Do we make it hard for new drivers?

NEW AND WANNABE DRIVERS (INTERACTIVE)
1

Do some places not think when it comes down to new drivers.

Was working the other night standing waiting for my delivery run and was a guy who had passed his test two days before C+E.

We all get different runs every night so its not like you are stuck doing the same run or it makes a difference where you go.

This new guy basically first time he was going out on his own, he was asking where he was going. They told him the two shops and i thought hmmm two of the hardest places to get into.

First one involves reversing down a lane, basically gotta keep trailer straight or your gonna hit a wall.

Second involves driving down a tiny street, then doing a blind side reverse onto a loading bay which is in a busy car park. On top of this on the tiny street you have parked cars where the unit will swing out towards. Basically to get this in you need to jack knife the trailer. Ive done it a few times was heavy going, heard experienced drivers driven for years say its a nightmare and even they have had to take a few shots at it.

The guy was asking advice and when he was told about the shops looked scared, he was obviously realyl nervous i dont blame him if i tried that a day or so after passing my test would no doubt hit somthing. He got advice and was told to get guy from the shop to guide him in. After he left everyone having a laugh about it saying yeah he will hit a parked car no doubt. The guy in charge of the runs is standing laughing as well.

I’m thinking WTF, i had a run that day two drops easy one, have to reverse onto bays but big wide open spaces perfect for someone to learn the ropes. If you make an arse of it not gonna hit anything, only thing dented is gonna be your pride. Same with other experienced guys going shops with easy access.

I just thought it was crazy, whats everyone elses experiences with companies and new drivers. As an agency driver i was promised easy runs to start off with to get my used to the truck as it turned out got a semi easy one looking back, delivering to PlumbCentres in Edinburgh, Dundee, Aberdeen involved reversing but big spaces.

heard before at work guys driving class 2’s who have class 1’s who wont drive them i guess had bad experiences and put off driving.

2

I’m with you on this one Kenny1975.
I worked for 16 years at a steel stockholders who had in-house transport and every time we had an agency or new driver, the policy was to give them the easiest run possible as well as the easiest vehicle to drive (usually the smallest one) because they did not know the vehicle, the route, the customer etc etc. A lot of times the driver had little or no experience of hauling steel and the last thing anyone wanted was to put pressure on the driver which could have resulted in a seroius incident. If the same driver was used often then they were progressed to more difficult jobs etc. The in-house drivers who usually drove the smaller trucks were a bit miffed at having to give up their normal lorry now and again but were consulted on what was the safest thing to do in the circumstances and with that sort of consultation between the management and drivers - it worked. I bet there are not many firms that have that sort of consultation set up nowadays! - but I could be wrong!

3

Kenny1975:
heard before at work guys driving class 2’s who have class 1’s who wont drive them i guess had bad experiences and put off driving.

been there, done it for several years. i passed my class 1 for near enough 10 years but only 2 1/2 experience. even then i was railroaded into it but i refused to take an artic out without training first. i gave them all the legal stuff (my responsibilities etc) and they backed down. i havent looked back. i wish i had done it sooner.

i think the new guys should get put on trunking for a while before sticking them on shop work. let them get used to everything else before the tricky stuff. i feel sorry for the guy you are talking about

4

Kenny1975:
Do some places not think when it comes down to new drivers.

Was working the other night standing waiting for my delivery run and was a guy who had passed his test two days before C+E.

We all get different runs every night so its not like you are stuck doing the same run or it makes a difference where you go.

This new guy basically first time he was going out on his own, he was asking where he was going. They told him the two shops and i thought hmmm two of the hardest places to get into.

I hear what you are saying but there is also the ‘in at the deep end’ theory. Imagine if he returns and he has nailed those deliveries, managed the reversing etc. It would be a great boost to his confidence would it not?

Do you know how he got on?

5

I was in a yard on Tuesday morning. There was a lad with a brand new 07 Daf XF and he made a complete pigs ear of reversing onto a bay. He had about 12 shunts and he had 3 empty spaces. It was lucky he didnt take the cab off a Roadways truck as he was heading straight for him several times.

Normally I would help someone but he was dangerous. When he got it somewhere near the bay he attempted to drop it. instead of that he dragged it off the bay as his suspension shot up when he pulled forward.

Suddenly there 4 blokes trying to help him and they were all as bad at reversing. I moved my truck to give them more space. The worst thing was that 3 of these drivers had just returned to the yard from the main roads, so they were definately not shunters

6

i know trunking sounds the right thing but after 2 odd years doing it my reversing was still not brilliant ,but after 3 months doing shop, high street ,tiny yards, blinside reveres off of high streets at 9 oclock with schoolkids, cars,folks everywhere i think it really is the best way to learn , at times you brick it thinking this has got to be a wind up but it really does start to give you confidence that 2 years of trunking never gave me. but theres still no reason to laugh and take the ■■■■ as weve all had to start somewhere

7

Not sure what happend with that driver, wasnt my normal depot got sent out to another depot to pick up a run so not been back since. Hard to think of a trailer in the yard which isnt scraped or bashed maybe thats why.

Agree with the comment about trunking won’t learn a lot about reversing, some trunking jobs ive done involve straight out a yard onto a motorway, 200miles then into another yard dump trailer pick up another drive back and don’t even need to reverse. Think its good though right at the start to learn the way the vehicle drives and other things gets a bit of confidence on the road but not gonna learn to drive down smaller roads or how to reverse.

Guess with reversing there is no easy way to learn its just practise and getting the hang of it. No magic set of instructions or theory can teach you it. Best advice i was given was short constant adjustments, rather than try and copy shunters with one large movement and getting it in first time. Guess just comes down to experience knowing ok its when to add a bit when to take a bit off which just comes with time. I was driving 6 leggers with triple axel trailer for so long, got a fright when drove a 4 legger with a double axel trailer thought god whats happened to my reversing can’t do it anymore all learning. Had even more fun taking a 27ft trailer out lol

Guess you gotta just bite the bullet and do it, but some places could make it a lot easier. The place i was at have loads of different runs, you get a different one every night so not as if you are steping on someones toes by giving an inexperienced driver certain runs. Could be the perfect place to learn, since some shops you deliver to have large areas where its still involves skill getting it on the loading area but you can make an arse of it and not hit anything where others you make an arse of it will end up against a wall.

8

I never had many problems with class 1’s, well in terms of confidence or hitting things. I had loads of shunts getting into places but just accepeted it as a learning curve.

But with class 2 licence i got put through by a company tbh wasnt that interested just employer thought he would need class 2 drivers. In the end stuck with vans and never even drove a 7.5 tonner.

Left that job decided to try agency work driving class 2’s first time out 8 wheeler down to tiny shops hard reverse really struggled hated it. Second night out even smaller shop in this tiny scheme had to reverse through tiny gateway to rear of the shop. I said no chance shop worker directed me and i hit the gateway getting in scraped side of the truck and knocked a chunk of their wall down. I said look we can just unload outside the shop at the front is a loading area here anyways and makes no difference, he said no way gotta go round the back otherwise can’t accept it, i said well i cant get the truck in there so never done the delivery. Got back to depot told TM he wasnt too happy, said well lets see the damages. He then appologised said what a ■■■■ up ive been driving 20 years couldnt get that truck into that shop its too big only supposed to send 7.5tonner to that shop you did the right thing not trying it again.

Confidence up a bit, thinking maybe not that bad, again asked daytime for easier deliveries as no experience yet given hard ones. After a week decided driving class 2’s wasnt for me and jacked it in went back to van driving.

Ended up working for DHL as a van courier, they didnt realise i had my class 2. When they found out was told good we’ve been needing someone with a class 2 licence, i said no way i cant drive them. Guy laughed and said don’t worry i’ll help you get used to it. Had some spare time so he helped me practise reversing and gave me loads of tips. In the yard, also involved taking class 2 out to a place droping trailer box and picking up another really didnt fancy it at all but again boss said well i’ll come out with you first few times make sure everything is allright since its a tight squeeze getting into this place.

Basically confidence right up and started doing mostly class 2 work for DHL and my driving came along leaps and bounds. With no accidents or even slight scrapes ever since driving a class 2.

Just think with companies espec when its their own drivers should maybe put more effort into giving drivers the right runs and help they need. Rather than just chucking the keys to a vehicle worth serious cash and saying off you go hope for the best.

Agency its a bit different you get someone in and hopefully expect they know what they are doing. But espec when its your own driver and you know he isnt experienced should help him out, they are the first to ■■■■■ when a truck gets damaged but what do they expect when you give experienced drivers deliveries with easy manuovers and give the guy just passed his test the hardest ones.

9

We must have it right in our yard then.

We’ve got a new lad for the next 2 weeks whilst a regular driver is on holiday, and for the first 3/4 days we’ll be giving him the better jobs on the sheet. After that there’ll be no mercy :smiling_imp: :smiling_imp:

By the way, he’s an experienced driver not a newbie, but our job can be a right pain so we treat all new driver to the job the same way.

10

Hi Kenny1975 :slight_smile: its a breath of fresh air reading your post. I’m a newly qualified driver and agree with all you say. From my point of view at this moment in time I worry about the driving/reversing etc. I’m lucky as I start a job trunking on monday but the company I work for have been great…putting me at ease etc. The night trunker driver also made me feel welcome as a newbie. Im out all week learning the job from monday and as much as it is daunting I’m feeling up for it.

When I was doing my training I did consider doing some agency work but as coffeeholic said “in at the deep end” would not be for me. I think it would be a couple of years before I even considered that. Thing is though its the agencies who get you the experience normally unless your lucky as I have been so I suppose you either go “in at the deep end” or shy away from it.

Anyway its nice to hear some support from experienced drivers so thanks.

Nige

11

Hi i started a new job for an agency.
and the full time lads just smiled when they saw my run.

I had a multi-drop around Anglesey.

I admit it is a beautiful area ,
but try getting a 18 tonner into Caernarfon.
I was nearly sick but 12 hrs later when i got back in the yard in Manchester

the manager was amazed i stuck it out and finished all 12 drops.

Been there 10 days now and every day is getting easier

Sometimes the deep end does work.
Very stressful but as long as you take your time , on the way home you are on cloud nine,

12

It happens to new faces, not just new drivers!
Went to a particular supermarket RDC for the first time last year. Got keys, notes and map with no problem. Had to drink coffee for half an hour waiting for fridge to drop from +19 to +5 as not allowed out of gate above +5. Made note not to buy chilled food from another supermarket.
Arrive at shop. First glance tells me it ain’t going through the gates.
Man appears, “what you doing here with that?”
“Bringing your stuff.”
“Not with that, you ain’t. Wait there.”
In front of me is a corner which 4x4’s are finding tight, so not sure where he thought I was going to go while he wandered off muttering to himself.
Manager turns up. “What you doing here with that?”
“Bringing your stuff.”
“Not with that. Rigids during the day or short trailers with steering axles at night when there’s no parked cars are all we can get in here. Your depot knows that.”
“Well, it ain’t going through your gates, so either I drop it onto the road and your lads wheel it in or it goes back. Up to you really.”
He gets help, and even helps himself and it don’t actually take long.
“How do I get out of here now then?”
“Same way you came it, it’s the only way.”
That’s 150 yard reverse up a narrow road with cars constantly coming into it, followed by a blindside reverse into the 4 lanes of suburban racetrack known locally as Hammersmith Broadway at 5.00pm on a Friday.
“OK, can you phone the police for assistance, please?”
“No, I don’t think we want to involve the police.”
“OK, we’ll do it the other way then.”
“That would be best.”
So, I handed him the keys.
“What are they for?”
“There’s a station over the road, they’ll need the keys when they come to collect it.”
He called the police and they were as good as gold, braver than most walking out to stop manic Londoners from their racing and I was soon back in the depot.
Took keys and notes in, “oh, so you are the one who called the police, are you?” Loud enough to attract attention of half a dozen office staff and a dozen or so drivers who all took much interest.
“Yes.”
“We don’t like to involve the police.”
“Then don’t send me to places like that then.”
“We go to Hammersmith every day. It’s not a problem.”
Driver chips in with it’s a bit tight but easy enough.
“If you go there everyday then you know you can’t get in, don’t you?”
“How did you unload if you couldn’t get in?”
“Tail lift onto the road.”
“Are you signed off to use a tail lift?”
“No.”
There then followed a 15 minute health and safety lecture on the importance of being trained to use equipment and a bollocking for using equipment I hadn’t been trained on.
“You are mental.”
“What do you mean by that?”
“You’ve just lectured me about health and safety, but don’t mind an illegal reverse from minor to major road on the blindside across 4 lanes of rush hour traffic. As I said - mental.”
“If you knew what you were doing, you’d have got into the gate and not had to reverse.”
“I do know what I’m doing which is why the police were called.”
There’s is now much sniggering among the drivers about agency drivers.
At this point the guy who did my assessment walked into the office. “What’s the ammusement then?”
General comments about agency drivers not being able to get into Hammersmith shop. He looks at me, “You’ve been to Hammersmith?”
“Yes.”
“But, I just watched you come in with an artic. You can’t get artics in there.”
At which point all the sniggering stopped. Red faced planner gives me next drop.
“No thanks, I’m off home.”
A mistake in the office? Maybe, but Friday afternoon and loaded with cages to within 10 foot of the doors of a 45 footer, suggests not, because not only can I see at a glance when something won’t fit, but I also know that was way too many cages to fit into a rigid, unless it was high enough to double deck them, and I never seen that yet.

13

I think it really depends on the company, and even the area you live in. I have been extremely lucky in my jobs, when i passed my class 2 within a couple of weeks was working on 18 tonners, and after i passed my class one had 3 job offers! chose the best one, had another driver go with me on the first day, all went ok, then the rest of the week following another lorry, never looked back! Never had any hostility, all i hear is " well we all had to start at the beginning at some time or another"

14

oct/nov 06 i passed my c2/c1

at first i signed on with agency, got class 2 work no probs, but no c1.

then i got job jan 07 with a transport comp, driving class 2…until this week, then i got a class 1 job, they knew i didnt have any exp. they sent me into a farm in middle of nowhere, it was tight, when i got back they said how did it go…i said i took my time and didnt hit anything, good they went u’ve passed or test as its a bloody hard place to get to…what plonkers!!!

im still nervious of reversing it (a week on) but its a artform, and does take time…to get it right

i can understand why the industry want exp drivers, but this industry needs more new drivers to cover the old ones retiring, its hard to get started, and some companys dont give you time to seatle down… why…MONEY MONEY MONEY…

15

Traz:
when i got back they said how did it go…i said i took my time and didnt hit anything, good they went u’ve passed or test as its a bloody hard place to get to…what plonkers!!!

Why plonkers? They gave you a wee test to see how good you are You proved you are good and got the job done so now they know they don’t have too much to worry about with you and can give you more artic work. Seems to me everyone’s a winner.

16

I think a little bit of sweating in the early days does you good, I was sent to some god awful places when I started driving but every time you do it properly, you gain confidence and learn what happens when you turn the wheel on a tricky reverse.

All of a sudden you can forget what you learned to pass the test and learn how an artic works. It really annoys me to see some drivers who clearly havent got a clue and are watching the wrong bit

17

well i look for parking spaces away from other lorrys so far, as i dont want to damage anyone elses motor.

i know it will take time… and i generaly get there in the end!!! and getting funny looks of other drivers, and them telling me…ur new at this arnt you? with a big grin on there face…i reply yep…we all gotta learn sometime…

and that breaks the ice!!!

18

well i started with a big company last week im getting all the GOODdrops but its nothing i havent done before in fact its a piece of :laughing: the first decent run i get ill probly jack through boredom but seriously you cant pick n chose what you do when youre a newbie you take it easy stop look (repeat process) weve all had it rammed up us (its part of the job) im still getting it after 24 years :laughing: but its better than my last job

19

Ok, passed last week.

Done two runs in class 2 with the agency so far, forst to tescos RDC, 200 mile run - stick it on the bay then come home. Hardest thing i had to deal with was figuring out how to use the exit gate in harlow.

Second run. multy drop for a shop chain to illminster. first i had to deal with horrid roads, avoid listening to my sat nav (which lies!) and eventually i get to my first drop. Its a 90 degree right turn into a lane which is one way and had cars parked down one side.

i had to swing round and blind side reverse down an s shaped lane into a carpark with a loading bay at the back of it.

Takes me 15 minutes but i get there. coming out im looking at this lane and i reilase thats its one way so i have to turn left.

After 3 or four shunts im lined up to turn on to the lane. i make the turn and drive slowly to a small cross roads. Im looking at the map on the sat nav and im thinking “ok i see how the other drivers do it, i have to go streight across the junction.”

Just as i get to the end of the lane, i see a big red sign “road ahead closed” Why the hell they couldnt have put that at the beginning of the road i dont know.

Anyway i had to make a right turn from a lane only 6" wider than me (im in a full size 18 tonner with a drop axle) into another road with cars parked down the near side from bumper to bumper.

Needless to say i closed off the whole of illminster for 30 minutes. Again as said above, called police who moved some of the traffic for me and smiled and waved.

Arrived back at the yard to discover that one of the regular drivers was off. the guy who normally does the run i had to do had taken over his run so that i had deliberatly been given the worst.

But i did it, i didnt scrape or bang the lorry and no paintwork was exchanged.

politley asked the agency to never send me back.

20

Obviously some firms are better than others but I wish they would just take a few mins out to explain a few things about how they want things done and what is the procedures for the paper work etc.

Doing my first run delivering frozen / chilled food in a full sized rigid last week after passing my test at the end of last month I had a tough initiation. I had the paperwork thrust at me after asking how long I’d held my class 2 with a look of disgust on the transport supervisors face and was told where to find my truck and then he was off with someone else before I could anything. You felt like you would be treated like a leper if you did.

A couple of the drivers I bumped into outside were agency and I asked them what the procedures were but they just shrugged their shoulders and said they didn’t really know either.

O well, nothing ventured nothing gained. Found truck with range change, something else to learn on my first day. Sweating that I’d gt it out of the yard in some sort of right gear. Set of west of Glasgow for 13 drops around the west coast. First day of getting used to sat nav as well, learnt not to take everything literally but only after taking wrong roads a few times and finding low bridges. :blush: Got used to reversing at this point.

Found this company have stores that are not the most accessable, unless you’re in a small van! Also my tail-lift kept sticking and took 10 mins of going up and down to get anything off - getting very hot and bothered now.

At this point the fridge stops running and the temp is rising. I call the office and ask what the temp should be and will the fridge turn itself back on■■? dunno I’ve not been giving any info - the office just tutted and asked how many more drops I have and put the phone down. Nice!

After pressing every button on the control I get it going again - hopefully before the ice cream becomes yoghart. When I get back to the depot 13 1/2 hours later I get a bollocking for not filling in the paperwork properly, when I asked about reporting faults I was told find a mechanic and that was that, they were back behind their window sitting with their backs to me.

At this point I was thinking have I made the right decision taking this career path■■? My confidence was shot and I went home feeling pretty bad even though I know I’m not a numpty and I should be able to do this - JUST GIVE ME A BIT OF SUPPORT :imp: :imp: :imp:

I guess it’s a steep learning curve and as they say - whatever don’t kill you makes you stronger.