Digi tacho's - discussion?

[coffeeholic]

delboytwo:

Coffeeholic:

delboytwo:
with regard the wtd he will have to recored it

If the other work is non transport related he won’t, which is what I said.

OK then your telling me that’s is OK for me to drive 5 days a week which i work under the EU reg and RTD and then i can go and do 2 days flipping burgers and the hours i work at the burger bar does not count for wtd

I can’t tell you it’s OK because it isn’t. You would not be having a weekly rest period as required for the EU Driver’s Hours Regulations. If you did as you outline above you would be contravening the hours regulations but the burgeer flipping would have no impact on the WTD as it applies to mobile workers, those hours would not count toward the 60 hour maximum or 48 hour average.

delboytwo:
but you have said that you need to show what you did on other days not driving

Where did I say that? I said you need to show you have worked but you don’t need to show what you did on each of those days in detail. Name, date, start and finish times are all that is required and that is for the tacho regs not the WTD.

in a week were he also drives under EU rules then he will need a record for each of those non driving days. The record needs be no more than a disc with his name, the date, start and finish times on it, it doesn’t need to be a detailed account.

delboytwo:
and there for if you did wouldn’t you have shown that you had no rest under EU regs if stopped by vosa

In a week in which you drive under EU rules you will have to take a weekly rest period. So work 5 days in an office, fill out a chart for each of those days as detailed above, drive on the 6th day and get stopped by VOSA = no problem. Drive on the 6th and 7th day and get stopped by VOSA = big problem, no weekly rest. You could likely only work one day every 2 weeks as a driver depending on start finish times for both the main job and the driving shift

delboytwo:

What if a worker agrees to work longer hours?

An individual worker may agree to work more than 48 hours a week. If so, he or she should sign an opt-out agreement, which they can cancel at any time. The employer and worker can agree how much notice is needed to cancel the agreement, which can be up to three months. In the absence of an agreed notice period, the worker needs to give a minimum of seven days’ notice of cancellation.

Employers cannot force a worker to sign an opt-out. Any opt-out must be agreed to. Workers cannot be fairly dismissed or subjected to detriment for refusing to sign an opt-out.

Employers must keep a record of who has agreed to work longer hours.

Which is perfect for the part time driver. He has agreed to opt out of the WTD in his main job so the hours he works driving do not impact that and his office hours do not count toward the WTD for mobile workers so he will never come close to teh 48 hour average for that.

delboytwo:
so can i ask you this as a driver we are subject to the RTD and as we can not opt out of it, and this is my main job any other work would come under the WTD which we are still required to follow, unless you have opted out in the second job

If you worked 5 days a week as a driver and did the odd day, one every 2 weeks, at another job you would opt out of the WTD so your driving hours wouldn’t count for it and the odd day would not count toward the RTD so you are fine. By only doing one day every couple of weeks you should be okay regarding weekly rest for the tacho regs.

[coffeeholic]

Mike-C:

delboytwo:
lets say i worked for 48 hour as a driver and did 24 hours as a burger flipper, as we have to recored working time would the burger job be counted in the week or can i dismiss it, and would that work in the burger job affect my EU regs

if you have worked for 48 hours as a driver then you are bound by the RTD , this states that its not possible to ‘work’ for more than 60 hours in one week so you wouldn’t be able to work for another 24 hours .You’d have 12 hours left to work that week.You have two sets of rules to follow, EU driving regs tells you you nned a weely break after 6 shifts and RTD tells you that you cannot work more then 60 hours in one week. Burger job would have to be recorded as you have drove that week.

The burger job would only need to be recorded for tacho rules, not WTD for mobile workers, non transport related work does not count toward the 48/60hours. You could work as a driver for 60 hours** and still put in some hours as a burger flipper, as long as you get the required weekly rest period in for the tacho rules.

**
5x12 hour shifts = 60 hours
Breaks and POA = 10 hours
5x daily rest periods = 49 hours
Reduced weekly rest = 24 hours
Total required for transport job in week 143 hours

Leaves 25 hours available for burger flipping

If you spent 25 hours straight flipping burgers you might be a bit knackered and you would no doubt smell a bit funny but you’ve complied with all the regulations, provided you opt out of WTD for burger flippers.

[mike-c]

Coffeeholic:
non transport related work does not count toward the 48/60hours.

Back to law school for me!!! I was getting over confident because i got a few right

[coffeeholic]

Mike-C:

Coffeeholic:
non transport related work does not count toward the 48/60hours.

Back to law school for me!!! I was getting over confident because i got a few right

Don’t worry Mike, you are still ahead of ROG.

[rog]

Coffeeholic:
You’re not wrong, could you show ROG how that’s done regarding tacho questions?

ROG:
I saw that

Coffeeholic:
Don’t worry Mike, you are still ahead of ROG.

And that

[delboytwo]

hi Coffeeholic

Coffeeholic wrote:
non transport related work does not count toward the 48/60hours

yes it does if you have no opt out in place

If a worker is known to have a second job, an employer should ask the worker to consider signing an opt-out agreement if the total time worked is in excess of 48 hours a week. If a worker does not wish to sign an opt-out in this situation, the worker should consider reducing their hours to comply with the 48-hour limit

Working for two or more employers or another organisation
For the purposes of the Regulations, working time is restricted to work for employers for
whom a mobile worker carries out any in-scope road transport activities (i.e. work covered by
the European drivers’ hours rules). It includes both road transport activities and any other
work for such employers (for instance when a driver also works in an employer’s warehouse).
It does not include work performed for employers who are not involved in road transport
activities (for instance bar work). However, such work would count as part of the “daily
working period” for the purposes of determining compliance with the separate European
drivers’ hours rules (i.e. bar work will impact on when you can work and how much work you
can do).
Similarly, the Regulations, do not apply to workers who work for employers who undertake
some road transport activities if the worker in question is not actually involved in such
activities. In such cases, the worker would be subject to the requirements of the 1998 Working
Time Regulations.
If an employee works for two or more employers, then the weekly working time is the
combined total of the hours worked (excluding breaks, rest and periods of availability) for all
the employers. The mobile worker must tell their employer(s) in writing, of any time worked
for another employer.
Guidance on the Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations 2005
12
However, time spent on voluntary activities (e.g. driving a vehicle in a carnival/gala days)
does not count towards the working time limits. In addition, time spent performing activities
for the emergency services or Armed Forces (such as being a retained fire fighter, special
constable, and duties performed whilst being a member of the reserve forces (Territorial Army
etc)) should not count towards the limits under the Regulations.
Nevertheless, employers should bear these other activities in mind when deciding how much
work (and what type), can be performed. Workers should not do any work that would
compromise road safety or impair the health of the employee. In addition, all the rest
requirements and limits under the European drivers’ hours rules still apply.

What if a worker agrees to work longer hours?

An individual worker may agree to work more than 48 hours a week. If so, he or she should sign an opt-out agreement, which they can cancel at any time. The employer and worker can agree how much notice is needed to cancel the agreement, which can be up to three months. In the absence of an agreed notice period, the worker needs to give a minimum of seven days’ notice of cancellation.

Employers cannot force a worker to sign an opt-out. Any opt-out must be agreed to. Workers cannot be fairly dismissed or subjected to detriment for refusing to sign an opt-out.

Employers must keep a record of who has agreed to work longer hours.

so what do you make of the bits in red

in the RTD we can not opt out

and in the WTD you can if you want to and if there is no opt agreement in place the hours would count

job 1 driver works five day a week under RTD regs works 48 hours exculding brakes

job 2 burger flipper works 1 day 10 hours under WTD there is no opt out in place as its only one day

total hours for RTD and WTD 58 in one week

we know that in fact it would not be possible to do this under EU regs but this is only to explain my point on all hour would have to be counted under WTD Regs

[coffeeholic]

delboytwo:
hi Coffeeholic

Coffeeholic wrote:
non transport related work does not count toward the 48/60hours

yes it does if you have no opt out in place

Obviously, but anyone who is wanting to work a second job will have opted out surely. It’s easy to do and it would make no sense not to if they want to work a bit extra. The first bit in red covers that.

The second bit in red is from the WTD for mobile workers and refers to working for two employers under that, not when one job doesn’t fall under the RTD ( as it says further up the bit you quoted those hours don’t count.)