Digital Tachograph 'Fundamentally Flawed' Says RHA

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
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I’m glad someone else has noticed.

Digital tachographs over-record time driven by lorry drivers, says the Road Haulage Association.

“The new digital tachographs are fundamentally flawed and unreliable. We have demonstrated that, under a range of circumstances, they will show that the driver spent more time driving than was actually the case because they have ‘rounded up’ part-minutes to full minutes," says RHA chief executive Roger King. “Hauliers are losing productivity as a result.”

“We need urgent clarification of what is VOSA’s approach on enforcement, and I have written to VOSA chief executive Stephen Tetlow.
“In the meantime, we are advising operators that they should be aware that trucks fitted with digital tachographs are liable to record an inflated driving time and that the attitude of law enforcers is uncertain.”

The RHA carried out a study, in conjunction with Volvo Trucks, that involved two trucks doing identical work, back to back. The vehicle fitted with the digital tachograph recorded significantly more driving time than that of the analogue tachograph. The issue is particularly clear in operations such as multi-drop.

Full results of the study will be published in Roadway magazine’s April issue.
King revealed the finding at an IRU meeting in Brussels last Thursday. Strong concern was shown by delegates, including Denmark, where a survey done with hauliers produced similar results, and from France, which has requested that operators be given the option to have analogue tachographs in new trucks, until such time as this issue is resolved.

Typical of the French. And I can see their forthcoming ban on smoking in public venues really being accepted.

John Major, in his period of being Prime Minister, made a speech in which he spoke along the lines of, “Whilst we have to encompass European legislation, we don’t necesarily have to be over zealous in enforcing it.” Which is perhaps something that the current Labour Government should have borne in mind over the hounding of the ‘Metric Martyrs’. Steve Thorburn. R.I.P.

But that’s a side issue.

What I can’t get my head around is the justification that, whilst we are obligated to comply with ‘hours’ regulations which are specified ‘to the minute’, the EU has granted approval of the use equipment that ‘adds’ two minutes (or as good as).

Off road driving, now becoming part of ‘driving’. Typical scenario. Fill the vehicle at the pump. Pull forward 15’ to fill the trailer tank, and that records two minutes onto your driving time. I could push the ■■■■ thing quicker. :unamused:

I can envisage some interesting Court cases where evidence from a device that is designed to be inherently innacurate under one EU directive is used to enforce legislation specified in a different EU directive.

I’ve even heard of instances where, with a vehicle being on a bay, someone has been a bit ‘over enthusiastic’ with an MHE machine and the Digital Tachograph has sensed ‘movement’, and changed the setting off ‘Rest’.

How that can happen? I’m almost at a loss to understand. With the parking brake ON, the drive axle just isn’t going to rotate. Do we now have vehicles with ‘sender units’ connected to the steered wheels? None that I’m aware of. If these recording devices are subject to ‘shock’ activation then, certainly in this Country, there is a likelyhood that weather conditions or normal roadside traffic could change the setting whilst the driver is sleeping.

There are inherent flaws in these devices which need to be addressed as a matter of priority.

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We have demonstrated that, under a range of circumstances, they will show that the driver spent more time driving than was actually the case because they have ‘rounded up’ part-minutes to full minutes," says RHA chief executive Roger King. “Hauliers are losing productivity as a result.”

If the loss of several minutes is such a problem, should the company be in business in the first place if they’re having to run that tight? Also, if they’re running that tight, what pressure are they putting on the driver which is also illegal to do?

I’m sorry but personally I see it as a non story. A driver shouldn’t be running so tight that a few minutes lost becomes life or death.

As for the loading bay scenario, when the weight of a truck is put on the back of a lorry then as the suspension goes down, the wheels rotate slightly. There’s nothing you can do about it apart from drop all the air out of the suspension when you’ve gone onto a bay. Depending on where the sensor position is, it could record a pulse.

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We have one run thats ok in reality ie it can be done in 8 to 8 1/2 hours driving time. But throw in some traffic problem that are more than normal and suddenly those spare minutes are valuble. So should the firm I work for not be in business?

Daft argument!

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digis do rob you of time
i have been using one since nov . have done print outs ( being nosy )
it can record a period of time lets for arguments sake say 30 mins and in that 30 mins i have done 36 mins driving
my run takes me down the m1 and into london at night and you want to see it clock up the driving minutes when your in the Q into the roadworks fighting to keep your place with all the numptys hareing down towards the cones or up the hard shoulder to get to the front
i am normally a very forgiving sort of driver but if you dont hold your place you’d still be there when the finish lake next year
i have also stoped and noted my driving time put the pad down poured my drink gone to set the head to rest and the time has gone up when the engine aint on and the brakes are applied

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If it can be accurate in recording rest time, ie 29 in rest mode is 15 minutes rest, how come driving time can be innacurate?
Heads they win tails you lose!
Or is this a case for challenging driving time. They can’t claim it’s accurate in one mode and not in another.

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im glad someones put it in black and white as weve had some right hum-dingers with the t.o over jobs that were doable when we had ano but arnt doable with digis, wouldnt believe us they ate time .

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Now then, lets see if I’ve got this right.

A straight forward run takes lets say 4 hours. If there is an accident or some other hold up, it could take 4:15 actual driving time. with another 20 mins sitting still in the queue.

On an analogue tacho, that would add up to 4:35 driving time. You can’t call time spent behind the wheel with the engine running as anything other than driving time.
You then endorse the back of your disc with the reason for exceeding your drive time

On a digi-tacho it could add several more minutes to your actual driving time, but it counts time stopped as other work. So the drive time could be 4:25 or more for exactly the same run with some o/w as well.
You then take a print-out and endorse it with the reason for exceeding your drive time, if it records over 4:30 drive time…

In both cases you could have done more than 9 hours drive time by the time you get back to the yard. You therefore only have 1 more shift when you can exceed 9 hours driving. It’s up to your manager to make sure your other shifts will be 9 hours driving or less. You have to inform them of the problem of course, they can’t read minds strangely enough.

bagpuss:
it can record a period of time lets for arguments sake say 30 mins and in that 30 mins i have done 36 mins driving

.
Take that print-out with you when you go to court, there is no way in this world that you can be convicted for driving 36 minutes in a 30 minute period of time.

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If you get stopped by Vosa and they will request a print out be sure not to sign it as you are admitting the offence if one is present on that day.
Also if it goes to court and you have the print out its no good after so long anyway as the ink disappears!!!

The other day i got held up in traffic.My tacho timer says 4hrs 15. Digital tacho says 4hrs45. Even though it swaps to other work when you stop it still rounds up the seconds to minutes every time you start and stop. I try to keep it rolling as you lose no time that way although not always possible

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ex muppet:
The other day i got held up in traffic.My tacho timer says 4hrs 15. Digital tacho says 4hrs45. Even though it swaps to other work when you stop it still rounds up the seconds to minutes every time you start and stop.

That isn’t good.

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Conor:
As for the loading bay scenario, when the weight of a truck is put on the back of a lorry then as the suspension goes down, the wheels rotate slightly. There’s nothing you can do about it apart from drop all the air out of the suspension when you’ve gone onto a bay. Depending on where the sensor position is, it could record a pulse.

Whilst I can accept that the axle moves on the suspension, in a rotational plane, the relationship between the drive shaft and the differential (and hence the ‘prop’ shaft and the ‘sender’ unit) remains constant. Any transfer of energy experienced by the ‘Prop’ shaft (and hence, the ‘sender’ unit’) would be in a ‘lateral’ plane. i.e. The ‘Prop’ shaft shortens or lengthens. It doesn’t rotate.

After all these years of design, testing, and agreeing a common ‘spec’, they have simply got it wrong.

Typical of the EU.
:unamused: :unamused: :unamused:

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Krankee:
After all these years of design, testing, and agreeing a common ‘spec’, they have simply got it wrong.

Typical of the EU.
:unamused: :unamused: :unamused:

I’m totally in favour of the eu, which has brought massive benefits to ordinary working people.

Firstly the cleanliness of sea water which is obviously of interest to anyone who lives on the coast, as I do.

Secondly the increase in annual holidays from 2 weeks to 4 weeks…you can bet your bottom dollar that no British PM would consider “lorry drivers” to be worth such an indulgance, or quality time.

Thirdly I suppose “The Whole Deal” . The concept that even though I do manual work, I’m not a disposable commodity and that my continued existance is cheaper than a protective hat…

I’m totally in favour of the eu. Let’s give everything to them.