Digicard left in truck - serious offense?

ASK THE EXPERTS SAFETY, LAW AND WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE FORUM (INTE
1

I recently finished a shift, did a printout but unfortunately forgot to take my digicard out of the head. I have received a threatening letter from work stating that VOSA class this as a serious offense & they (my employers) will be taking disciplinary action against me.

Obviously I should have removed my card, I know that but is it really that serious? Lots of people must forget on occasion. BTW this is the first time I have done this in 3+ years working for them.

Is there any documentation on the VOSA website relating to this “serious offense?”.

2

ive done it about 3 times at tesco and only realised by the time i get home, never had anything said about it except that im a numpty lol

3

Bepto:
I recently finished a shift, did a printout but unfortunately forgot to take my digicard out of the head. I have received a threatening letter from work stating that VOSA class this as a serious offense & they (my employers) will be taking disciplinary action against me.

Obviously I should have removed my card, I know that but is it really that serious? Lots of people must forget on occasion. BTW this is the first time I have done this in 3+ years working for them.

Is there any documentation on the VOSA website relating to this “serious offense?”.

What does this threatening letter say? How does the company discipline you for a non offence?

If you did a print out, what was the reason? Do another print out for that day or write on the original that you forgot to remove your card. They normally will not hang you for it, and it is the reason for having the digital printouts to explain deviations and diversions from the rules.

I imagine any VOSA inspector would look at the explanation and tell you to be more careful in future

4

The letter reads…

"It is with deep disappointment that I am formally writing to you regarding you having left your digicard in the head. As VOSA classes this as a serious offence, this conduct will need to be rectified immediately.
You should know a turnaround in this situation is expected and that failure to achieve this may result in diciplinary action against you, with repeated failures ultimately resulting in the termination of your employment.
If you are having difficulties meeting this request please contact your line manager who will be able to discuss the options available to you."

I reckon they are just flexing their muscles but what does concern me is that if they are “formally” writing to me then I guess this would be classed as a written warning. Now that would affect me in the long term because we are due a large share payout in 2012 but it is dependent on satisfactory performance, I think a written warning will scupper my chances of this payout.

BTW the company and all the management in the transport dept are complete a***oles as you can probably tell from the content of the letter and the grammar.

5

take the letter with you when u go see them next, drop ur trousers and wipe ur backside with it then give them it back because its not an offence to leave ur card in the tacho head.

6

Bepto:
The letter reads…

"It is with deep disappointment that I am formally writing to you regarding you having left your digicard in the head. As VOSA classes this as a serious offence, this conduct will need to be rectified immediately.
You should know a turnaround in this situation is expected and that failure to achieve this may result in diciplinary action against you, with repeated failures ultimately resulting in the termination of your employment.
If you are having difficulties meeting this request please contact your line manager who will be able to discuss the options available to you."

I reckon they are just flexing their muscles but what does concern me is that if they are “formally” writing to me then I guess this would be classed as a written warning. Now that would affect me in the long term because we are due a large share payout in 2012 but it is dependent on satisfactory performance, I think a written warning will scupper my chances of this payout.

BTW the company and all the management in the transport dept are complete a***oles as you can probably tell from the content of the letter and the grammar.

I think they are flexing muscles too, but Neil Coffeholic will answer the definitive question I believe.

Here is what I found on the VOSA website.

An examiner will always consider the full circumstances of the situation and of the offence when reaching a decision whether to take no further action, give a verbal warning, issue an offence rectification notice (ORN), issue a prohibition notice (mechanical, weight, drivers’ hours, dangerous goods, absence of a foreign vehicles permit), issue a fixed penalty (or, in Scotland, offer a conditional offer) or report for a court summons. Examiners will consider any mitigating or exacerbating factors which may be present and make informed decisions before taking any action.

The definitive device for recording drivers’ hours under EC or AETR is the tachograph, whether analogue or digital. A driver is required to comply with the regulations using the specified recording equipment. Subject to any statutory requirements or manipulation of the data (such as suspected tampering), examiners will take the information recorded by the tachograph and base their compliance checks on those records. Where appropriate, reference may also be made to other documents available, for example time sheets and delivery documents.

Level 4
£200
Fail to ensure proper use of driver card.
Section 97(1)(a) of the Transport Act 1968
Article 13 Regulation3821/85/EEC

Failure to ensure the proper use of the driver card
Article 13 Regulation 3821/85/EEC
£200

7

VOSA classes this as a serious offence

Ask the compaany to show you this offence on a VOSA site or publication :bulb:

8

They would just talk their way out of that one - I’d much rather show them proof from VOSA myself that it isn’t an offense and get them to retract the letter and apologise.

9

Bepto:
They would just talk their way out of that one - I’d much rather show them proof from VOSA myself that it isn’t an offense and get them to retract the letter and apologise.

It is certainly not an offence to leave the card in overnight, providing the mode switch is on rest, if you left it on otherwork or poa than a simple explanation on the printout should suffice, (IN THE UK)

Many of us leave the card in overnight, totally legally, provided you have used the menu to select country/region and answered the end of shift question by using the OK button.

From Novadata

Q
Can I leave my driver card in the vehicle unit overnight?

A
Yes, you can leave your driver card in all week (company operational procedures permitting) if you want, remembering to change the mode to ‘rest’ and select end location before you go home and ‘other work’ and select start location when you arrive.

From me & Google.

Drivers must record the country in which they begin and end their daily work period. This must always be carried out at the time of the start or end of the period, even if the card is not to be withdrawn or inserted (for example if the card is left in overnight);

From Me.
Unlike the analogue wax chart it doesn’t matter if you leave the digital card in for longer than 24 hours as the digital card does not overwrite the data.

So I would cause ructions and ask for the VOSA information from your company. You may have made a simple mode switch error which you explain on the printout, simples.

I will watch any other answers with interest

10

Simply leaving the tacho card in the Vehicle Unit (VU) overnight isn’t an offence in itself. In fact most European enforcement agencies require you to record daily and often weekly rest periods on the driver card. To do that you would have to leave it in the VU, or make manual entries at the time of next insertion.

If you mistakenly left the card in overnight was the record made something other than rest? Strictly speaking that is an offence but most officers would call you something along the lines of ‘Numpty,’ and that is as far as it would go. Failing to put start and end locations on the record if the card is left in overnight is again an offence, again, most would ignore it in the case of a genuine error.

I wouldn’t loose much sleep over this one. Don’t think written warnings are allowed to stay on your record for very long (six months springs to mind) but others will know better than me. Did your employer provide suitable training for you on the use of the VU and your digital card?

11

Thanks for the input guys, I am not worried about VOSA coming and dragging me away in cuffs just yet :laughing:.

I think I am going to write a letter back asking for some sort of"official" evidence as to the nature of the offense I am supposed to have committed. I would suspect though that given that they wont be able to find anything from VOSA they will resort to the usual get-out clause and say its “company policy” that has been contravened. Any tips for content greatly appreciated.

12

Bepto:
The letter reads…

"It is with deep disappointment that I am formally writing to you regarding you having left your digicard in the head. As VOSA classes this as a serious offence, this conduct will need to be rectified immediately.

Bepto:
Any tips for content greatly appreciated

how about this… not brilliant at this sort of thing…

Re: - leaving digicard in tachograph when not on shift.
Dear sir,
I have investigated this issue and have not been able to find any law, rule or company policy that states this practice is not to be done.
I do not therefore accept any warning or disciplinary action for doing so.
I am willing to reconsider my position on this issue should you furnish me with documented proof from any official source or the company policy handbook
yours …

:bulb: :question:

13

Bepto:
Thanks for the input guys, I am not worried about VOSA coming and dragging me away in cuffs just yet :laughing:.

I think I am going to write a letter back asking for some sort of"official" evidence as to the nature of the offense I am supposed to have committed. I would suspect though that given that they wont be able to find anything from VOSA they will resort to the usual get-out clause and say its “company policy” that has been contravened. Any tips for content greatly appreciated.

Before you start writing letters and so forth you better decide the tone of your response based on the ‘offence’.

Was it left on rest and no one else used the vehicle?

Was it left on rest and someone else was going to use the vehicle and found your card? I suspect this is likely the case otherwise they would not have known you left the card in.

Did you leave it in the unit and forget to set the correct mode?

Did you leave it in the vehicle and forget to set the end country?

The answers to the above will have to set the tone of your letter.

If you answer yes to the first question I would suggest writing and saying they are idiots as leaving the card in is not an offence and also suggest they undertake some basic tacho training.

If you answered yes to the second question I would suggest writing and apologising for the inconvenience caused to the other driver and while you realise your error it was simply that, an error and did not contravene any tacho regulations.

If you answered yes to either of the remaining questions I would suggest writing and apologising for the minor offences you have committed, that you realise you have committed these offences and have taken a printout to correct them. You could also ask why they did not mention these legitimate offences in their letter and instead warned you about a non existent offence. You could also say you are slightly concerned by the fact they missed actual offences and invented one instead and it might be an idea if they undertook some tacho training to avoid missing actual offences in the future.

Failing that phone VOSA in their presence, put it on speaker phone, ask if leaving the card in is an offence and watch them squirm.

If it turns out to be company policy you could enquire as to why company policy is the opposite of the regulations and suggest it would make more sense if company policy and the regulations were aligned rather than opposed.

14

I suspect that I did set the end country but probably left the mode switch on the default setting which would be wrong. I would have thought that the next driver to use the truck removed it and handed it in, this would have been within 8-15 hours of me finishing my shift. I’m lucky it was my weekly rest period straight after though because I know that in the past they have sent drivers home at the start of their shift if their card has been found in the head and made them have 11 hours off!!

15

Bepto:
I suspect that I did set the end country but probably left the mode switch on the default setting which would be wrong. I would have thought that the next driver to use the truck removed it and handed it in, this would have been within 8-15 hours of me finishing my shift. I’m lucky it was my weekly rest period straight after though because I know that in the past they have sent drivers home at the start of their shift if their card has been found in the head and made them have 11 hours off!!

You can either accept the nasty letter or kick up a fuss, obviously that depends on how bad you need the job, but it seems as though the Transport Office need to swot up on the rules and regulations before issuing threats. At my last company, every lorry was identical, we all used digital cards and normally drove our own lorry so we could leave cards in the head if we wanted, unless we knew it was going for service, repair or inspection. BUT. If we did have to drive another truck and found a drivers card in the VU, every one of us would have simply booked that card off, removed it and handed it in to either security or the office with a note if it was open.

It seems like your office need some tuition from VOSA

16

As stated on your letter from the company, it states quite clearly that VOSA regard this as a very serious offence. I would say to them, regarding these remarks supposedly from VOSA, 1. can you show me where i have committed an offence. 2. can you tell me where VOSA has written that i have committed an offence, for i have spoken to VOSA myself, and they have no knowledge of the offence of leaving a digi card in overnight.

I personally leave my card in every night, because i know i will be driving that vehicle the next day, there was one occasion where they decided to service my vehicle overnight without teling me, and when i arrived for work the next day, the mechanic had left my card on the dash, and the mode switch on other work…so i politely told the manager that i would be going home to have my rest period, and in future to let me have prior notice of a vehicle service…which he has done.

In my opinion you have broken a company rule, and not a VOSA rule, but there was no need to send a written warning saying it is an offence by VOSA…so ask them to re-write it, or cancel it for you cannot accept the one as it is written.

17

My card goes in on a monday morning and comes out on the Friday night /saturday morning - sometimes it doesn’t comeout for 4 weeks lol - only if the wagon is going for service or being used by someone else - they have to eject it anyway to insert theirs so as long as its left on break it’ll be fine
my local VOSA love me - he read my card and said it was the easiest to read because of the lack of ejections and interruptions - it show a complete record from start to finish - even let me off on a 4hrs 35 drive lol
cheers
Steve