Discussion about Unions

[robroy]

zen369:
Hi there. So I’ve been hearing about unions all my life, but never really understood how they operate. What is your opinion about them, are you part of any and would you recommend them? I found UNITED ROAND TRANSPORT UNION, but not really sure how it operates, from what I know many of the benefits we get nowadays, like sick pay, annual leave and WTD were achieved with the help of unions. Why are so many employers afraid of unions

URTU in my own experience of it,.and opinion.?
Waste of ■■■■ space,.definitely a waste of your subs/money.
I tried for them to get back to me fir some legal help.
They never contacted me back, I had to keep at them.
When I did get through, every excuse under the sun to even start to help me.
When I closed the account with no money sent (after 15 years btw) no end of contact from them asking me why …after I had made it clear in TWO emails previously as to why…

The words ■■■■ and fire spring to mind, but again that is just MY opinions.
Get advice on a better union.

[cav551]

robroy:

Sidevalve:
Unions can be a force for the good; it’s when their leaders start to believe they’re Napoleon (see Scargill, and Lynch in the current day) that the problems start.

Nah, you’re listening too much to the media propaganda mate, don’t fall into the trap.
This is exactly why there is so much anti union feeling in the present generation, divide and conquer, teach a distorted view in schools and across the media,.and the masses swallow it and repeat it with glee.

Scargill was one case, the establishment were out to win him and crush him and his class at whatever cost, opinions on him and his personality and methods are open to discussion on both sides, but he was not ALL bad, just a tad misguided in his methods…different times btw.

As for Lynch, I ain’t having that mate, .I sure as hell wish he or someone like him represented US !

His members don’t have to put up with the types of crap we do.
His members ain’t expected to do.70 hour weeks.
His members are not on paltry wages,.same rate right through.

So cut the man some slack, the establishment and govt’s campaign to discredit and vilify him will be well under way, they do NOT like being taken on by ‘The plebs’
,‘They don.t like it up em’’ as somebody once said.
They arrogantly think in their view we should be '‘Kept in our place’, and on the whole we actually have been since the 80s (especially in THIS job) …For the reasons I pointed out in my first paragraph.

Our industry could DEMAND wtf we wanted, and then some, we could close the country down a lot more than the rail industry ever could.

What is the point of him saying …''Right, if you refuse to negotiate we will stop trains between the hours of midnight to 3 am ‘’ of course they have to unfortunately cause a lot of disruption to hammer home their points, but it is then used to ■■■■ them in the eyes of the public,.again via media,
whilst leaving those who will not give way looking like the innocent party.

I would also prefer to work with some of those guys in that job with a bit of backbone, and who are not afraid to fight for their own welfare and good, than (and unlike) some of the sorry arsed limp wristed yes men and arse crawlers that accept any ■■■■■■■ thing chucked at them with zero resistance, who we are forced to work alongside…ie the majority of the workforce, unfortunately for the rest of us.

So before you make generalised and sweeping statements about a guy representing other guys just like us, just compare the 2 worlds,…
The one where somebody like Lynch is standing up for you.
Then one ran by haulage company bosses, with their ■■■■ take policies towards their drivers.

In fact you don’t even have to go THAT far, just compare a driver working for a firm like mine and his t.s and c.s, to one working for a recognised union firm that gets things done for it’s drivers,.and looks after them…it ain’t complicated to suss out who is better off, and those firms ARE out there,.but not in my area .

And… breathe out.
Cheers.
It’s been a while since I had a ‘‘rant’’ on here.

YES Well said Robroy. I completely agree, Mick Lynch is doing an excellent job for his members. It is a pity he doesn’t represent more of the working population. As far as “we” are concerned do not forget that RMT stands for the National Union of Rail, Maritime and TRANSPORT Workers. You can join either individually or collectively where you work. The RMT have been recruiting actively in our sector for the last few years.

[switchlogic]

I’ve gone the other way. I was a proper little centre right chap when young with the usual Thatcherite view of unions but as I get older I’m increasingly left wing and support unions fully. Sadly Thatcher destroyed public opinion about them and they’ve still not recovered

[switchlogic]

robroy:

Sidevalve:
Unions can be a force for the good; it’s when their leaders start to believe they’re Napoleon (see Scargill, and Lynch in the current day) that the problems start.

Nah, you’re listening too much to the media propaganda mate,

Clipped

And… breathe out.
Cheers.
It’s been a while since I had a ‘‘rant’’ on here.

Best post you’ve ever written that. Couldn’t have put it better myself

[dozy]

Don’t listen to the media propaganda, some of us we’re there in the 80,s , we saw the ■■■■■■■ idiots ( unions ) for ourselves , strikes over ■■■■■■■ coffee machines , changed canteen menus , unanimous votes not to strike , apparently the union saw it as a unanimous vote to strike , shop stewards who never did a stroke of work, going home because the temp hadnt reached the correct tempature , well it wouldnt when the shop stewards had all the workshop doors wide open
Then there was if your machine broke down you had to book on a red card , sit there , when there was another 20 of exactly the same machine stood idle , night after night
Ask the workers who couldn’t pay there bills as there were always on strike what they thought of it , why do you think engineering in this country was decimated , because no - one did anything as they were on strike/ walking out every week
Absolute ■■■■ show , ■■■■■■■ bullocks , walking out because the bloody coffee machine was broke
I just wonder if this mick Lynch you all look upto is being paid while all his members are getting sfa , don’t bother answering I already
know the answer
I think the above was one of the most condescending post I’ve ever seen on this board , absolute joke , telling me I shouldn’t believe what I read , I don’t need to read anything I was there & seen the ■■■■ show with my own 2 eyes , what ■■■■■■■ arrogance to tell a 61 yrs old don’t believe what you read , who the ■■■■■■■ hell do you think your talking to rob , you might get away with it with the kids on here but I’m too old to be told anything by anyone , I’d wind it in a bit if I was you

[switchlogic]

You’re 61? Bugger me I thought you were 15

[robroy]

dozy:
, don’t bother answering I already
know the answer

Ok doze…nee bother mate,.as we say up here.

(Still stand by EVERYthing I said though. )

[robroy]

By the way where do you buy these machines that make you ■■■■ coffee.
I like the sound of them,.much more convenient than stopping at a Gregg’s.

[mac12]

Robroy I work on the railway so maybe I could correct a couple of things. Up until October we did do 70 hour weeks but that’s now 60, I am booked to work a permanent 42 hour week and in the first 23 days of each month I only get 2 days off

[robroy]

mac12:
Robroy I work on the railway so maybe I could correct a couple of things. Up until October we did do 70 hour weeks but that’s now 60, I am booked to work a permanent 42 hour week and in the first 23 days of each month I only get 2 days off

Ok thanks for that info mate, maybe I was being a bit presumptuous after all then.
The 70 hours,you mention…was that optional or generally expected?

Of those 70 hours was it 40 basic and 30 at time and a half or what?

I (through choice) do a max week between 45 and 53 ish hours,. depending on what’s to complete on my last day (Saturday)
Sometimes a ‘just run back in’ morning to lunchtime finish,.sometimes an early evening if there is more to do,…so it’s swings and roundabouts, but a 3 to 3 and a half day weekend off is the bonus.

I have done all the maxing out stuff in the past, weekending away, 5 to 7 nights out a week ■■■■■■■■, .and saw the light,.(albeit a maybe bit late) but maybe if I had been on the t.s and c s of 40 basic plus proper overtime rate,.I may well have stayed on it and sorted a decent pension fund out of it.with an earlier retirement option.

So…As a employee on the railways,.what is your opinion of your union, it’s motives,.and it’s leader.?

[robroy]

Edit…
Double posted , sorry.

[mac12]

Robroy i work a basic week of 35 hours but am booked to work average 42 hour week anything over 35 is paid between time and quarter and time and half or double and treble for Bank Holiday days, because the railway is so sort staffed it would stop without overtime so rosters are always wanting more hours
My opinion of the union depends on who your local rep is some are brilliant some such as the one now are a waste of space
Mick lynch is a strange one when he’s just surrporting us workers then I agree with him it’s just when he goes on about taking the money off the rich to share it out that I wonder how many rich people will stay here if they haven’t any money

[robroy]

mac12:
Robroy i work a basic week of 35 hours but am booked to work average 42 hour week anything over 35 is paid between time and quarter and time and half or double and treble for Bank Holiday days, because the railway is so sort staffed it would stop without overtime so rosters are always wanting more hours
My opinion of the union depends on who your local rep is some are brilliant some such as the one now are a waste of space
Mick lynch is a strange one when he’s just surrporting us workers then I agree with him it’s just when he goes on about taking the money off the rich to share it out that I wonder how many rich people will stay here if they haven’t any money

Yeh ok, but to get off topic for a minute.that will never happen.
The rich and the upper classes have always looked after themselves, mostly at our expense, the establishment always see to that.

Said establishment are happy as pigs in ■■■■ as to how the working classes have become, very little resistance to injustices and unfairness, and where older members of the work force who should be old enough and wise enough to know better (cough cough dozy ) lambasting unions for fighting for rights,.and generally getting his surgical truss in a twist having a pop at me.

I too worked in engineering as a boy same time as dozy, at the time when Unions developed far too much power, as far as to the point where the tail was wagging the dog, which was deffo out of order…
But today we are at the other end of the spectrum to the point where the dog has had it’s tail (and balls) cut off… so one situation is as bad as the other.

I notice now that a few industries rightly or wrongly have gone for the striking option, but my mixed feelings compete with each other on this.
On one side good on em, stick it to em at last, but on the other side, is it the right time when the economy is on it’s knees after the great Covid fiasco?

The firm my wife works for as a transport administrator does look after them tbf, but even they are tightening up…but not on the ‘top bosses’ side of things.
Overtime has been stopped on the ‘shop floor’ but a fleet of top of the range exec cars have just been delivered, along with other similar aspects of blue collar/white collar differences, the ''we’re all in the same boat ‘’ gesture of ordering cheaper lower spec but more than adequate for the job type cars was not even considered…just one example .

As I’ve often said on here. …The old style class system in this country is alive and well.

[yorkshire_tramper]

Massive difference between workforces on strike in comparison to the average lorry driver. If you look at who is on strike they are pretty much on decent wages now.
They are not having to work 15 hrs a day to earn a living wage. They do not accept that their terms and conditions should be lowered down to a drivers T&Cs & wages due to inflation.
They stick together and their Unions are fighting for them as they know they have solidarity amongst themselves.
Unfortunately drivers have a mindset of being yes men and will moan & groan to each other rather than actually do anything about it, they accept that their roles are driven by working ridiculous hours in order to receive a liveable wage.
The management like lorry drivers to have low wages in order to exploit them into these hours as the eastern european workers are now thin on the ground.
A few threats of reduced hours and redundancies is enough to frighten the majority of lorry drivers to stay away from Unions and avoid any strike action even keeping their wages low enough that the average driver sees the union subs as an unnecessary expense. This is not a mindset in every case that every lorry driver has but pretty much the majority. Otherwise every haulage firm would have a union and non union members would be in the minority.

[juddian]

I think now is the wrong time for strikes, our country is suffering the results of 3 decades of ■■■■ poor government and we’re heading rapidly round the U bend, there’s going to be high numbers of redundancies anyway and striking may well have not the desired result, when the signing of new worse than before contracts may be the only way to restart after the strike is over.
We’re in unchartered territory now.

Whilst i’m a big supporter of unions who on the whole have been good for working people, workers themselves are often their own worse enemies.

Yes we all want decent terms and conditions, but the compnay has to be productive and make a profit otherwise there’s no business, so anyone with their head screwed on if they have a good number ought to give 100% all the time to each do their part in keeping the company efficient and profitable, how many good jobs have gone by the wayside because well paid and termed employees couldn’t be arsed to do any work and took the ■■■■ out of the sick pay just to add insult to injury…which in our industry ensured dozens of previously dead mans shoes premium own account transport being handed over to the likes of stobbies because the company couldn’t be arsed with trying to sort out idiots who could see no further than the ends of their noses and just handed the transporter out to contract and give some bugger else the headache of herding cats.

[yorkshire_tramper]

Juddian:
I think now is the wrong time for strikes, our country is suffering the results of 3 decades of ■■■■ poor government and we’re heading rapidly round the U bend, there’s going to be high numbers of redundancies anyway and striking may well have not the desired result, when the signing of new worse than before contracts may be the only way to restart after the strike is over.
We’re in unchartered territory now.

Whilst i’m a big supporter of unions who on the whole have been good for working people, workers themselves are often their own worse enemies.

Yes we all want decent terms and conditions, but the compnay has to be productive and make a profit otherwise there’s no business, so anyone with their head screwed on if they have a good number ought to give 100% all the time to each do their part in keeping the company efficient and profitable, how many good jobs have gone by the wayside because well paid and termed employees couldn’t be arsed to do any work and took the ■■■■ out of the sick pay just to add insult to injury…which in our industry ensured dozens of previously dead mans shoes premium own account transport being handed over to the likes of stobbies because the company couldn’t be arsed with trying to sort out idiots who could see no further than the ends of their noses and just handed the transporter out to contract and give some bugger else the headache of herding cats.

So when is a good time to strike? Is it down to the workforce to keep their employers happy by accepting lower wages than rising inflation? Not everyone on strike is a lazy worker, they may have been doing their bit for too long now and this is the last resort, thinking of nurses and ambulance staff here.

[juddian]

Heading into probably the worse financial catastrophy is probably the worse time for anyone to strike.

As for public service workers, different for them, they don’t have to make a profit as the govt just borrows more money for the taxpayer to fund to cover the costs.

Do i think nurses and ambulance strike should strike, no i bloody don’t those jobs require a bit more than its just another job attitude, the emergancy services should have independent panels working their pay out to compare with the private sector (including pension agreements sick cover etc) so everyone is on a level playing field, so they get the pay and hours and conditions they deserve…ie the same as they would in the private sector for skilled work.

[yorkshire_tramper]

Juddian:
Heading into probably the worse financial catastrophy is probably the worse time for anyone to strike.

As for public service workers, different for them, they don’t have to make a profit as the govt just borrows more money for the taxpayer to fund to cover the costs.

Do i think nurses and ambulance strike should strike, no i bloody don’t those jobs require a bit more than its just another job attitude, the emergancy services should have independent panels working their pay out to compare with the private sector (including pension agreements sick cover etc) so everyone is on a level playing field, so they get the pay and hours and conditions they deserve…ie the same as they would in the private sector for skilled work.

Not much sympathy for postal workers or rail workers on strike personally, however we are not looking after our health service and this is the result of years of neglect from investment. I fully support the health workers strike and agree they should have other options rather than this. We seem to be able to find money to support the war in Ukrain as well as the hefty bill for ilegal immigrants staying in hotels.

[alamcculloch]

I see the great paradox of strike action is still with us. Only the well paid can afford the luxury of strike action, if they werent well paid they could not jeopardise a weeks pay. Teachers can down what ever tools they up, but janitors and cleaners cant afford to come out.

[robroy]

alamcculloch:
I see the great paradox of strike action is still with us. Only the well paid can afford the luxury of strike action, if they werent well paid they could not jeopardise a weeks pay. Teachers can down what ever tools they up, but janitors and cleaners cant afford to come out.

Correct but they could ALL afford to come out a while ago, …
Until the absolute brilliant,.and very successful tactic, in the master plan by the Thatcher government, (to make the working class bend and conform. )
The selling of their council houses at bargain basement prices, … so they had commitments to deter strikes , which would result in the loss of their homes.
Better off in personal status, but by Christ they have paid for it ever since in the cost of dwindling terms and conditions in their careers since that time.

Love Maggie or hate her, nobody can refute that she was a brilliant tactician and manipulator.