police threatened the site manager with arrest my employer told me to ram the gate. it didn’t get that far.
another was morrisons wakefield. pulled out due to their bad manners dumped 24 ton of yogurt from le mans. at fleetwood. we got paid.
Another was in newcastle, i just mentioned about the key handing in thing, the boss went ape. he went to the meat packing company and he let rip. 100% backup.

[kenny1975]

dle1uk:
personally i thought the driver was a complete planker for doing this, we did,nt expect the drivers to sit in restroom ect they stayed with the truck, doing whatever they wanted to do in the cab, sleep watch dvd ect, so why get so upset in the first place.

Maybe he was wanting home, i know as truckers we are supposed to have diesel in the blood and love nothing more than spending every single hour of the day in a truck.

I know thats terribly out of order of truck drivers espec if maybe your on a day shift supposed to be finishing Friday afternoon but you have spent all day sitting in a RDC where you should have been tipped in a few hours because the RDC couldnt organise a ■■■■ up in a brewery.

Maybe the trucker had something on, wanted to go out with his mates that night, but because he is a trucker that doesent matter, can rest assured the forkies, the security guards, the mangers etc… in the RDC will they be spending their night stuck in the RDC sleeping in a truck, no they will be home as soon as their time is up.

I ain’t niave getting delayed is part of the job but somtimes it just takes the ■■■■ in the case of RDC, espec when its somthing stupid like a few sealed pallets and you spent 8 hours waiting to get tipped.

Hold on the i get paid by the hour mob will roll in, yeah but you get paid by the hour, and wow can get an extra £20 cause you had to stay out over night.

Somtimes there is more to life than money, somtimes you have stuff you want to go and do.

[dambuster]

dle1uk:
fact that theft is to permanently deprive is yes correct, however again in this case the load was needed for supply, taking away the load would have meant we could not supply the product to fulfill our orders which was deemed as permanently deprive, like it or not that is how the police explained it at the time.

That just reminded me of when I heard one half of a telephone conversation in the late 80s.

I was on for John Dee out of an estate at Rotherham, running canned beer for Courage. Transport Manager was old school and a driver’s dream - if the drivers were any good - and got on with the job.

Let’s say the date was Wedneday 15 December, It went something like this …

TM into the phone “We’ve just had a load rejected because it was late by 37 minutes”

Blahblablah

TM “Can I rebook it please”

Blahblablah

TM “How about Monday at 2 o’clock ?”

Blahblablah

TM “Yeah, that’s fine”

Blahblablah

TM very calmly and matter of fact. “No no. Monday 19 March”

BlahblablahBlahblablahBlahblablahBlahblablahBlahblablahBlahblablah
BlahblablahBlahblablahBlahblablahBlahblablahBlahblablahBlahblablah

TM “Oh - okay. I’ll tell him to come back in now then shall I ■■?”

TM puts phone down and turns to anyone listening (there were a few) “ZBing Tesco Who do the ZB do they think they are ■■?”

Turns out it was Tesco Whelam (?) Green. Most of us had spent more than one full shift there waiting to tip in the run up to Chritsmas

[lovlyperson]

who says you cant go to your Cab? just let it unlocked