This reads a bit like “You can’t sack me 'cos I’m in the Union”…
When it comes down to it, your employer can sack you for pretty much anything.
If you have no chance of disproving the allegations against you given as the “reason” for the sacking, then there’s no point in disputing it.
In law, the rear-ending driver is automatically in the wrong unless:-
(1) The front driver is DD/DR
(2) The front driver is reversing into you whilst you are stationary (difficult to prove without a dashcam this one!)
(3) The front driver is in a stolen vehicle which they don’t have the qualifications to drive…
(4) The front driver is an escapee subject to a section order under the mental health act.
ChrisWhgv:
thanks. fact, there is no sense to discuss about rear end with UK law
But dismissal decision is… “conclusion that you were despite your statement of mitigation that you were tiredand having reviewed your hours worked there is no evidence of excessive hours worked in contravention of the drivers hours regulations”
Employer breaching my statutory rights to work 48, which is his duty of care to record and check my average week hours.
And Then Lie in 2 points of conclusion.
Mitigation [after accident and because accident (I got messages on my phone to prove it]
Tachomaster do not lie, all weeks was more then 48. Average 50.25h per week. so it is hard proof.
So it’s everyone’s fault but you own then. Welcome to the UK, with an attitude like that you will fit right in.
Juddian:
Employed for 7 months you don’t have a leg to stand on in my opinion.
Unless you can provide some written evidence that you have objected to the hours of work previously, no one is going to take an objection after the fact seriously.
Same with the supposed ABS fault, you say you mentioned the problem previously but did you write out a defect report, no written defect no fault recorded.
Just one of those things, you got it wrong and they took a dim view of it and sacked you, and as you’ve only been there 7 months that’s it more or less, i’d be wary of trying for unfair dismissal without a good chance of success, the less fuss you make about this probably the best for you in the long run.
Luckily for you, accidents, unless the police prosecute and get a points conviction, are not recorded on your driving licence, so if you go on agency for a while this will soon be forgotten.
You were lucky it was another lorry you hit and not a car full of nuns and curly haired little cheeldren carrying baskets of kittens…no seriously though, it could have been worse and you could have caused injuries or worse, learn from this episode.
baskets of kittens fell of me ■■■■■■ stool lafing ffs judd your a ■■■■■■ star
Sorry but a rear end shunt, is a rear end shunt,there can only be yourself to blame.
Driving to close,not allowing space or time for the unexpected,driving whilst distracted,its down to you,unfortunately you have learnt by your mistake the hard way.
ChrisWhgv:
Facts: I drove 10mph less then limit , visibility point on curve in to the LGV was max 50 meters , wet road
Highway code state with my speed stopping distance should be 64 meters , my stopping distance was about 45. I had also abs fault in unit
Next day after i made collision raport. They gave me a letter with allegation :
…accident was entirely due to your negligence and failure to pay due care and attention.
They were correct. If you hit the back of another vehicle it is because you were driving too close or too fast. There is only one exception to that and it is when someone pulls into your safe braking distance and slams all on.
The stopping distances in the Highway Code are for a CAR and IN THE DRY. There are no stopping distances for LGVs because a LGV can weigh anything from 4/5 tonnes empty to 44 tonnes or more loaded. In the wet stopping distance DOUBLES so in the wet the Highway Code stopping distance of 64 metres becomes 128 metres but that is for a car.
" The gap should be at least doubled on wet roads and increased still further on icy roads"
" remember, large vehicles and motorcycles need a greater distance to stop.
The 48hrs is an average and does not include breaks and PoA. You can legally do 70hrs every week for the full 26 week reference period as long as you record 22hrs of breaks and PoA. Someone doing containers or fridge work spending a lot of time waiting to be loaded/unloaded could do that.
Damages in my truck was little enough to let me drive ( front plastics smashed and bended cabin shock absorber )
If it has bent the cabin shock absorber then the cab is twisted and will need to be replaced. I did this when I jacknifed. I thought it was OK as there was no damage I could see but then I could not select a couple of gears because the gear lever wouldn’t move enough to the side. When it went to the garage and they lifted the cab it moved several centimetres to the side when it came off the cab locks. The entire cab needed replacing at a cost of £1000s.
Thanks all. I am gonna move on.
I calculate as you did explain stopping distance 40mph is 36 meters on dry in highway code that why because was wet and I drove less then 40mph i assuming about 64 meters in my situation. I use software for accident reconstruction for that. I stopped in 45-50 meters
and i was thinking i will stop before brakes lock my wheels and truck slide in to the kerb on curve. the better option was to release brakes and back on the road. Even when hit the rear of that f LGV. I think i could stop before with 2 meters more space which I lost with brake lock
48 weekly average time was calculated well by transport operator in other company on tachomaster from my digital card. Average for 27 week is 50.5 h / week.
Worker Type
Mobile Night Worker - under the Road Transport Directive Worker
Report Period 27 Weeks
27-10-2014 to 03-05-2015
Total hours worked
1362hrs 42mins
Total hours on break
222hrs 6mins
Total hours on POA
lOhrs 8mins
Total hours on leave
96hrs (12 days)
Average hours/week
50hrs 28mins
Working Time Summary 27-10-2014 to 23-02-2015 (first 17weeks period)
Work Hours 841:09
POA Hours 09:30
Annual Leave Days 3 , Sick 0
Total Hours 865.09
Average Hours 50.53
Abs warning light fault was reported minimum 2 times in defect book - and they told me it just a light.
On disciplinary they just told me that somebody said the abs was ok when accident happend with no proofs on papers. etc
ANd also they wrote my hours was legal too.
Number one rule of ‘old skool’ truck driving … bring the truck back home in one piece - nothing else is relevant.
If the truck’s off the road it aint earning money for anyone. WTD is just a Mickey Mouse thing that few people take seriously, but a damaged truck is going to put your former employers insurance costs up.
The Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations 2005
4. Working time
(2) In any reference period which is applicable to his case, a mobile worker’s working time shall not exceed an average of 48 hours for each week.
(3) An employer shall take all reasonable steps, in keeping with the need to protect the health and safety of the mobile worker, to ensure that the limits specified above are complied with in the case of each mobile worker employed by him.
…
11. An employer of a mobile worker shall:
(c) keep records which are adequate to show whether the requirements of these Regulations are being complied with in the case of each mobile worker employed by him to whom they apply;
(d) retain such records for at least two years after the end of the period covered by those records;
(e) provide, at the request of a mobile worker, a copy of the record of hours worked by that worker;
…
17. —(1) Any person who fails to comply with any of the relevant requirements shall be guilty of an offence.
(3) It is an offence for a person —
(f) to make a statement which he knows to be false or recklessly to make a statement which is false where the statement is made in purported compliance with a requirement to furnish any information imposed by or under these Regulations.
Offences by bodies corporate
19. —(1) Where an offence committed by a body corporate is proved to have been committed with the consent or connivance of, or to have been attributable to any neglect on the part of, any director, manager, secretary or other similar officer of the body corporate or a person who was purporting to act in any such capacity, he as well as the body corporate shall be guilty of that offence and shall be liable to be proceeded against and punished accordingly.
All them things are only important if somebody die
The Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations 2005
4. Working time
(2) In any reference period which is applicable to his case, a mobile worker’s working time shall not exceed an average of 48 hours for each week.
(3) An employer shall take all reasonable steps, in keeping with the need to protect the health and safety of the mobile worker, to ensure that the limits specified above are complied with in the case of each mobile worker employed by him.
…
11. An employer of a mobile worker shall:
(c) keep records which are adequate to show whether the requirements of these Regulations are being complied with in the case of each mobile worker employed by him to whom they apply;
(d) retain such records for at least two years after the end of the period covered by those records;
(e) provide, at the request of a mobile worker, a copy of the record of hours worked by that worker;
…
17. —(1) Any person who fails to comply with any of the relevant requirements shall be guilty of an offence.
(3) It is an offence for a person —
(f) to make a statement which he knows to be false or recklessly to make a statement which is false where the statement is made in purported compliance with a requirement to furnish any information imposed by or under these Regulations.
Offences by bodies corporate
19. —(1) Where an offence committed by a body corporate is proved to have been committed with the consent or connivance of, or to have been attributable to any neglect on the part of, any director, manager, secretary or other similar officer of the body corporate or a person who was purporting to act in any such capacity, he as well as the body corporate shall be guilty of that offence and shall be liable to be proceeded against and punished accordingly.
All them things are only important if somebody die
No point having an obsession with the WTD, when you no longer have a job. You crashed someone else’s vehicle through your own negligence, which is tough but it happened.
People drove trucks and buses before the WTD and unless I am missing something, they are STILL working the same long hours. Just keep putting on rest and poa whenever you get the opportunity and you’ll figure out why some folks work 60+ hours per week, month after month.
Not criticising you fella, but WTD truly is Mickey Mouse. I can’t recall anyone ever being busted for not observing it ‘to the letter’. Move on Dude and concentrate on finding another job.
You can quote and go round the houses on this all you want, fact remains you ran into rear of someone, your employer terminated you and like it or not that is the end of !
Go find another job as you don’t have anything to claim against your old employer.
You can begrudge them all you want, it won’t change anything
ChrisWhgv:
Thanks all. I am gonna move on.
I calculate as you did explain stopping distance 40mph is 36 meters on dry in highway code that why because was wet and I drove less then 40mph i assuming about 64 meters in my situation.
ChrisWhgv:
Working Time Summary 27-10-2014 to 23-02-2015 (first 17weeks period)
Work Hours 841:09
POA Hours 09:30
Annual Leave Days 3 , Sick 0
Total Hours 865.09
Average Hours 50.53
Abs warning light fault was reported minimum 2 times in defect book - and they told me it just a light.
On disciplinary they just told me that somebody said the abs was ok when accident happend with no proofs on papers. etc
ANd also they wrote my hours was legal too.
True. No rights at all
Your obsession with the WTD has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that you crashed your truck into the back of a stationary vehicle. Accept what you did and move on instead of trying to shift the blame to someone else.
Hi. I know what i did my friend. And I took a good lesson. And I just trying to find out what should I do in future. Or what I should not.
That was my point to find out opinions about this part of story. Thanks all
My conclusion is:
My employer as a reason could just say - You didnt drive with speed adapted to the condition necessary to avoid a collision. It is clean to let us dismiss you. Thank You. Bye
But they prefer to lie about my statement of mitigation and correct working hours. What, I thing standing opposite : If they alleged, I was tired , and in reality breaching my wtd rights. which is in employer duty of care to keep as safe and fit to drive on the road where everything can happend. I did complain hours but the state it is correct with the law. Done
I had no idea the WTD truly is Mickey Mouse. Thank you for lesson And now i now all breach that so what…
I didnt know too, the employer can treat you like ■■■■ and you have no right unless 24 months. I am very grateful for these Informations.
But I have no clear information what about that abs fault reported in defect book (they said it just the warning light, because is dirty sensor)
They don’t have responsibility to proof , that was checked, fixed etc. ■■?
well said 
