If a hr manager has a informal chat with you then,ie without giving you a letter or offering you the chance to seek union assistance then gives you a date for your discipline outcome is that allowed.i dont think so as no formal interview has in theory taken place as nothing offical interview wise has taking place.what do you guys think
My view would be that you’re not entitled to union representation at the informal stage.
How can you have a ‘disciplinary’ outcome from an ‘informal’ meeting.A disciplinary hearing automatically means the right to union representation.The idea of calling what is a disciplinary hearing an ‘informal chat’ and then showing the true colours at the end seems to be a case of trying to circumvent that right.In this case the obvious answer,to the statement that the disciplinary outcome would follow the meeting,should have been what disciplinary outcome when there hasn’t yet been a disciplinary hearing.
mick.mh2racing:
My view would be that you’re not entitled to union representation at the informal stage.
If it’s only the ‘informal stage’ then what was meant by the ‘outcome’ will follow rather than a ‘hearing’ will next follow.
Am I right in thinking you have to be given notice of any disciplinary hearing in writing?
busteredwards:
Am I right in thinking you have to be given notice of any disciplinary hearing in writing?
The applicable disciplinary and grievance procedures will be explained on the contract of employment.Usually if it’s subject to union representation you’ll get the relevant notice of the hearing from the workplace union rep who’ll usually be the first to know about all the relevant issues related to the case not the employee.That’s ‘if’ the union representation is any good at the place in question.If not then it’s anyone’s guess what type of managment imposed anarchy can take place.
If your HR manager has an “informal” chat with you, that’s all it is…informal.
If he then decides to give some form of disciplinary action, i.e. a warning (written or verbal) and places it on your record then it has become a formal interview and you should have been notified of the accusation, the date of the hearing and the opportunity to have a colleague or representation with you.
Well worth insisting on having someone with you at the “outcome” meeting ,which I think will be the actual disciplinary hearing.
If it isn’t, possibly challenging the decisions based on the HR originally not following procedure may be the way to go.
Of course that will depend on the circumstances and the severity of the offence/discipline and also of the quality of representation you can muster.
Always remember, it’s not the last warning that gets you the sack, it’s the first one!
Thanks guys.basically a friend was taking in for a informal chat,basically told come in for a minute i need a word type thing.then two days later he has a discipline hearing,not a interview but a outcome hearing.i thought it was bogus just needed a second opinion.cheers
At my place they call it a ‘fact finding mission’.
You can have union rep with you at any meeting.
At my place we NEVER talk to management without union rep or another driver as a witness.
I would look more closely at this and not dismiss it as just a chat,it’s more than likely a meeting to gather all the info prior to deciding the next step.
My mate is a union convenor and was chatting about this a few months ago.
Rambo beat me to it 
Even a verbal warning must be minuted. You are entitled to representation for any type of disciplinary action. Go in monday and ask for a copy of the minutes of your meeting. If they cannot supply anything then no meeting happened simple as that.
These minutes must also have been signed by all involved including yourself.
Don’t trust a HR manager; The most devious arse holes in any company. They justify their existence by trawling through rule books and h&s rules to stay in a job.
Informal chats are unrecorded opportunities to drop yourself in the excrement. Come the real thing, anything you mentioned would’ve been twisted in advance to suit them.
Spam-Javelin:
Even a verbal warning must be minuted. You are entitled to representation for any type of disciplinary action. Go in monday and ask for a copy of the minutes of your meeting. If they cannot supply anything then no meeting happened simple as that.
correct! 
tell your FRIEND 
to buy a dictaphone ASAP! 
the ball is rolling! 
sneaky little bar stewards HR
Yeah they done my friend over rotten.ive told him to fight it but he is wanting to hand his notice in.he seems gutted they treated him like this
Lesson learned here is that you are a fool for turning in for work without one of these… ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksi … &_from=R40
nearly there:
Yeah they done my friend over rotten.ive told him to fight it but he is wanting to hand his notice in.he seems gutted they treated him like this
Fight it as much as possible. They would’ve made a decision and found him guilty of whatever but they must be seen to do it by the book. By fighting it you force them into doing more work and cause them an inconvenience. Simply giving up makes them look right.
Makes me want to put my name in for the shop steward role.i hate to see people being done over like this.at least id have the knowledge to back people up
to be honest there is no such thing as an informal chat they normally still record it on your personnel file that you’ve been spoken to so id ge a witness in always
I would re-visit your companys procedures , every companys procedures can be different and it sounds like yours is. Dont assume anything until you have obtained a written copy of the procedures and any working agreement that may exist on your site. I have worked for several companies over the years and each one has had their own unique way of dealing with disciplinary issues. Do your homework then decide what to do next.