Kerbdog:
The point being that the ‘legislated device’ would not stand up in a court of law as it doesn’t record the correct time as opposed to the one thing that defines our world / universe…TIME !
The digital tachograph doesn’t have to record the correct duration of driving time, it has to record the driving time within the limits of the specifications given by the EU, which it does if it’s correctly calibrated.
As has been said if the tachograph records 30 minutes driving time, it doesn’t matter whether the wheels have been turning for 28 or 29 or 30 minutes, you’ve used up whatever amount of driving time the tachograph says you’ve used.
Kerbdog:
The point I’m making is that I stopped for several sets of traffic lights, I didn’t drive non stop, hence the addition of several minutes of driving according to the tacho which don’t exist. The law allows for 4hr 30mins of driving. I didn’t drive for 4hr 30m. The legislated device shows that I drove for more than I actually did. If I was prosecuted in a court of law and got the court to watch the whole video of me driving (which would have been less than 4hr 30mins) of their time, then they would laugh at the fact that the device shows 4hr 45mins.
A court wouldn’t be interested any-more than they would be interested if you was on domestic regulations where every minute that you’re sat behind the wheel for the purpose of controlling the vehicle is classed as driving time.
There are faults with the digital tachograph (in my opinion anyway) but as far as booking driving time is concerned you’re still better off than you would be on the the UK domestic regulations.
If you’re on EU regulations the tachograph may rob you of a couple of minutes whilst sat at traffic lights but the UK domestic regulations will rob you of all the time you’re sat not moving which in the case of a blocked road could be a lot more than a couple of minutes.
Kerbdog:
Cheggy:
For anyone to serve time at her majesties hotel you have to be PROVEN to be guilty and be BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT. It is well documented and proven that digi tachos DO NOT record time accurately thus adding doubt.
This is the point that most of you “knowledgable” drivers are missing.
The exact point of the thread !!!
If you regard driving time as the time that the wheels are moving then you’re both right the digital tachograph does not record time accurately, but the point that you’re both refusing to acknowledge is that “driving time” has very little to do with real time as we know it.
As far as the regulations are concerned what’s recorded by the digital tachograph as driving time is driving time, it doesn’t matter if what’s recorded as driving time is 2 minutes less than the wheels have turned every time you move, if it’s recorded as driving time and the tachograph is not faulty then it’s legally driving time, and no UK court would be in a position to overthrow regulations made by the EU.
So while you were stopped at traffic lights, engine running, in charge of the vehicle you weren’t “driving” then. The court of law I suspect would beg to differ were you commiting an offence. 
Hi Tachograph, although I completely agree with your above post (I’m not going to quote it all again).
Is it the reason that if you stop for a Break at 4h 29m Driving by the time the older digital tachograph head recognises the mode change you have clocked 4h 31m Driving on your printout and infringement sheet?
W
This thread sums up what I despise most about driving in Europe. Its not the congestion, its not the small trucks, its not even the work, its the pathetic regulations that have people bickering about 60 seconds here, 35 seconds there, and God forbid anyone should do 3 minutes in excess of their time. It takes longer for most kettles to boil, yet drivers fear fines and potential loss of job for something so pathetically irrellivent.
Below is what I’ve done so far today, I write the lines, I stop when I want to stop and drive when I want to drive and despite driving for for 7.45 continuous today I feel far less stressed than tired than I would had I of being in the UK clock watching and panicing about going one kettle boil or 14 deep breaths over my time.
happysack:
Anyone want some popcorn?
How long will you take getting said popcorn?
mucker85:
happysack:
Anyone want some popcorn?
How long will you take getting said popcorn?
Ages. I offered it 4 days ago.
Kerbdog:
billybigrig:
4.5 as recorded by the legislated device
The point being that the ‘legislated device’ would not stand up in a court of law as it doesn’t record the correct time as opposed to the one thing that defines our world / universe…TIME !
billybigrig:
If you start driving 1 second before the hour and stop one second after, it will record 62 minutes. The reason being you have driven in 62 calender minutes not 60
Yes, for one hours and 2 seconds continous driving. The point I’m making is that I stopped for several sets of traffic lights, I didn’t drive non stop, hence the addition of several minutes of driving according to the tacho which don’t exist. The law allows for 4hr 30mins of driving. I didn’t drive for 4hr 30m. The legislated device shows that I drove for more than I actually did. If I was prosecuted in a court of law and got the court to watch the whole video of me driving (which would have been less than 4hr 30mins) of their time, then they would laugh at the fact that the device shows 4hr 45mins.
Cheggy:
For anyone to serve time at her majesties hotel you have to be PROVEN to be guilty and be BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT. It is well documented and proven that digi tachos DO NOT record time accurately thus adding doubt.
This is the point that most of you “knowledgable” drivers are missing.
The exact point of the thread !!!
Which I think you’ve missed completely. As I understand it, “driving” is when you are in control of the vehicle, whether it is moving or not. Admittedly if you sat at one of those sets of lights for more than a minute the tacho would default to “other work” but the point is that you are still driving the vehicle; so in effect, the tacho actually records LESS driving in stop-start traffic not more if those stops are over a minute. Unless of course you’re one of those who gets the polish out or does his paperwork every time the wheels stop turning. 
Sidevalve:
I understand it, “driving” is when you are in control of the vehicle, whether it is moving or not
You understand incorrectly as far as the tacho regs go.
For the tacho regulations driving is the duration of driving activity recorded recorded by the equipment. Doesn’t matter if the driver thinks it has recorded more driving time than it should or, as in the situation you describe, less than it should; what the tacho unit has recorded as driving time is the amount of driving done, end of.
My company recently put a 59 plate on the road but before we did we changed the digi tacho for a new one and never looked back , no arguing with the times it’s better than running a stopwatch old school stye !!
In a court of law, I’m sure that any evidence recorded by a tachograph or any EU/Home Office Type Approved device would stand up better than any ramblings by the poor sod trying to dis-prove the reliability of such a device. There have been cases of speed cameras/guns vs professors in ‘radarology’, guess who won. I don’t know of any with tachos but I’m pretty sure the Crown would win as they always have when challenged on the workings of devices with Type Approval.
I went to a Transport Managers Tacho Refresher Course last year and the 1st the the instructor said to us all was ““THE DIGITAL TACHORAPH LIES”” he told us all about the faults with the 1st gereration digi’s… The new ones are much more accurate.
The original digitachs must be just about the most vexing piece of technology in today’s trucks (in terms of the excess driving time recorded in stop-start traffic). As stated above, just to be in the driving seat of a vehicle with the engine running (to be in control of the vehicle in other words) is considered driving, although there are instances where you might not actually be in a moving vehicle and yet still be considered as driving it in law, but I digress. So, I presume no-one would consider having the keys out of the ignition would be considered as driving as you would not exactly be in control. This situation could happen in heavy traffic etc. but, again as stated above, this could well be recorded as driving if you moved every couple of minutes, possibly even without the keys in the ignition if e.g. coasting a few yards downhill (though not recommended).
Anyhoo, I have a question about the new digitachs which I hope someone can correctly answer. Someone at work said last week that the new ones record each activity to the second whereas I believe (not having encountered one yet) they round up to a minute the activity with the most seconds recorded within that tacho’s minute, which is not quite the same. Similarly someone else at work said that you have to do manual entries to account for any unaccounted for time on the new’uns which I believe has been touched upon on these forums, but is again disputed at work. Any answers?
Snudger:
The original digitachs must be just about the most vexing piece of technology in today’s trucks (in terms of the excess driving time recorded in stop-start traffic). As stated above, just to be in the driving seat of a vehicle with the engine running (to be in control of the vehicle in other words) is considered driving, although there are instances where you might not actually be in a moving vehicle and yet still be considered as driving it in law, but I digress. So, I presume no-one would consider having the keys out of the ignition would be considered as driving as you would not exactly be in control. This situation could happen in heavy traffic etc. but, again as stated above, this could well be recorded as driving if you moved every couple of minutes, possibly even without the keys in the ignition if e.g. coasting a few yards downhill (though not recommended).
The definition of driving for UK law should not be confused with the definition of driving time for the EU regulations, they’re two separate and different things.
Snudger:
Anyhoo, I have a question about the new digitachs which I hope someone can correctly answer. Someone at work said last week that the new ones record each activity to the second whereas I believe (not having encountered one yet) they round up to a minute the activity with the most seconds recorded within that tacho’s minute, which is not quite the same. Similarly someone else at work said that you have to do manual entries to account for any unaccounted for time on the new’uns which I believe has been touched upon on these forums, but is again disputed at work. Any answers?
Type 2 digital tachographs record a whole minute as the activity that took up the larger part of the minute, so you’re right that they don’t record activities to the nearest second.
On type 1 digital tachograph any missing time between the end of a shift and the start of the next recorded shift was regarded as a rest period, on type 2 digital tachographs you’re prompted to put the rest period in just like any other activity when you’re doing manual entries.
There’s a video in this post that shows the manual entries for ending a shift and starting a new one on a type 2 Siemens digital tachograph.
